Page 8 of 45 FirstFirst ... 45678910111218 ... LastLast
Results 85 to 96 of 532
  1. #85
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    3,481

    Default

    No, you're right, KK. And the issue of contrecoup damage from the brain rebounding off one surface of the skull (the one that struck an object) and onto the other side of the skull (from the force of the strike) would be a major feature of the autopsy. There was none, which means she did NOT strike an object while her body was in motion. She was hit with an object. Period. This thread should put to rest all speculation about the head blow being an indirect result of some sort of fight with Patsy.

    I tend to think that Burke didn't have the strength to cause that kind of a head blow, but I really don't know for certain. Whoever hit JonBenet, meant to hurt or kill her at that moment.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  2. #86
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Not Boulder, Colorado
    Posts
    840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase

    I also agree that the linear fracture is part of the equation that can't be left out. Reading the info, it seems the original comminuted fracture led to the linear fracture, which means that the force was tremendous. So again, how did that happen on the top/side of her head without breaking/injuring her neck in a fall or throw?
    I think there was no fall or throw, thus no evidence of a fall or throw anywhere on or in the body extra to the skull fracture. I think the body was still when the blow was delivered to the head. Momentum carried the object only so far because the blow was controlled and deliberate, somewhat like one would use when cracking the top of a soft boiled egg. (Which, btw, is sometimes done with a cloth covering the egg.)

    I also think that the oddly braided hair was done in preparation for the blow. The hair entwined in the cord/handle may mean she was strung up in preparation for the blow with the arms above and behind the forward leaning head, exposing the skull and saving the face from abrasion.

    I think the linear aspect of the fracture shows where the direction of the blow came from; behind to the right of the head and on the same plane as the fracture. The object was an elongated oval in shape that had an "axe splitting" affect on the skull.

    That is how I see it.

  3. #87

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase
    Rashomon, I've posted linkds to the autopsy photo of JB's skull for you several times. Do you not want to look at it? I understand if that's the case, but it does clear up the location of the skull fractures and how serious they are.
    I'm not squeamish about autopsy pictures - I have looked at that photo many times in the past years:

    ***WARNING - graphic photo!***

    http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetskull1.jpg

    But I was not sure if it showed the front or the back of the skull (biology has never been my forte in school ).
    But comparing it to the description in the autopsy report, I can see exactly now where the wound was inflicted: on the right side of the head, near the back of the head.
    From the autopsy report:
    At the superior extension of the is area of
    hemorrhage is a linear to comminuted skull fracture which
    extends from the right occipital to posteroparietal area forward to the right frontal area across the parietal skull.
    In the posteroparietal area of this fracture is a roughly
    rectangular shaped displaced fragment of skull measuring one
    and three-quarters by one-half inch.
    'occipital' = relating to the back of the head,
    'posteroparietal' = relating to the bone covering the side of the skull (parietal bone), postero = the back region of this bone near the occipital region.
    [please Texan correct me if I've got things wrong]
    I agree it seems in the "head blow" theory, Burke is more likely to have done this. At his age, he had no ability to form intent, as he couldn't have known the true meaning of "death". That's a legal distinction already determined in law regarding minors of his age at the time.

    But there are other theories about that blow that don't include Burke, as you know.
    Imo everyone of the three Ramseys could have delivered that blow - for different reasons.
    Last edited by rashomon; March 1, 2008, 3:55 am at Sat Mar 1 3:55:19 UTC 2008.

  4. #88
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    3,481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox
    I think there was no fall or throw, thus no evidence of a fall or throw anywhere on or in the body extra to the skull fracture. I think the body was still when the blow was delivered to the head. Momentum carried the object only so far because the blow was controlled and deliberate, somewhat like one would use when cracking the top of a soft boiled egg. (Which, btw, is sometimes done with a cloth covering the egg.)

    I also think that the oddly braided hair was done in preparation for the blow. The hair entwined in the cord/handle may mean she was strung up in preparation for the blow with the arms above and behind the forward leaning head, exposing the skull and saving the face from abrasion.

    I think the linear aspect of the fracture shows where the direction of the blow came from; behind to the right of the head and on the same plane as the fracture. The object was an elongated oval in shape that had an "axe splitting" affect on the skull.

    That is how I see it.
    Are YOU saying that JonBenet was unconscious from strangling before she was hit in the head?
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  5. #89
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In the Federal Witness Protection Program
    Posts
    1,311

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase
    DeeDee and JoeJame, can you remember where that photo might be online, with the fire poker/log jammer? The reason I ask is...and don't quote me on this...it seems that once upon a time, that fire poker turned out to be a false photo...? Staged by someone? Can't really remember exactly, though, and may be mistaken, but it was discussed, so if you have the picture url handy, it might jog my or someone else's memory on this. Thanks in advance.
    I haven't saved links, but I am starting to do that, as I have been frustrated at not being able to go back and find things I know I have read. One place I remember seeing it was Ruthie's site, but as she passed away several years ago, some of the links don't work. I went there tonight and the page for the basement photos is gone, as are several other pages. I will continue to look.
    I hadn't read that the log grabber photo was faked. I'll see if I can find a site that has the photo.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  6. #90

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    I know it sounds horrible, but maybe Patsy in a blind rage took JonBenet's head between her hands and slammed it against the nearby sink ot tub? I don't think it takes much force for an adult to crack the skull of a tiny six-year-old.

    jmo
    No, it doesn't. I posted the link to a site on another board, that said that children that age can crack their skull from falling off a bike. So, if there was some force behind it, like JB being slammed against something...or slung against something, then it stands to reason, that it would bash her skull and displace it.

  7. #91

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase
    The problem with the "falling" theory as I see it is that she had no spinal injuries. To crack her skull in half in a fall, the impact would have to have been tremendous. That implies a great force of energy had to be exerted to project her at such a velocity to crack her skull like that. To suppose that she wouldn't have also sustained a neck injury during that fall seems a real stretch to me.

    Think about how fast, far, or hard her body would have to have moved to sustain such an injury. If you can explain to me how her BODY, which was about three quarters of her weight, was projected that fast and slammed to a halt by her head hitting a surface without causing damage to her neck bones, I can consider the "falling" theory. I simply can't figure out how 40 lbs of her followed her head into a surface at a fast velocity and the delicate neck bones remained unaffected from the impact of that crash. Her body would have contacted the surface AFTER her head; otherwise the head injury wouldn't have happened. The head made the first impact AT THE TOP OF THE SKULL, the body followed, propelling its weight into the surface--and the tiny neck sustained no whiplash injury?

    I'm no doctor, but I just can't see how that's possible.
    I see what you are saying about the spinal injuries. But, if the "fall" into the corner of the tub or sink, resulted from Patsy throwing her or slinging her..then it would have been with force. Children that age can crack their skull (not to the extent of JB)...from falling from a bike. If there were force behind it...it would cause some major damage.

  8. #92

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    While the golf club (as well as one of the baseball bats found in the home) could have produced this kind of injury without lacerating the skull, I have problems imagining Patsy picking up a golf club and swinging it at JonBenet. Also, this club was probably not kept in the bathroom or in JonBenet's bedroom where according to SteveThomas, the confrontation took place.
    I would associate using the golf club (or the baseball bat) more with Burke.

    jmo
    I have to agree with you on that! I have always believed that this was unintentional. For it to have been a flashlight, a bat...or even one of the dumb bell weights found in JB's room...it would have had to have been intentional. I just don't see that. I believe that Patsy loved her daughter, and would have never intentionally harmed her.

  9. #93

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase
    Here is the pic of the skull at autopsy. I separated it out of the group pictures in case you didn't want to see those.

    http://zyberzoom.com/Crackedskull.jpg

    The comminuted skull fracture is at the top of the head. I cannot envision how Patsy could have done this to JonBenet's head without damaging her neck in a "throwing" or "banging against something" theory. Remember this isn't JUST a comminuted skull fracture, but her skull was almost FULLY CRACKED IN HALF. That's a lot of force.

    Perhaps I'll just have to disagree while saying I honestly don't know the answers. I wish we had a medical examiner who would grace us in layman's terms with a complete explanation about all this.
    From looking at the skull, I can't tell what is the top, bottom or side. I have always thought that the damage was on the side, back part of the skull.

  10. #94

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heymom
    When my son hit the ground and fractured his skull, he was going perhaps 7 mph? That is a rough guess, but he had a lot of momentum and hit the ground hard, yet he got only a mild to moderate fracture with no bone punched out and ;ittle interior swelling. He had a little bleeding inside his brain, but it caused him no symptoms after the accident. I saw his CAT scan and you can see the break, but it's not horrible. He did have swelling on that side of his head. When JonBenet's skull was cracked as it was, she would have been unconscious from then on. And I would imagine her head would have been very swollen in that area.

    Having just had experience with a child getting an accidental skull fracture, I cannot believe that JonBenet's fracture was the result of an accidental toss against any surface or even a protruding object. She might have been injured from such an accident, maybe knocked out, but that crack was caused by a tremendous force. Whoever hit her meant to hurt her, maybe was angry enough to want to kill her. And, the person had the physical strength to wield an object that did the job. For myself, I have a tough time believing Patsy was that strong. I can see her losing her temper at JonBenet, and maybe being rough with her, but I can't see the head blow coming from Patsy. I know many people here don't see John as the prime suspect, but he's there for me.

    Dang, that hole looks like the shape of a putter to me. "Did you get my golf clubs?" said JR to Pam Paugh.
    First of all...I would like to say that I am glad that he wasn't hurt worse!!! I know that must have scared you to death!!

    You said that he was 14, right? How old was he when he fell from his skateboard?? If he was older than 6, then JB's skull would have been thinner...I have researched a ton of different sites on the thickness of the skull at different ages. I have said it before...sorry for repeating myself..but a 6 year old can crack their skull from falling off a bike...so imagine what some force behind that would do.

  11. #95

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heymom
    This description makes me think how fortunate we were than our son wasn't dead or severely brain damaged when he fell off his skateboard. God really just spared him. I try to remember that when he's acting like any old 14-year-old boy.


    Thank God that he is okay!!! That truly is a miracle!

  12. #96

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    I'm not a golfer either, but even if I were, I just can't see Patsy swinging a golf club or a baseball bat at her daughter in such a situation. I can see Burke doing this, but not Patsy. I can visualize her grabbing on impulse a smaller object which happened to be lying nearby, but taking a golf club or a baseball bat, aiming and swinging it at her child - I have immense difficulty imagining such a scenario.
    So do I!



Similar Threads

  1. Steven's autopsy
    By JC in forum FIRE-In-The-HOLE
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: December 6, 2005, 7:07 am, Tue Dec 6 7:07:36 UTC 2005
  2. Autopsy...
    By Tez in forum Laci Denise Rocha Peterson
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: May 25, 2003, 5:29 pm, Sun May 25 17:29:05 UTC 2003

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •