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  1. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon View Post

    But how to sort through all this? Imo we couldn't even open a 'just the facts' thread here yet because for every alleged 'fact', another 'fact' will show up contradicting the previous.

    Other examples:
    "The blood was Maddie's" vs "The blood was not from Maddie"
    "DNA tests incriminates the McCanns" vs "The DNA tests exonerates the McCanns"
    "Cadaver dogs are reliable and they did smell cadaver scent" vs. "The cadaver dog thing was a ruse by the police to trap the McCanns"

    The chaotic mass of contradictory info has only muddied the waters instead of clearing them.

    On many Madeleine forums, the discussion has strongly shifted to the McCanns themselves (pro- or anti) and away from time lines and such crucial things like weighing technical probability against non-probability.

    Maybe we could make a difference here on FFJ?

    I'd like to start with the time line.

    Imo what imo exonerates the McCanns is the narrow time frame in which they would have had to carry all this out. It is virtually impossible for them to have done it, given this time frame.
    If anyone thinks they could have done it in this time frame and how, I'd be interested in their theories.

    Also in their opinions re Murat and his possible involvement. Imo if he was involved, harld likely that he acted alone. Maybe he spied out a good moment for the kidnappers to snatch Madeleine and got paid for it? Just my speculations though.

    jmo
    Exactly why I said this is such a complicated case Rash...it is hard to tell even where to begin to discern the true "facts" of the case, but I think the time line IS the place to start.
    It's probably too late to get justice for JonBenét. Maybe it always was. But knowing where things went wrong is the first step to not going there again. **-- Alan Prendergast-Dec 21, 2006--**

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  2. #110
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    This isn't case evidence, but it's interesting all the same:-

    http://eyesforlies.blogspot.com/sear...Gerry%20McCann
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  3. #111

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    I quit posting on this case or even reading about it, not only on this thread, but in general, because of the wild media reports and mutliple sideshows being manufactured. How can we know ANYTHING for fact in such a case? About all we can depend on is the timeline, and that, I agree, is proof positive that the McCanns had nothing to do with the child's disappearance.

    After the Ramsey case, I saw that Maddie's disappearance was more than likely going to end up the same: unsolved. The local LE is in a different country, on another continent, and the language, legal, and custom issues are insurmountable for me personally to get a real sense of what the heck is going on.

    I find it painful to see very dear members of FFJ hurt over this, but we are all passionate about such injustice, so it's going to happen, I guess. I hope our resident medic has patched up the wounds from the dust up. She's good that way!

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

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    My opinions, nothing more.

  4. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I quit posting on this case or even reading about it, not only on this thread, but in general, because of the wild media reports and mutliple sideshows being manufactured. How can we know ANYTHING for fact in such a case? About all we can depend on is the timeline, and that, I agree, is proof positive that the McCanns had nothing to do with the child's disappearance.

    After the Ramsey case, I saw that Maddie's disappearance was more than likely going to end up the same: unsolved. The local LE is in a different country, on another continent, and the language, legal, and custom issues are insurmountable for me personally to get a real sense of what the heck is going on.

    I find it painful to see very dear members of FFJ hurt over this, but we are all passionate about such injustice, so it's going to happen, I guess. I hope our resident medic has patched up the wounds from the dust up. She's good that way!
    XXXSMOOCHXXX

    (Sorry about the bits of haggis in that...)
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  5. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I quit posting on this case or even reading about it, not only on this thread, but in general, because of the wild media reports and mutliple sideshows being manufactured. How can we know ANYTHING for fact in such a case? About all we can depend on is the timeline, and that, I agree, is proof positive that the McCanns had nothing to do with the child's disappearance.

    After the Ramsey case, I saw that Maddie's disappearance was more than likely going to end up the same: unsolved. The local LE is in a different country, on another continent, and the language, legal, and custom issues are insurmountable for me personally to get a real sense of what the heck is going on.

    I find it painful to see very dear members of FFJ hurt over this, but we are all passionate about such injustice, so it's going to happen, I guess. I hope our resident medic has patched up the wounds from the dust up. She's good that way!
    Nicely said KK
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  6. #114
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    Go here:-

    http://www.findmadeleine.com/ns/news/detail/?id=37

    to read Kate and Gerry's presentation to the EU Parliament.

    It's an interesting read.

    ETA - From Gerry McCann's blog re the Petition:-

    Day 345: Our visit to the European Parliament on Thursday (10th) was the culmination of several months work. Kate and I presented a written declaration (see news and support) to the parliament asking for the introduction of an EU wide missing child alert system based on the US AMBER alert system. The AMBER system has been incredibly successful in rescuing abducted children. France has adopted a similar system in the last 2 years, which has been activated 5 times with all children being recovered alive.

    An EU wide AMBER type system has widespread support. The EU commission presented draft guidance (written in conjunction with Missing Children Europe) on the introduction of such a system. In Lisbon in October last year the proposal got the informal support of the 27 member states home office/justice ministers.

    We presented the declaration to MEP’s, answered questions and then held a press conference- our first public speech since returning from Portugal. For the declaration to be taken up we need 51% of (the 785) MEP’s to sign the declaration in the next 3 months. We would urge everyone to lobby their MEP’s to sign the declaration.
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  7. #115
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    RiverRat is offline FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Left is Patsy Ramsey)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moab View Post
    I have deleted/edited a couple of posts about kites and their responses because it doesn't befit ANY of the FFJ membership to make those comments.

    I understand frustration, and I understand heat-of-the-moment, and I understand ALL of you are intelligent, wonderful, and passionate...especially about this case.

    to the "new" Maddie thread!
    It will not contain snide remarks or personal attacks against other members.

    I have patched everyone up now with band aids, Ice packs (for those who forgot to duck), and a piece of raw meat on those black eyes (take it home and grill it for dinner after the eye starts feeling better).

    I am going to review the entire thread, and perhaps make even more edits, and then I will either add to this post, or make another one.

    I would suggest all take the evening off of this thread, and return tomorrow with a renewed vow to not beat up your siblings in this wonderful FFJ Family to which you are ALL coveted members.
    Sweetheart......would you mind checking in that bag to see if my patience is in there because I am starting to think that I have lost it.
    "Don't play dumb with me, RR! You're no good at it." The Punisher

    "Although no one is anticipating a prompt resolution to this long and much-detoured case, perhaps - just perhaps - might we see one of those moments “when a chance arrow of history scores a perfect bullseye on a deserving target”? Steve Thomas 2009

    "Justice hasn't had a chance so far. Anyone who doesn't have this as their prime goal, we'll have a falling out with." Fleet White - Time Magazine

    "What happens is that evil comes in," Fleet says. "If you don't have truth, all you have are lies, then what comes in is evil. And evil just does its thing. In the Ramsey case, it just did its thing, and it's eaten up so many people."

  8. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat View Post
    Sweetheart......would you mind checking in that bag to see if my patience is in there because I am starting to think that I have lost it.
    ...It is in the top dresser drawer under your skivies!
    xoxo
    It's probably too late to get justice for JonBenét. Maybe it always was. But knowing where things went wrong is the first step to not going there again. **-- Alan Prendergast-Dec 21, 2006--**

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  9. #117
    RiverRat's Avatar
    RiverRat is offline FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Left is Patsy Ramsey)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moab View Post
    ...It is in the top dresser drawer under your skivies!
    xoxo
    Perfect......all the good stuff is right under my panties.
    "Don't play dumb with me, RR! You're no good at it." The Punisher

    "Although no one is anticipating a prompt resolution to this long and much-detoured case, perhaps - just perhaps - might we see one of those moments “when a chance arrow of history scores a perfect bullseye on a deserving target”? Steve Thomas 2009

    "Justice hasn't had a chance so far. Anyone who doesn't have this as their prime goal, we'll have a falling out with." Fleet White - Time Magazine

    "What happens is that evil comes in," Fleet says. "If you don't have truth, all you have are lies, then what comes in is evil. And evil just does its thing. In the Ramsey case, it just did its thing, and it's eaten up so many people."

  10. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat View Post
    Perfect......all the good stuff is right under my panties.
    It's probably too late to get justice for JonBenét. Maybe it always was. But knowing where things went wrong is the first step to not going there again. **-- Alan Prendergast-Dec 21, 2006--**

    ______________________
    Bring all our Missing Home www.usearchut.org
    Prayers for our military who are protecting our freedom.

  11. #119

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    From Times Online
    May 28, 2008
    Madeleine McCann's parents investigated for neglect
    Read the edited transcript of the judgment

    The parents of Madeleine McCann are being investigated for possibly neglecting their daughter on the night she disappeared from their Portuguese holiday apartment, it was revealed today.

    The first published court ruling on the Madeleine case confirms that the police inquiry covers homicide, abandonment, concealment of a corpse and abduction.

    The reference to “abandonment” suggests that Portuguese detectives are investigating if there is evidence that Kate and Gerry McCann were negligent in leaving their daughter alone on the night she was reported missing. The charge carries a maximum 10-year jail sentence.
    read entire article here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4022991.ece
    No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man. -Heraclitus Fragments c. 500 BC

  12. #120

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    From Times Online
    May 28, 2008
    Edited transcript of the judgment
    Edited judgment from the Tribunal da Relação de Évora in the investigation of Madeleine McCann
    David Brown
    Judge: Ribeiro Cardoso

    1. In the case files pending in the Public Prosecution Services in which they are investigating the disappearance of M.M. and the eventual carrying out of the crimes of abduction, homicide, exposure or abandonment of a child and concealment of a corpse, the prosecutor in charge of the case under investigation

    The Penal Procedural Code, promoted, amongst other operations, a request of the 3 national mobile telephone operators (TMN, Vodafone and Optimus) for digital support (CD or DVD) of the complete listings of telephone traffic to calls received and made in the period of time between April 28 2007 until September 9 2007, including cellular location and trace-back, as well as all calls on roaming and SMS and MMS messages and their respective content, for the following telephone numbers: (Ten telephone numbers follow)

    - Telephone number as yet unidentified which during May 2 2007 sent 14 written SMS messages to G.M. and another 4 on the day following M.M.’s disappearance.

    - The request from mobile telephone operator TMN, the dispatch on digital support (CD or DVD), the complete listing of telephone traffic referring to the calls received and carried out in the period of time between 20H00M of May 3 2007 and 12H00M of May 4 2007, including cellular location and trace-back, as also all calls on roaming and SMS and MMS messages and their respective content, of the following mobile numbers:
    Read entire article here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4023033.ece
    No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man. -Heraclitus Fragments c. 500 BC



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