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  1. #37
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    Some pages to "dig":

    From 2007, Sept, 12

    Madeleine McCann: Confusion over last hours:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ast-hours.html


    From 2007, Sept, 26

    Madeleine: What we know

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6984836.stm#link
    ...
    "The manager of the Mark Warner resort in Portugal, John Hill, said about 60 staff and guests at the complex searched until daybreak for the little girl, while police notified border police, Spanish police and airports."
    ...

    From 2007, Oct, 30

    McCanns used fund for mortgage

    http://www.channel4.com/news/article...ortgage/978647


    What really happened the night little Madeleine McCann vanished? (This story originally aired Dateline NBC on March 2, 2008.)

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23436596/
    ...
    Richard Gaisford is the chief correspondent for one of Britain’s morning news programs. He spent weeks last summer reporting from the Portuguese village.

    Richard Gaisford: "It's a very warm welcoming friendly place. And it was a place the McCanns knew well. They'd been to the resort before. The main attraction for the young parents was the resort's "award-winning" childcare."
    ...

    Interactive: McCann timeline

    http://www.channel4.com/news/article...anninteractive


    Madeleine McCann: the key questions

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2422967.ece


    From 2008, May, 05

    McCanns urged to visit Portugal for reconstruction of fateful night

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3872865.ece

    ..."The McCanns have said that they want to see the police reports so their private detectives can carry out their own investigation"
    ...

    How is it so difficult to understand that the police can't give the files to suspects? Why they need the police files if they have their own PI? Forget about the PJ, catch the perpetrator and clear yourselves once and for all.


    http://www.truthformadeleine.com/index.htm


    From 2008, May, 15: news about the inquiry

    http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/200...o-mccanns.html


    I'm a fence sitter when it comes to the couple being directly guilty of Maddie's disappearance. But they should have known better. Let the children alone for nights in a row? They were just babies, for God's sake! IMO they are guilty of neglect.

    In cases like this, there's rumors, leaks, innuendos, but the parties involved have to deal with all of it. Look at others parents of missing children: all of them are accused, their lives are torn apart and they go through hell. It's basic investigation procedure. In Maddie's case, her parents were made arguidos four months after the police had searched for the intruder. Yet they felt insulted. It's a sin to think they are capable of harming their child. Why?

    There's no clear information, and we must separate the wheat from the chaff using common sense. The problem I see is until the police files are released (it can happen next August) we can't leave the fence. All we can do is to keep asking questions and there's a lot of them that need to be answered.

    For instance, I'd like to know the timeline of that day until Maddie's disappearance. All you can find is the account of the Tapas9. When was Maddie last seen and by whom besides her family?

    What about that two sketches (the eggman) from Jane Tanner's description? That is insulting.

    Why the PJ had to go to England to "observe" the questioning of the Tapas friends by local police? The fact happened in Portugal, a sovereign country. That is insulting too.

    What exactly are the parents doing to find her? How is the fund being used? Have they hired another PI?

    Little, think about it from other perspective: the PJ files can be more trusted, not as gospel though, for can you imagine the wrath they brought to themselves from the British people and media by turning the couple suspects? It was easier for them just to "frame" another person (as the parents claim they were framed) or simply let it all fade.

    I hope people don't forget about Maddie. She needs to be found, she deserves the search for the truth of what happened to her and every effort to find her is not worthless.
    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Martin Luther King Jr.

  2. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Strange no evidence is turning up to confirm that little Maddie may be dead (?).

    Dear Elle, always ready to help. Thanks!

    This is intriguing. How come a child vanishes like that? At first, I really believed she would be found or the kidnapper (s) would call for ransom or in the worst case scenario, her body would appear. After more than a year, no clues about her, alive or dead. Unfortunately, she's not the only one.

    Rashie, many mistakes were made by everyone involved in this investigation, and I exclude no one. After Katie reported her daughter missing, the apartment was full of friends coming and going. The twins were moved to another location and were asleep throughout the commotion. It's unusual, to say the least.

    I think the investigators changed their focus after some lab results. The forensic tests were made by Portuguese and British labs and they were very slowly handed to the police.

    Another question: how is it possible that nobody besides the parents' friends saw Mr. Murat that night at the club? The staff knew him. Keep in mind it was not late at night. I'd be suspicious of him if other people claimed he was there. Even in a kidnap scenario, I don't think he's involved, or he would be in jail. For now, I think he is a bus victim.
    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Martin Luther King Jr.

  3. #39

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    Thanks Nana for the helpful links.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nana View Post
    After Katie reported her daughter missing, the apartment was full of friends coming and going. The twins were moved to another location and were asleep throughout the commotion. It's unusual, to say the least.
    Yes it is unusual. Makes you wonder. Although (if I'm informed correctly) the McCanns later had tests performed on the twins which allegedly showed that they were "never given sedatives" - would traces of sedatives still show up in a person's blood weeks after their ingestion was stopped?
    Does anyone know when those tests on the twins were performed? For it it was weeks later and not all sedatives leave traces, such tests would not mean anything.

    Another question: Where did Jane Tanner (?) say she saw the man carrying a child in a blanket? Was this right in front of the entrace door to the McCann residence? For if yes, what kidnapper woud be so bold as to carry his victim around where he could be seen so easily?
    Another question: how is it possible that nobody besides the parents' friends saw Mr. Murat that night at the club? The staff knew him. Keep in mind it was not late at night. I'd be suspicious of him if other people claimed he was there. Even in a kidnap scenario, I don't think he's involved, or he would be in jail. For now, I think he is a bus victim.
    Good point about no one besides the tapas party people claiming to have seen Murat.
    Does Murat have 'arguido' status also?
    Last edited by rashomon; May 25, 2008, 5:49 am at Sun May 25 5:49:54 UTC 2008.

  4. #40

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    Informative site with regular news updates: http://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/Hot+Topic...deleine+McCann


    Ultimatum to the McCanns:

    http://www.24horasnewspaper.com/tota...o=2851&link=09

    The article is in Portuguese.

    Here is a link to an online translation into English:
    (post # 282):

    http://www.boards.320sycamore.com/sh...9818#post59818

  5. #41
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    Thanks for your links too, Rashie.
    The main question here is why the couple don't provide a timeline for the day of Maddie's disappearance. This is crucial, this is where to start the search for her. This isn't under any kind of "secrecy". Were they being stalked as they claim they were? If so, how could they left the children alone after being aware of it?

    From 2007, Sept, 23

    McCanns deny 'missing' hours

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...013933,00.html


    I'm not sure if they tested the twins for sedatives. This issue was brought to light on August, so it would be too late to do anything about this matter. All I remember is the parents denied doing so in an interview. And they were offended by the question...

    From 2007, Nov, 16

    McCann friend tells of abduction

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7098390.stm

    Her first description was about a blond man. Six months later he had brown hair. Jane Tanner is "partner" (?) of Russel O'Brien who told a story about their child being sick that evening. She was even vomiting and he asked the staff to change the sheets, but this they say this never happened.

    I wonder why someone under these circumstances, knowing all the children, (including hers) were left alone in the rooms, would not think it was strange to see an unknown man carrying a child away from the apartments? And yet she did nothing. She could have asked him about the time, the weather, whatever, and reported it to the resort. She only thought about the suspect one hour late, when Maddie had gone. IMO, she's lying through her teeth.

    From 2008, March, 24

    Madeleine abduction suspect hopes to be cleared

    http://www.independent.ie/world-news...d-1325871.html

    The couple were furious about the leak of part of their testimony to the PJ. In the morning of May, 3rd, Maddie asked them where they were the night before when she and Sean were crying for them. I heard this story told by Katie herself in a documentary. I wanted to cry at that moment and to shake that "mom" to wake her up. She said it was just a remark and Maddie went on to play with his siblings so she never answered her daughter. Despite that, they kept their plans to dinner without the children. Add this to the "being stalked" situation and ask yourself what kind of "responsible parent" would not be worried.

    It's very interesting for me to be able to read English and Portuguese reports on this case. And let me tell you, the press battle which begun when the police made the parents suspects was not pretty. It was dangerous, it bordered xenophobia. Someone out there is responsible for this beautiful child's disappearance, but it is not the Portuguese people as a whole neither Portugal as a country.

    Keep your babies close.
    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Martin Luther King Jr.

  6. #42

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    Nana,
    Jane Tanner's story bothered me too for the same reasons you mentioned.

    Little
    No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man. -Heraclitus Fragments c. 500 BC

  7. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nana View Post
    Thanks for your links too, Rashie.
    The main question here is why the couple don't provide a timeline for the day of Maddie's disappearance. This is crucial, this is where to start the search for her. This isn't under any kind of "secrecy". Were they being stalked as they claim they were? If so, how could they left the children alone after being aware of it?

    From 2007, Sept, 23

    McCanns deny 'missing' hours

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...013933,00.html


    I'm not sure if they tested the twins for sedatives. This issue was brought to light on August, so it would be too late to do anything about this matter. All I remember is the parents denied doing so in an interview. And they were offended by the question...

    From 2007, Nov, 16

    McCann friend tells of abduction

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7098390.stm

    Her first description was about a blond man. Six months later he had brown hair. Jane Tanner is "partner" (?) of Russel O'Brien who told a story about their child being sick that evening. She was even vomiting and he asked the staff to change the sheets, but this they say this never happened.

    I wonder why someone under these circumstances, knowing all the children, (including hers) were left alone in the rooms, would not think it was strange to see an unknown man carrying a child away from the apartments? And yet she did nothing. She could have asked him about the time, the weather, whatever, and reported it to the resort. She only thought about the suspect one hour late, when Maddie had gone. IMO, she's lying through her teeth.

    From 2008, March, 24

    Madeleine abduction suspect hopes to be cleared

    http://www.independent.ie/world-news...d-1325871.html

    The couple were furious about the leak of part of their testimony to the PJ. In the morning of May, 3rd, Maddie asked them where they were the night before when she and Sean were crying for them. I heard this story told by Katie herself in a documentary. I wanted to cry at that moment and to shake that "mom" to wake her up. She said it was just a remark and Maddie went on to play with his siblings so she never answered her daughter. Despite that, they kept their plans to dinner without the children. Add this to the "being stalked" situation and ask yourself what kind of "responsible parent" would not be worried.

    It's very interesting for me to be able to read English and Portuguese reports on this case. And let me tell you, the press battle which begun when the police made the parents suspects was not pretty. It was dangerous, it bordered xenophobia. Someone out there is responsible for this beautiful child's disappearance, but it is not the Portuguese people as a whole neither Portugal as a country.

    Keep your babies close.
    Do you have a source for Jane Tanner's alleged earlier claim that it was a "blond man" who carried Madeleine away.
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  8. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon View Post
    Thanks Nana for the helpful links.


    Yes it is unusual. Makes you wonder. Although (if I'm informed correctly) the McCanns later had tests performed on the twins which allegedly showed that they were "never given sedatives" - would traces of sedatives still show up in a person's blood weeks after their ingestion was stopped?
    Does anyone know when those tests on the twins were performed? For it it was weeks later and not all sedatives leave traces, such tests would not mean anything.

    Another question: Where did Jane Tanner (?) say she saw the man carrying a child in a blanket? Was this right in front of the entrace door to the McCann residence? For if yes, what kidnapper woud be so bold as to carry his victim around where he could be seen so easily?

    Good point about no one besides the tapas party people claiming to have seen Murat.
    Does Murat have 'arguido' status also?
    The twins hair was tested. It wasn't a blood test and Calpol isn't a sedative.
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  9. #45
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    I am very sad to see this thread turn into little more than tabloid gossip being discussed as though it were fact.

    FFJ is better than that IMO.
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  10. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Having a British Prime Minister as a close friend comes in handy, I guess. The same courtesy is not given to every missing child, as we all know.

    Child trafficking is all over the place these days, Little, and for tourists travelling abroad with small children, they should keep this in mind, if not, they are very foolish people.
    Do you have a source for Gordon Brown being a "close friend" of the McCann's? I didn't know they'd ever met.
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  11. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nana View Post
    Here is the link to the video I mentioned. There are thousands of them, but this one made me think, it has a different approach.

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRvgK6M2_7Q

    The PJ is holding the case files, they won't turn them into public record because this is an ongoing investigation. I'm not an expert in this issue, but there's something called "secrecy" in the Portuguese law. The leaks (wherever they came from) are very little compared to the cases we see outside Portugal, so I think it works, in a way.

    Jay, I watch the BBC here and I like it. The other ones you mentioned I don't remember to have watched neither when I lived in London many moons ago. Are they all connected or independent?
    To me it seems that BBC restrained its broadcast of this case a lot. I thought they were making a big event to mark the one year milestone but I didn't see any of the celebrities who was on board at the beginning to speak up. This has a meaning, open for everyone's interpretation.

    It was published that they made two months of their mortgage using the fund, but you must know better than I do about this. There are many people who didn't like it at all. It's not a matter of condition to donate, it's implicit that the fund would be used in the search for the little girl. This doesn't include to support the parents needs. At some point I saw an on line petition to freeze the fund in lights of this happenings. I'm not cruelly suggesting anything, far away from it, and I hope they can find peace some day. I'm just expressing my opinions about what is public record.

    I can't provide a link from the top of my head right now, but I read that a few days ago there was a poll about the case and only 30% of the British people believe the parents are innocent. That's a huge change for them.

    I can't comment on the Shannon case for I know nothing about it but I always have a problem with this kind of comment about how innocent people should behave. We saw this in the Ramsey and Peterson cases, and I think each person is unique. There's no book of behavior rules for this kind of situation, but there's always common sense. It's not looking at one tree that one can see the forest.

    You can be right, Elle. But they should have been warier for being in a strange country. There's no excuse for letting the children alone and not only for that night. Repeated pattern easy to follow. Don't you think it's strange they point the finger at the PJ and don't accuse Mark Werner for their apparent lack of security? I do.
    I'd love to see that link and see how it compares with the poll I am aware of. It clearly can't be a British poll since such a poll would be unlawful here.

    I am aware of a poll where one question asked whether people thought the McCanns were "completely innocent of any wrongdoing - including leaving the children alone" and 30% responded yes. That's NOT the same thing as you are saying of course so it must be a different poll....
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  12. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Yes, it is rather strange the Ocean Club hasn't commented on this tragic case, Nana. I think out of respect for little Madeleine McCann having gone missing on their premises, the least they could have done was make some statement about being sorry it happened at their Club and hope the little girl would be returned safely.

    The Ocean Club could also have stressed the importance of not leaving a child unguarded and encouraged parents to use the child care facilities which are available on the premises. This is the annoying factor for me, that these Services were readily available and not used by the McCanns.
    So you would have been happier if the McCanns had used the baby listening service which was offered by the resort? Are you aware that this service involves someone patrolling the outside of the apartments listening for a crying child? That they don't go into the apartments and check the children and that if the McCanns had used it, they may not have discovered Madeleine was missing until possibly several hours later than they did?

    Baby listening services are common place in Europe. If you don't believe me, Google it and see.
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission



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