Members' Theories

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by rashomon, Mar 14, 2008.

  1. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Post your theories and time lines here!

    I have always been an RDI, but I'm a fence-sitter as to what triggered the tragic events on that night.

    - Was it parental rage over a wetting/soiling accident?

    - Was it parental rage over JonBenet's refusal to go to bed? Was it both?

    - Did Patsy catch John molesting his daughter, furiously yank her away from him, and, accidentally or on purpose, slam her head against the wall?

    - Did JonBenet threaten John to tell Mommy and he lost his nerves, silencing her for good? This is the least likely scenario imo, since the forensic evidence implicates Patsy Ramsey as the main stager of the scene, and I can't imagine she would have covered up for John if he had both molested and killed their daughter.

    - Was Burke involved in some way? Theoretically possible, but not very likely imo.

    Whatever happened in the Ramsey home on that fatal night, the Ramseys covered it up. This is what the circumstantial evidence indicates. Who would they have covered up for? Only for one of their own.


    Before posting my theory, some general remarks:

    A theory should include and explain the forensic evidence found at the crime scene. It should also exclude impossible scenarios. For example, it makes no sense to place a John Doe at the crime scene if this John Doe had an ironclad alibi which shows he was hundreds of miles away from Boulder at the time of the crime.
    The most complicated issue in the JBR case for me is whether she had been the victim of chronic sexual abuse or not. For if yes, many questions will arise:

    Who was her chronic sexual abuser?
    Was the abuser also the killer? (not necessarily)
    Was JonBenet's death connected to the chronic abuse? (not necessarily)

    One gets many variables in such a scenario, and another big problem is that that even the experts seem to disagree with each other whether there was chronic sexual abuse or not. I've been wavering back and forth on this issue ever since I've been studying this case (and in a way probably always will), and although I do have a second theory where sexual abuse is taken into account, unless this has been definitely cleared up (I don't think it ever will), the most plausible theory imo is Patsy snapping and losing it in a short moment of rage because JonBenet, by whatever she did, made her mother fly off the handle.


    My time line of events:


    On the way home from the Whites' party, JonBenet falls asleep for a short time in the car but when the family arrives home, she wakes up again. The short sleep has recharged her "energy" batteries, and therefore she is in no mood go to bed on that night. In addition, it is Christmas, which provides additonal excitement for JonBenet.
    When they get home, there is some milling around by all. Patsy goes upstairs to do some packing, but JonBenet, after going to the toilet to pee, goes downstairs again, looks at her presents in the living room and also goes into the kitchen where she sees a bowl of pineapple on the table. She grabs some with her fingers and eats it.
    Some time passes, John and Burke are already in bed, but Patsy is still busy preparing for tomorrow's trip. JonBenet finally goes into her room, and although Patsy tells her quite a few times to get ready for bed, JonBenet doesn't really listen to her mother. Athough she has started undressing herself and slipped out of her back velvet pants, she runs arond in her size 4-6 underwear without putting on her pajamas.
    Patsy is not in a good mood today. She feels tired, exhausted and stressed-out from always juggling too many balls at once. She has had some glasses of wine at the Whites' party, not much, but her tolerance to alcohol has decreased since the heavy chemo which she said did a number on her liver. Two trips to prepare and a pageant immediately afterward, her approaching 40th birthday, the alcohol, all are stress-factors.


    Pineapple stimulates digestion, and when Patsy, increasingly exasperated because JonBenet is still not in bed, enters her room, she sees that the child has soiled her underwear. And this triggers Patsy's rage. It is the last straw which pushes her over the edge. The blood alcohol level in her body is just high enough to unleash her aggression. She furiously drags JonBenet into the bathroom, and her rough handling leaves marks on the child's body. She vigorously cleans Jon Benet, and when the child protests vehemently, maybe also hitting and kicking back at her mother, Patsy loses it completely: she either hits JonBenet with an object (I don't believe it was the flashlight), or slams her head against the bathroom sink. One brief moment where Patsy lost control, and irreparable damage was done. Patsy, in total shock over what happened, feels JonBent's head and realizes there is an indentation in the skull. JonBenet has fallen into a deep coma instantly and Patsy is convinced that she is dead.

    She runs to John, and on the verge of a nervous breakdown, tells him what happened. She is absolutely hysterical about not wanting to turn herself in to the police, and John, in a mixture of pity and own self-interest, promises to cover up for her. The damage is already done, nothing will bring their daughter back to life they think, and they decide to stage a scene to save what is left from the rest of the family. After all, there is Burke to think of, and they want to spare him the horrific experience of having his mother exposed in public and go to jail because she killed his little sister in a rage.
    But John doesn't want to get too involved in the staging. For he is not at all sure Patsy will get away with it, and so the less he gets involved, the better for himself should the police arrest Patsy after all.
    He agrees to carry JonBenet down into the basement though. JonBenet is to be removed as far as possible from Burke who might wake up. When going downstairs, John sees a chair standing in front of the train room/hobby room door, so he goes through the adjacent door into the boiler room. He later used the chair as an element in his concocted story, suggesting an intruder put it there. Patsy tries to stage a bizarre sexual predator scenario intended to point away from the parents. She takes a paintbrush from the tote, leaving some of her jacket fibers there.
    But as soon as she has inflicted a jab in JB's vagina with the pointed end, she breaks off immediately. She can't go on. She just can't do it. She also panicks because the wound bleeds, but I don't think at that moment she realizes that the child can't yet have been dead.
    She frantically gets some cloth and wipes her down, and, as if to undo her deed in her own mind, decides to redress JonBenet. She runs upstairs and begs John, who has remained upstairs in case Burke wakes up, to help her. She can't put JonBenet's soiled size 4-6 Wednesday Bloomies on her again, but gets an idea: she will replace this pair with a Wednesday pair of the set which she bought for JonBenet's cousin Jenny, and hide the rest of the set somewhere. At that moment she is not aware that those other panties are far too large, she takes the Wednesday pair and the longjohns and begs her husband to put it on JonBenet because at that stage she is on the verge of dissolving into a total mess. While John is putting on the size 12-14 Bloomies on JonBenet, fibers from his shirt get transferred to the underwear.


    No doubt John with his knowledge of knots would have been able to stage a better scene with the ligatures than Pasty, but John does not want to get involved in this. Part of his refusal to get more involved may also have been aggressive feelings toward Patsy - after all, it was she who killed his daughter. Imo this was also the reason why he later didn't go over to Patsy to comfort her. He was unable to fake the grieving husband convincingly, and his true feelings shone through.
    Once JonBenet's body is redressed, Patsy pulls herself together a little. She realizes John won't help her further, so she has to finish this. Her eye catches the paintbrush which is still on the floor. She breaks off both the pointed and the bristled end. The pointed end was never found - I believe she crushed it with her foot and later flushed the shards down the toilet.
    She ties a clumsy slip knot around the neck, tying an additional loop into the knot which serves no purpose at all. The ligature fabric is soft flat nylon, therefore the double-loop slip knot locks quite easily. With a knot already locked, one doesn't need a handle with cord around a stick. The remaining cord wrapped around the stick is done for mere staging purposes to suggest a scenario as bizarre as possible.
    While she is fumbling with the cord, more fibers from her jacket end up in the wrappigs of the garrote handle.
    The cord around the neck cuts off JonBenet's last oyxygen supply, and while she is lying face-down in front of the wine cellar, she finally dies, shedding post-mortem urine afterward. But Patsy is not aware of this. She thinks JonBenet died right after the head blow.
    She then fashions wrist ligatures which are so loosely done that later one had already come off JonBenet's wrists when John "found" her in the basement. She also leaves a far too big space of cord between the ligatures. Maybe it was because she wanted to create a scenario suggesting sexual bondage, but maybe it was just because she had no idea how restraining ligatures are effectively tied (with the hands close together).
    She puts a piece duct tape on JonBenets mouth - another element of staging.
    She gets a blanket from the dryer, wraps it around the body and carries it into the wine cellar. As she carries JonBenet's body, again fibers from her jacket get transferred to the blanket. One of JonBenet's nightgowns was adhering to the blanket through static cling, but Patsy does not see this.
    She goes upstairs and tells John where she put JonBenet's body.


    A faked ransom note is concocted intended to later 'explain' the dead body in the basement to investigators. It should look like a 'kidnapping gone wrong'. Patsy also writes the note as a cathartic act to undo the crime in her own mind (like the CASKU experts said) - to remove herself from her deed, so to speak. The ransom note is written in the kitchen which they illuminate only with the flashlight. Patsy writes the note without any help from John. Maybe he thinks she with her journalistic training would do a better job than he, but maybe he also conveys to her "you have made your bed, you must lie in it. I won't turn you in to the police but you can't expect me to do too much for you either."
    Patsy's mind does not function in an analytical manner as she is writing the note. She throws everything into the mix in the frantic hope that at least something will be swallowed.
    It is also Patsy who calls the police. John thinks she will make a good drama queen performance on the phone so he lets her make the call.
    Patsy calls her friends over to use them as a shield between herself and the police. The more confusion there is in that house, the better. The more friends will attend to her, throwing up, breaking down, the fewer questions the police will be able to ask. Patsy knows she has nothing to fear from the threats in the note because she wrote it herself.
    But Patsy has forgotten one important thing: to stage a point of entry. Hence John'a later attempt at damage control, claiming he had seen the basement window open. He also tried to suggest an 'inside job' by someone who had a key to the Ramsey home (LHP for example).
    John claiming that JonBenet's wrists were 'tightly bound' was damage control too. He, when 'finding' JonBent's body at 1 p.m. on Dec 26th, probably got a shock when he saw what a lousy job Patsy had done, so he claimed having tried to undo the 'tight' ligatures.


    Imo nothing in this crime was premeditated. It was a rage attack followed by obstruction of justice.
    ____________________________________

    Rashomon

    The first time I posted this theory was on August 6/2007, which would have been JonBenet's 17th birthday. As a result of a later discussion on certain medical aspects of the case (the strangulation in all probability happened very quickly after the head blow), meanwhile I'm not at all sure anymore if the stager of the scene really thought JonBenet was already dead.

    [I also have two alternative theories (not yet posted) which take posssible chronic sexaul abuse into account, and another one (the least likely imo) which involves Burke. But the common denomiator of all these theories is that whatever happend to JonBenet on that fatal night - imo it was NOT a planned crime, but a tragic chain of events resulting in homicide].

    JMO
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2008
  2. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    I don't think it was planned either. More like ordained.
     
  3. heymom

    heymom Member

    I wonder where the previous abuse came into it? And I also think that if John had not been involved, he might have been more upset at different stages of the following day. He was as cold as ice, more impatient to get things wrapped up than a freaked-out grieving father.

    I take the opposite side from you. I am not sure who cracked JonBenet's skull, but I think John was involved in every aspect of the cover-up, and that there might not have even been a cover-up if he hadn't had a lot to lose from JonBenet being treated at a hospital.
     
  4. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Like I said, I have an alternative theory (not yet posted) which takes possible chronic sexual abuse into account. The theory I have posted here is merely to be understood as one possible theory, not as a theory excluding others.

    The main problem I have with a "John was involved in every aspect of the cover-up" theory is why he would let a distraught Patsy do so much of the staging then. For it was she who wrote the ransom note, and the fiber evidence also implicates her as the one who fashioned the garrote and put the duct tape on JonBenet's lips.
     
  5. heymom

    heymom Member

    To take the rap in case the cops saw through the staging.
     
  6. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    All these years and multiple theories?
     
  7. AMES

    AMES Member

    Thanks Rashie..

    I just wanted to thank you for that well-thoughtout post. It was almost as if I were THERE!! EERIE!!!! You spent alot of time posting this, and it was well thought out.

    Maybe I missed it...but, I don't recall reading how you think that John's shirt fibers ended up in JB's crotch area, if Patsy is the one that wiped her down. I am torn between your scenario of Patsy not being able to go through with the paintbrush insertion and wiping the blood from her....and John or Patsy wiping her down simply to remove any fibers or DNA from that area of her body, and the blood was wiped up with it...of course.
     
  8. AMES

    AMES Member

    And they say that there is no such thing as a perfect murder...
     
  9. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    I originally was JDI too. When reading about the case for the first time in a Gerrman magazine (it only said JonBenet had been sexually abused and killed in her own home), my first thought was that the father probably did it.
    But this was before I knew that Patsy had written the note and her jacket fibers had been found in incriminating locations.

    If John was the offender who both molested and killed JonBenet, I find it very hard to imagine that Patsy would cover up for him. How do you think he got her to cover it up? After killing JonBenet with the golf club in the basement, what did John tell Patsy?
     
  10. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    I tried to explain it this way:
    Ames, I too am always torn between several possible scenarios. Yours makes perfect sense imo.
    And maybe it was Patsy, and not John, who carried JonBenet down into the basement, and that was when she heard John scream in agony when he saw the body there shortly after she told him "she's gone" (= she's dead). Your post on that gave me a lot of food for thought. I think I'll build it in and modify my theory. I've done this several times - for such theories should not be etched in stone, but be in a constant process of evolving. They can only be speculative by nature - and while the JBR case is a slam dunk case against the parents in terms of their implication in the cover-up of the crime, the question "What happened in that house which led to JonBenet's homicide?" is very complex and intricate.

    The fiber evidence implicates John in the staging too. Unless Patsy used his shirt to wipe JonBenet's body. Not a very likely scenario imo.
     
  11. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    The only big question about this case is who did what between John and Patsy. To answer that question just look at the evidence and look for patterns in behavior. Patsy had identity problems with JonBenet, she had border crossing problems, she used JonBenet, she had a family history of pathological narcissism, she was a writer and attempted the visual arts.

    John had none of these things except maybe his own personal brand of narcissism.

    Unfortunately, some of Patsy's behavior that should be an indication of her personality/identity disorder is often taken for talent or eccentricity. And the Munchausen by proxy driven display of JonBenet in the pageants is seen as acceptable behavior.

    Fortunately, there is a lot of research material on people that cannot or will not distinguish between their inner fantasy lives and the outer real world who commit murder and mahem in an atempt to realize their fantasies through destructive acts thinking they are creating something, that forms a basis for understanding Patsy's crime.

    I say Patsy did it all and did it alone. My theory is the only one that puts the rn and what was done to JonBenet in the same catagory; creative acts by a psychotic mind.
     
  12. heymom

    heymom Member

    I wasn't really saying I *believe* that John used the golf club, only giving an example of what a "Ramsey Clue Game" would look like. And I go back and forth about John's doing the actual act, but what comes to me is the actual FORCE of the blow. There was a crime last week, here in the city where I live, and a woman was killed when someone came up behind her and hit her with a baseball bat. A man swung the bat, and the news story said her skull was cracked in half. I immediately thought of JonBenet, and how forceful that blow she took must have been, in order to actually crack her skull in half. And I cannot imagine Patsy, angry or not, delivering such a blow. Nor can I imagine little, weak Burke having such an effect either. That leaves John.

    And the sexual abuse remains first and foremost in my mind as the reason why medical help wasn't called for JonBenet that night, and why the staging was set up in the first place. Did Patsy know about the sexual abuse? We'll never know.

    As for how he would get Patsy to write the note, how about threats of violence, or of him telling the law that *she* did it, not him? Patsy wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer and it would have been easy for John to convince her that she was in as much trouble as he was.

    I just don't know, and we'll likely never know what happened.
     
  13. heymom

    heymom Member

    But why would John protect her and continue to lie for her over all these years? Are you telling me he had nothing personal to lose but still stuck with Patsy? If he kept her out of jail to protect Burke, how was he to know she was safe around Burke?
     
  14. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    My theory is about Patsy not John. But I think John showed the signs of confusion and icredulity and then self delusion. He was motivated by SELF protection. He clung to the intruder theory and found comfort in victimhood. His self delusion included Patsy by definition not design. His delusional state of mind has been buffered by the lack of an effective confrontation with the law. He may well have approached the accident cover-up theory but likely he has not considered it to any degree. In DOI he emotionally rejects what comes close to my theory and I take him at his word there.

    Ironically, John ends up using Patsy in his self delusion, not protecting her. Patsy was used by Nedra, Patsy used JonBenet, and Patsy ends up getting used by John.

    Patsy's bid for victory was never realized. She lived in a cycle of use, misuse and abuse. In the end she used God.
     
  15. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    But since John was present in the home when the homicide occurred, you can't take him out of the equation.
    John was not delusional at all. When asked if he would take a polygraph, his flat-out answer was: "No." What more do you need to conclude that John KNEW what had happened in the Ramsey home on that night and helped to cover it up?
    And don't forget that his shirt fibers found in JonBenet's underwear are also very incriminating.

    John clung to the "Patsy and I have got to save our hide" strategy. That was his self-protection imo.

    What passage in DOI exactly are you referring to?
    Used God for what ?
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2008
  16. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    Yes, I can and do take him out of the equation. Nothing to stop me. I love these rebuttals of yours; "John was not delusional at all." How convincing. He said no to the poly to remain in as much control as he could. He was guilty of obstruction. imo.

    And please state the source of these fibers, FOAA.
     
  17. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    This is a classic ploy of the JDI'ers and IDI'ers and BDI'ers: point out the tiniest things and say Aha! When there is a mountain of evidence against Patsy.
     
  18. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Thanks for proving my point. For a person guilty of obstruction of justice is consciously trying to conceal evidence.

    Re the fibers: John Ramsey was confronted with the incriminating fiber evidence against him in one of the official interviews, in the presence of his lawyer Lin Wood.
     
  19. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    What point is that? I said John deluded himself about the intruder. He found the body earlier than 1pm and played victim when he brought the body up. At those points he obstructed justice. And the interview does not count as a source for the fibers found. That has to come from an official report by LE.
     
  20. AMES

    AMES Member

    I also think that there was way too much staging and planning AND THINKING FAST involved, for Patsy to have done all of this by herself. I think that she had to have had some help. I believe that Patsy's..."she's gone"...probably meant..."she's dead", too. When my sister called me to tell me that my mom had died...she said..."mother is gone". I think that Patsy slipped and made a big BOO-BOO...when she said that after she found the note, that she yelled for John and John came DOWNSTAIRS (as I have said before, I think that he was getting ready for bed, or already IN the bed), she said..."she's gone, she's gone"...and that John screamed when he CAME UP FROM the basement. Now, we have to consider that she is talking about after she found the NOTE, not after he "found" the body. I believe that the way that she told it...is just exactly the way that it happened.

    Patsy yelled for John, after realizing that she had caused a horrendous injury to JB, and thought that she was dead. He came downstairs from the bedroom, she told him what she had done..and where she placed the body...in the basement, (away from Burke's view) IMO....at the bottom of the stairs. After telling John what happened, he ran down the stairs and saw JB lying on the floor at the bottom of the stairs. She was unconscious..he probably checked her pulse...but, her heartbeat was too weak to detect one (I have posted before that this happened to my mom, when she was really sick...the NURSES could not detect a pulse...and she was alive and talking, although very weak). He thought that she was dead, just as Patsy thought she was....he ran screaming up the stairs. And it was probably more like a scream followed by the words...."WHAT THE H*LL HAVE YOU DONE?!?!?". I believe that he helped a little in the staging...but, not all of it. Patsy did the majority of the work. I think that John...although reluctantly... also helped her with the ransom note. I believe that she convinced him that it was an accident...which I believe is true. She was probably crying and blubbering...and BEGGING him to help save her butt. Because he knew that she had cancer...and probably would live too much longer..and because he didn't want Burke to be without a mom...sooner rather than later...he helped her. I believe...also...that this is the reason that he was so distant from her that morning. It is just not normal for parents of ...a then....kidnapped child, to not speak to one another...and not be in the same room.
     
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