20/20...In hindsight....

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by koldkase, Sep 9, 2008.

  1. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Just rereading these old articles, and now that we know Patsy so well, some of the parallel behaviors she exhibited in her life just jumped out at me. So I thought, for your consideration, you might have some "AHA!" moments as well:


     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2008
  2. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    "When I came home from the hospital, there they were, standing in the garage with a nightgown for me," Justice said. "That's the kind of person she is -- always putting somebody else ahead of herself.''

    See that line right there? There you have one of the most significant bricks in the wall of guilt that can be seen on a character-testimony basis against Patsy. For on the morning of December 26th, Patricia Ann Ramsey, for seemingly the first time in her life, put herself before the single person who truly needed to be put first -- JonBenet. That act should speak volumes to anyone who requires proof of how Patsy could change overnight into a person capable of dealing out death. She did change. Even to people who thought her the very soul of innocence, they should admit that the Patsy Ramsey of December 26th, 1996 was not the Patsy Ramsey of the days before, and that includes especially the Patsy Ramsey who supposedly thought she would be getting JonBenet back from a kidnapper soon. That Patsy was not putting JonBenet ahead of herself, that Patsy was doing nothing to help assemble the ransom or answer the phones or even help control the very friends she herself turned into an uncontrollable, panicked herd.

    The light bulb pops up even brighter over my head upon having this article refresh my perspective. I find in it the seeds of the reason why Fleet in particular was brought over to the house. As John Ramsey had said in his 1998 investigative interview, he had already known Fleet to be a man prone to easy panic and rash emotion. Surely John told Patsy about the anecdote involving the near-crash of John's boat into a Charlevoix marina wall, if Patsy herself had not been witness to it. If Patsy was guilty of JonBenet's death, and wanted to muddy up the crime scene more than it already had been, she had to have stored in her encyclopedic knowledge of her friends that Fleet would be a perfect patsy, so to speak, because he could be counted on to become emotional and in doing so also become a forensic contaminant beyond compare.

    (This might also explain why the Stines were not called, even though they lived closer than all the other Ramsey friends. As we have seen for ourselves, Susan Stine can be an awfully cool cucumber, and the last thing Patsy needed on that morning would have been a person actually capable of keeping her head and wits about her and possibly picking up on clues which would then point right back at Patsy.)
     
  3. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Yes, Why Nut, you have put your finger on the personal testimony Patsy's friends gave of her character that I find most intriguing. And you have expressed it right on point, as well.

    I really believe that Patsy Ramsey was always the woman capable of ice cold action when it served her goals. I think she was the consummate actor, her skills honed in practicing her dramatic interpretation, with which she won state and national awards in high school and at the Miss American competition.

    This really stuck out for me, from the first article: the "gathering" of family and friends in a "crisis" situation, when Beth died. Sound familiar?

     
  4. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    This is an excerpt from Patsy's second interview with LE, the one with Tom Haney in Boulder, arranged by DA Hunter's Office and with his detectives as interrogators, not BPD detectives. Notice here, in her '98 interview with Haney, how Patsy pauses at times. When she changes something AFTER a pause--like the pronoun "we" becomes "I"--or her words/explanations following her pauses are disconnected and disjointed, or she "OVER EXPLAINS" what follows, she's hiding something or lying, trying to conceal something and afraid she's revealed something incriminating, gotten off "script" or slipped up.

    Mike Kane said Patsy appeared to him to be less than forthcoming in her interviews. This is why: professional investigators have years of experience and training with people trying to "get their stories straight". If Patsy was working that hard to make sure she didn't "slip up", then she was hiding something. What parent does that in the investigation of her child's brutal murder?




    You know, when looking at Patsy's telling of this story, she seems to lose her composure the most when "John" is present in the scene. Am I imagining that?

    Also, she seems to know a lot about what the ransom note threatened by the point she's waiting at the door for LE, when she in fact said more than once she didn't read the note in full before she called LE. She has never said in any telling of the story, to my knowledge, she read the ransom note in full before LE arrived.

    Well, that's more time than I meant to spend on this. And more than most will spend looking at it. I simply will always be in awe of how many people it took to make excuses for Patsy Ramsey to keep her out of court on charges involving the murder of JonBenet.
     
  5. heymom

    heymom Member

    "She was doing well, she was happy, she was pretty."

    Here again, we see the vanity, the inappropriate focus on looks. Who cares if Beth had been "pretty?" Why do these people care so much about appearances?? Shallow, stupid, vain.

    "Trusting people, who left the side door unlocked in Boulder so their children's friends could come and go."


    So why did John have to break the basement window to get into the house that day...???

    "Patsy shared that lack of pretention. Even her closest friends knew her for years before learning she had been Miss West Virginia..."


    Really??? Patsy??? You must be thinking of some other Patsy.


    "During that event, Patsy became aware of an uncomfortable swelling in her abdomen. She began consulting doctors, first in West Virginia and finally in Atlanta, where she ended up hospitalized faced with a terrifying and unexpected diagnosis: ovarian cancer.
    Patsy turned to some of her closest friends: Bill and Carole Simpson, Gil and Jayne Kloster.
    "Nobody's telling me what's going on,'' she told Gil. "I'm frightened. Will you come and be with me?''
    Within a day, Patsy underwent a hysterectomy.

    Gil and Jayne Kloster of Atlanta got to know Patsy Ramsey when they suffered a death in the family. "Losing a child and burying a child is about the hardest thing anyone will ever do in their life," Patsy told Jayne.

    "She called me, and she was crying,'' Carole Simpson said. "I stayed with her the night before the surgery. She said, 'I've got to live for my children.' That's all she said, over and over and over.''


    You notice there is no mention of John in this section. Where was John when his wife was undergoing major surgery?


    "It was a time for intense faith, for optimism, and for random acts of kindness. One of the women undergoing the NIH treatment at the same time as Patsy didn't survive, and her family didn't have money for a funeral.

    "John came forward with the money,'' said his brother, Jeff. "But it's not so much that he did it. It's that nobody knew about it. I even heard it secondhand. I had to ask him if it was true.'' "



    Yet John threw his closest friends, the Whites, in front of law enforcement as suspects for JonBenet's murder. He had no qualms about that. He also cast suspicion on their housekeeper, the son of the neighbor across the street, and anyone else he could think of to keep the focus off of himself and Patsy. Touching, John, very touching.



    "Brady only worked for the Ramseys for two years, but she kept in touch and shared Patsy Ramsey's excitement when daugher JonBenet -- a French derivative for her father's name, John Bennett -- was born Aug. 6, 1990."

    This is not a "French derivative." It is nothing French except pretension, and naming a girl with both of her father's names stuck together is pretty sick.


    "And Patsy Ramsey instilled her passion for beauty pageants in JonBenet. The two had become a fixture on the pageant tour. JonBenet wore elaborate costumes, sophisticated makeup and dazzled judges with her presentations, all under her mother's tutelage."


    Woops. Wasn't it supposed to have been JonBenet's interest in pageants that got Patsy interested again?? Big slip there.



    "The worst moment of my life was when she was missing, but once she was found, it made me feel better because at least I knew where she was," Ramsey said."


    There you go. There's John Ramsey all over - he feels better that his daughter is no longer missing and hopefully alive, but is confirmed dead. Way to go John!!



    "By making light in dark situations, Ramsey said he personally used humor, sleep, faith, memories and looking toward the future to keep from severe depression.

    "Life's not easy, it's a marathon with lots of hills," Ramsey said."


    A little too glib, John. JonBenet was just one of those hills to you, eh? What humor can you have when your 6-year-old innocent yet not virginal daughter has been murdered? Riddle me that, you sick narcissistic jerk.
     
  6. heymom

    heymom Member

    Thanks, KK, for posting these passages. I had never read this piece before, and those quotes stand out for me like screaming neon billboards.
     
  7. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    I always thought JR's comment about feeling better after she was "found" (even though she was DEAD) because then he knew where she was - astounding! I was stunned to read that he'd rather have had a dead child than a missing child that could still be alive!
     
  8. Pearlsim

    Pearlsim FFJ Senior Member

    I think John was trying to summon up feelings that he'd heard other parents of kidnapped children say but, in true Ramsey fashion, he managed to screw up the soundbite because he didn't really have to feel that emotion.

    Parents of children who disappear without a trace - and then remain missing for long periods of time - have been known to express that even finding out the horrible truth that their child is dead might be better than living year after year without knowing. It doesn't mean they want them dead, it's more about acknowledging they might be and wanting to know, one way or the other.

    But, there's a huge difference between that sentiment and John's glib comment about how dandy it was that the loose ends could be tied up so quickly - even if it meant a sexually molested, strangled and bludgeoned little daughter in his basement.
     
  9. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Yes, John Ramsey always seems to be "imitating" what he THINKS is the politically correct thing to say. He has no capacity for deception like Patsy did, though. He cannot pull it off.

    Patsy was as fake as her implants, but she was good at it. She seems to have spent her life creating an image of perfection. Yet when that image was shattered, with the ugly, raw truth no longer capable of being hidden from all who knew her to be sooooooo perfectly everything, what lies beneath came out. Then she staged the finest performance of her life, the one all the rest had been preparing her to deliver. She pulled it off, too. At least, she kept them out of prison.

    Alas...the evidence ripped the mask from her face for the public. At least, for those not blinded by their own pre-conceptions about who the Ramseys were, the evidence tells the tale.

    And the Ramseys were far from an ideal family.
     
  10. The Punisher

    The Punisher Member

    And despite all of that, I can't hate her.
     
  11. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member


    Nor should you, Punisher. I don't hate any of the Ramseys. But I do hate what they did. ALL they did that hurt so many, but especially JonBenet.

    They will go down in history along with OJ, Lizzie Borden, and the many infamous "Umbrella People". That's the justice their heirs will always carry on their shoulders.

    You see, no matter how bad the truth is, lying is always worse. The Ramseys' real Achilles Heel is their arrogance and willingness to let everyone ELSE take the blame for what they did. That shows who they REALLY are: Whatever happened in the family that resulted in JonBenet's molestation and murder that night, that resulted from human weakness and depravity that went unchecked and then spun out of control; What happened AFTER the initial crimes came from pure, deliberate, premeditated evil, IMO. Laying THEIR sins publicly at the doors of others defines their lack of remorse or conscience, to me.

    They are justifiably in OJ's league, IMO.
     
  12. heymom

    heymom Member

    Except that OJ was probably influenced by his fame and fortune to become as narcissistic as he is, while John Ramsey was not famous at all. He may have been well off, but not outrageously wealthy, and Patsy spent money like it was going out of style. Not that fame excuses OJ, because he is also very violent and abusive, but an ego that's already out of control does not respond well to fame or later on, the loss of that fame...

    I think the Ramseys are in a league of their own. Patsy seems to be more of a borderline personality to me, searching for a way to become significant and real, while John seems like textbook narcissism. If Patsy was not a BP, then she had been abused and was open to someone like John, who obviously has no conscience toward others, since he can sacrifice people who were his closest friends to the cause of keeping his own sorry arse out of jail.
     
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