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  1. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    No what I'm talking about is when Patsy said they planned to both stay in Burkes room that night. I just skimmed the transcripts over at acandyrose and I didn't find it so I have a hunch it's eithor in DOI or PMPT. I'll keep looking.
    That's okay. We still have confirmation that Patsy lied to the detective at her interview and then contradicted her "No" statement that JonBenét did sleep in Burke's bed now-n-then. I have to confirm this for myself.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  2. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    You never know until you try, Karen. Those interested will post with you. It's hard to say. It could have happened as soon as their coats were off returning from the Whites. According to Burke, JonBenét walked in front of him, while the Ramsey parents talk about John carrying her up. Lies all the way!

    I must admit, I can't change my thinking about Patsy losing it that night when making her regular midnight call to waken JonBenét up for her trip to the bathroom, and all hell broke loose because JonBenét according to Nedra hated getting dragged out of her bed, so I personally can see a very tired frustrated Patsy Ramsey here.

    I'm keen to hear what the new Boulder team comes up with.
    I agree with you. IMO..this is what happened. I am sure that Patsy KNEW that JB ate pineapple...and pineapple, just like watermelon...makes you pee. So, I can totally see her going to wake up JB for a trip to the bathroom, and becoming enraged at the fact that JB had already wet the bed. I ALSO believe that JB was put in the bed wearing that red turtleneck...as Patsy originally stated...and that it got wet with urine, and that is why it was found balled up on the bathroom counter. I do not believe that JB would have put it there...she would have just left it on the floor, just like her mom said. I believe that Patsy yanked it off of JB, and SHE left it on the counter. Patsy said that JB would just leave her clothes all over the floor of her bedroom. My 7 year old daughter does the same thing...she is SO messy.

  3. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMES View Post
    I agree with you. IMO..this is what happened. I am sure that Patsy KNEW that JB ate pineapple...and pineapple, just like watermelon...makes you pee. So, I can totally see her going to wake up JB for a trip to the bathroom, and becoming enraged at the fact that JB had already wet the bed. I ALSO believe that JB was put in the bed wearing that red turtleneck...as Patsy originally stated...and that it got wet with urine, and that is why it was found balled up on the bathroom counter. I do not believe that JB would have put it there...she would have just left it on the floor, just like her mom said. I believe that Patsy yanked it off of JB, and SHE left it on the counter. Patsy said that JB would just leave her clothes all over the floor of her bedroom. My 7 year old daughter does the same thing...she is SO messy.
    I agree with this scene of the red turtleneck too, Ames. Patsy discussd with a friend ( JB's dancing instructor (?), that she had to waken JonBenét every night at midnight.

    There will come a time Ames when you will wish those clothes were still on the floor. They grow up too fast. I remember when my son's shoes were at the door. I still miss seeing all of them. Yes, I still see small shoes at the door when the family come. The two youngest grandchildren are 9 and 7, but I don't see them every day. The years go by too fast.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  4. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    According to the Bonita Papers and Patsys LE interview JB slept in Burkes room on Christmas Eve. That means there would have been only 2 opportunities for her to wet or the bed. The 23rd, the day LHP changed the sheets or Christmas night the 25. I myself do not believe JB ever made it to bed on Christmas night. So for me that would leave the 23rd, the night of the Christmas party(?). So that pretty much narrows it down. MO.
    Karen, I can't eliminate Burke so easily. The timing involved in the use of the garrote, the head blow, their history, the natural tendency of siblings to fight...I can't eliminate Burke.

    Thanks for layng out this timeline. If JonBenet and Burke ate pineapple at the table, where his fingerprints are found on the pineapple bowl, from which the pinepple in JonBenet's intestines came, at some point that night, it appears she and Burke were linked to that bowl.

    If JonBenet slept in Burke's room, that might explain why Patsy didn't bother to remove the clothes all over JonBenet's bed when she "tucked her in". JonBenet never went to that bed that night? Then where did the blood on the pillowcase come from?

    I wonder if Burke's new videogame played a part in the events of that night. Burke had been playing with it that day, with neighborhood kids, hadn't he? Then he went to the Whites. He came home and John says he and Burke played with another toy they put together. True or not, I would bet the farm that Burke was HOT to play his videogames. Maybe that's what he did. Maybe he woke JonBenet up when she heard it. Maybe he was afraid she was going to wake his parents up...maybe, maybe, maybe.

    I can't say this happened. I can't say it didn't. We do have a witness who wrote they fought over videogames...yes, published in a tabloid, the NE. Was that part of the events of that night? Or were Patsy and/or John so quick on their feet they thought of the garrote minutes after the head injury? Did Burke chase JonBenet back to her room that night, after she turned the game off again, in the middle of his playing, or when she threatened to wake up John and Patsy? That's what it appears Julia Phillips thinks happened, as per her daughter's letter to the National Enquirer. Did Burke hit JonBenet in the head then? But the garrote handle was applied in the basement, evidence indicates, so if that was done AFTER the head blow, someone was thinking fast.

    I will say I don't think the blood on the pillowcase came from the strangulation. The paintbrush was broken and applied as a handle in the basement, the evidence indicates. I have always reasoned that it was inserted into the vagina BEFORE it was broken, for obvious reasons. So that would elminate the vaginal injuries THAT NIGHT from being the source of the blood, unless JonBenet was molested that night in her own bed, as well. Maybe that's what happened and when discovered, led to the basement strangulation after the paintbrush was used to cover that up.

    Or the pillowcase blood could be drainage from the head injury.

    Would drainage from the head injury occur and not be detected by the medical examiner? Wouldn't blood in the ear have been detected? If it wasn't, then it would have to have been from either the PRIOR molestation, inflicted in the bed before that night, or from the head injury causing drainage out of the nose or mouth. Remember the "tan colored mucous"? Wait! Maybe LE KNOWS that the pillowcase blood WAS in mucous, and that's why they asked about NOSE BLEEDS. That makes sense.

    Maybe you can address this Karen, as that's your area.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  5. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Karen, I can't eliminate Burke so easily. The timing involved in the use of the garrote, the head blow, their history, the natural tendency of siblings to fight...I can't eliminate Burke.

    Thanks for layng out this timeline. If JonBenet and Burke ate pineapple at the table, where his fingerprints are found on the pineapple bowl, from which the pinepple in JonBenet's intestines came, at some point that night, it appears she and Burke were linked to that bowl.

    If JonBenet slept in Burke's room, that might explain why Patsy didn't bother to remove the clothes all over JonBenet's bed when she "tucked her in". JonBenet never went to that bed that night? Then where did the blood on the pillowcase come from?

    I wonder if Burke's new videogame played a part in the events of that night. Burke had been playing with it that day, with neighborhood kids, hadn't he? Then he went to the Whites. He came home and John says he and Burke played with another toy they put together. True or not, I would bet the farm that Burke was HOT to play his videogames. Maybe that's what he did. Maybe he woke JonBenet up when she heard it. Maybe he was afraid she was going to wake his parents up...maybe, maybe, maybe.

    I can't say this happened. I can't say it didn't. We do have a witness who wrote they fought over videogames...yes, published in a tabloid, the NE. Was that part of the events of that night? Or were Patsy and/or John so quick on their feet they thought of the garrote minutes after the head injury? Did Burke chase JonBenet back to her room that night, after she turned the game off again, in the middle of his playing, or when she threatened to wake up John and Patsy? That's what it appears Julia Phillips thinks happened, as per her daughter's letter to the National Enquirer. Did Burke hit JonBenet in the head then? But the garrote handle was applied in the basement, evidence indicates, so if that was done AFTER the head blow, someone was thinking fast.

    I will say I don't think the blood on the pillowcase came from the strangulation. The paintbrush was broken and applied as a handle in the basement, the evidence indicates. I have always reasoned that it was inserted into the vagina BEFORE it was broken, for obvious reasons. So that would elminate the vaginal injuries THAT NIGHT from being the source of the blood, unless JonBenet was molested that night in her own bed, as well. Maybe that's what happened and when discovered, led to the basement strangulation after the paintbrush was used to cover that up.

    Or the pillowcase blood could be drainage from the head injury.

    Would drainage from the head injury occur and not be detected by the medical examiner? Wouldn't blood in the ear have been detected? If it wasn't, then it would have to have been from either the PRIOR molestation, inflicted in the bed before that night, or from the head injury causing drainage out of the nose or mouth. Remember the "tan colored mucous"? Wait! Maybe LE KNOWS that the pillowcase blood WAS in mucous, and that's why they asked about NOSE BLEEDS. That makes sense.

    Maybe you can address this Karen, as that's your area.
    Wha??? My area? Why are you picking on me KK?

  6. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    I agree with this scene of the red turtleneck too, Ames. Patsy discussd with a friend ( JB's dancing instructor (?), that she had to waken JonBenét every night at midnight.

    There will come a time Ames when you will wish those clothes were still on the floor. They grow up too fast. I remember when my son's shoes were at the door. I still miss seeing all of them. Yes, I still see small shoes at the door when the family come. The two youngest grandchildren are 9 and 7, but I don't see them every day. The years go by too fast.
    I remember reading that Patsy woke JB up at midnight, every night, to go to the bathroom. But, I couldn't remember who she said it to, or where I read it.

    My cousin, who died of leukemia, had a music box that I had never seen before, until the family gathered at her home, after her death. On the top, was a little girl, standing ...and holding out flowers (to give to her mom?) in her hands. Behind her, turned facing out, was a bride, holding a bouquet. It played the old song "Turn Around". I think that is the name of it...it says.."turn around and shes a young girl walking out of the door", or something like that. Anyway, it made me cry. Her dad used to sing that song to her when she was a little girl. I know that I will miss those clothes on the floor, one day. My oldest daughter, who ALSO puts her clothes on the floor, until I make her clean her room up...is 17..and will be 18 in Sept. I know that time does fly by. My dad always talks about how fast it goes...he turned 85 yesterday.

  7. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    Wha??? My area? Why are you picking on me KK?
    I'm picking on you?

    Gosh, I thought I was being nice and responding to you so you wouldn't think we weren't reading.

    I'm so sorry I have somehow conveyed that I'm picking on you. Sure didn't mean to.

    I thought you worked in medicine, but maybe I'm getting you mixed up with someone else. That's what I was referring to at the end of my post. Nothing else.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  8. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I'm picking on you?

    Gosh, I thought I was being nice and responding to you so you wouldn't think we weren't reading.

    I'm so sorry I have somehow conveyed that I'm picking on you. Sure didn't mean to.

    I thought you worked in medicine, but maybe I'm getting you mixed up with someone else. That's what I was referring to at the end of my post. Nothing else.
    OOHhhh, ok. That makes sense then. No I'm not involved in medicine in any way so you probably have me mixed up with someone else. I have never posted about the blood on the pillow case although I don't know why because I find it intriguing. I was just ruminating about whether or not Jonbenet ever made it to bed that night. I don't think so.

  9. #117
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    I think Mayer noted the tan mucus from her nose and mouth, as well as on her cheek, and sleeve. He surely must have tested this and swabbed for evidence of blood, as "tan" mucus represents dried blood in the mucus usually. We've all seen dried blood. It isn't red anymore, but more a rusty brown. And mixed with saliva and other mucus would look tan. The thing with autopsy reports is this- the coroner states what he observes. His opinions about what he observes may or not be on the report itself, but will be in his "notes" which are transcribed from the verbal account of the procedure which is spoken as the autopsy is done. We have seen only the typed report, not the notes. We have not heard his recorded record of the autopsy, so there may be lot there that we can only surmise. His opinions on the injuries and sexual assault implicated in them is one that we've all wondered, I am sure. Yet, this does not appear spelled out in the report. Det. Arndt has said that he did say as much during the procedure, but unless he had been deposed or otherwise spoken about his findings, we won't know what he said.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  10. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I thought you worked in medicine, but maybe I'm getting you mixed up with someone else. That's what I was referring to at the end of my post. Nothing else.
    KK, I believe you might have been thinking of Tex-an, not Kar-en. Texan works in the medical field.

  11. #119

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    Yeah KoldKase is one of my favorite posters. If she got mad at me I think I would just relinquish my memebership here and go away.........far, far away.:runaway:

  12. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMES View Post
    I remember reading that Patsy woke JB up at midnight, every night, to go to the bathroom. But, I couldn't remember who she said it to, or where I read it.

    My cousin, who died of leukemia, had a music box that I had never seen before, until the family gathered at her home, after her death. On the top, was a little girl, standing ...and holding out flowers (to give to her mom?) in her hands. Behind her, turned facing out, was a bride, holding a bouquet. It played the old song "Turn Around". I think that is the name of it...it says.."turn around and shes a young girl walking out of the door", or something like that. Anyway, it made me cry. Her dad used to sing that song to her when she was a little girl. I know that I will miss those clothes on the floor, one day. My oldest daughter, who ALSO puts her clothes on the floor, until I make her clean her room up...is 17..and will be 18 in Sept. I know that time does fly by. My dad always talks about how fast it goes...he turned 85 yesterday.
    I think it was said to JonBenét's dancing instructor, Ames.

    I remember this song, Ames. That's quite a line isn't it? "Turn around she's a young girl walking out of the door?" So sorry about your cousin.
    I feel my husband and I have aged by two years going through this Canadian winter. :-)

    It isn't easy being in your 80's. Trust me. Most poster friends of mine here know I'm the oldest one at FFJ. I turned 80 last November. My other half is 83, just two years younger than your Dad. Didn't head for Florida this year. Health Insurance goes up when you turn 80. Insurance for 6 weeks would cost us $6000.00. We're aging too fast here!

    Scoozy us for getting personal folks.
    Last edited by Elle_1; March 11, 2009, 11:22 pm at Wed Mar 11 23:22:51 UTC 2009.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.



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