Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 23456789 LastLast
Results 61 to 72 of 102
  1. #61

    Default

    Thanks, DeeDee. So Dr. Meyers didn't give an estimate of 2 hours digestion time, so back to square one.

    I think, from all the discussion on this and the very helpful experiment of learnin with his experience and x-ray machine, 15 to 30 minutes digestion time from eating to the location in the small intestine is probable. Without better info from the professionals like Dr. Meyers, all we can do is make an intelligent guess, after all.

    Yes, Dr. Meyers was very sloppy that day, starting with not showing up until 8 pm. Many excuses have been given through the years, from "he was at another scene" to "LE was getting a warrant", but it's inexcusable for it to take that long. So much so that it plays into my current conspiracy theory: was he was delayed on purpose? Was his work sloppy on purpose?

    Think about it.

    1. The FBI did not take jurisdiction in a child kidnapping involving a CEO of an international defense contractor, with a note "left" by a terrrorist group; instead, the FBI simply walked away without even going into the home, leaving it to a small police force inexperienced in kidnapping, much less by terrorists, to say the least. Does this make sense to ANYONE? Why would the FBI do that? The excuse given is that they already "suspected" it was not a kidnapping by a terrorist group, but that's NOT GOOD ENOUGH. You don't gamble with a child's life. They know this.

    2. The house is not secured discreetly by LE; instead, the crime scene of a child kidnapping by a terrorist group--and that's all they had to work with, but if it was a single kidnapper, the child was still missing, since a search by LE did not reveal the body--WAS NOT TREATED AS A CRIME SCENE AND SEALED, but instead was treated like a tense brunch. Not only were half a dozen friends allowed to stay around, but LE BROUGHT IN TWO MORE PEOPLE, VICTIM ADVOCATES! Cleaning was done, food was offered...WHAT LE AGENCY WOULD TREAT A CHILD KIDNAPPING LIKE THIS?

    3. Arndt, obviously out of her league any way you look at it, was quickly left at the scene ALONE awaiting the call from TERRORISTS who claim to have a CHILD whom they will BEHEAD if their demands are not met. All while half a dozen family friends hang out.... What?!

    4. Arndt, who makes the biggest mistake of the small BPD that day, sending John and Fleet to disturb the crime scene, called for backup repeatedly AND WAS IGNORED REPEATEDLY, with her calls misdirected to another jurisdiction!

    5. The Ramseys were allowed to WALK AWAY from the home, into the arms of their lawyers without so much as a drive-by and a wave at the BPD.

    6. D. A. Hunter then proceeded to obstruct the BPD investigation, blocking subpoenas of the most elemental investigative evidence like phone records, clothing worn by the family, interviews with THE PRIME SUSPECTS, and eventually EMPLOYED Lou Smit, Ollie Gray, and Jon San Augustin to work on Team Ramseys' defense at the expense of the BPD investigation and the citizens of Boulder, ruining any chance of any indictment for all time. He succeeded spectacularly. Lacy sealed the deal.

    I've never seen anything like it and I hope I never do again. The Boulder DA's Office lawyers are up front and proud that they destroyed the investigation into a child's murder. Even more, they demonstrated the great crack in our justice system: IT'S FOR SALE.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  2. #62

    Default

    You know, I think I'm going to start a thread from my last post, and call it "A Conspiracy in Boulder".

    It just makes me so mad, I'm hopping around on my stumps trying to BITE something! [Inside joke, see "New Members" thread....]

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  3. #63

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I thought the body was not in full rigor when found. I thought the head, upper arms and torso were in stiff with rigor, but the rigor wasn't complete yet in the legs. I thought the body was not in full rigor when found. I thought the head, upper arms and torso were in stiff with rigor, but the rigor wasn't complete yet in the legs.
    The scale is numbers, as Dr. Meyers used some numbers in defining the rigor at autopsy. Rigor begins at the head and moves downward through the upper extremities and torso, then into the lower parts of the body. It takes ABOUT 12 hours, but circumstances affect the pace, don't they? Like temperature, for example. The cellar room was very cool, wasn't it? That's why they called it the "wine room." Do you remember, Texan, if cool temps slow or speed up rigor? I'm thinking cold slows it. Then the body lay upstairs in heated space, but on the floor, until it was taken to the morgue and refrigerated until autopsy.

    Sorry, I'm fresh out of memory here, but off the top of my head, I was thinking that the low body fat on JonBenet's body, small muscles, etc., also play a part in the speed of rigor. I know we've had this discussion but it's been many years. If no one else remembers, I'll look up some of this tomorrow. Too tired tonight.

    At any rate, once rigor is fully set, it stays that way for ABOUT 12 hours, again with conditions affecting the timing, and then reverses the same way it started, from the head down. I noticed today when looking at the autopsy for another issue that Dr. Meyers said the head, arms, and torso were losing rigor, with the numbers 1 and 2 used to signify how much, at the time of the autopsy.

    Anyway, this confusion is why I can't put my money on a specific TOD. Neither could Dr. Meyers, apparently.
    [/QUOTE]
    It is important to differentiate between the stage of rigor at the time when the body was found (at 1 p.m. on Dec 26th) from the stage of rigor Dr. Meyer noted at the autospy, since the autopsy was conducted 19 hours after the body was found. (at 8:15 a.m. on Dec 27th).
    At the time of the autopsy, rigor had already begun to subside in the upper part of the body:

    Mild 1 to 2+ rigor mortis in the elbows and shouders withmore advanced 2 to 3+ rigor mortis of the joints of of the lower extremities (autopsy report)

    http://www.acandyrose.com/12271996jonbenet05.gif
    I thought the body was not in full rigor when found. I thought the head, upper arms and torso were in stiff with rigor, but the rigor wasn't complete yet in the legs.
    But wasn't JonBenet's body in full rigor when John carried her upstairs?

    If yes this, would mean that she been dead for approximately twelve hours.
    But suppose she had been dead for 14 to 15 hours when found, wouldn't the the body still have been in full rigor?

    What poster "learnin" wrote a topix is very interesting:
    (bolding mine)

    [learnin]
    I have been a medical imaging technologist for 40 years. During this time, I have watched at least 1,000 stomachs empty.

    As soon as liquid or solid substance lands into an empty stomach, peristalsis begins and wave after wave of muscle contraction begins pushing material through the duodenal cap into the duodenum of the small intestine.

    The only time this would not happen is in the event of an obstruction, gastritis, bowel paralysis due to trauma or other sickness, etc.

    Jonbenet's G.I. tract was not compromised by gastritis, obstruction or paralyisis. We know this because the little girl's upper G.I. tract was empty except for several pieces of UNDIGESTED pineapple. Her gastrointestinal tract was operating quite efficiently.

    This little girl had an empty stomach when she bit into the pineapple. The flavor of the pineapple would have caused saliva to be secreted and peristalsis to begin.

    My experience tells me that those pieces of pineapple (no more than they were), would have been going into the small intestine within 10 minutes.

    I believe the first blow was struck no later than 30 minutes after she ate the pineapple.
    Just a hypothetical scenario:
    The family arives home at around 9:30 p. m. The is some milling around by all, and around 10 p. m. JonBenet has a pineapple snack with Burke.
    Another half hour passes and something happens at around 10:30 p.m. resulting in the horribe skull fracture.
    Maybe it was a fierce sibling fight during which Burke struck a blow?

    Is it possible to reconcile (timeline-wise) an earlier TOD at 11 p. m. with the the full stage of rigor mortis in which the body was found?

    KK, if would be great if learnin not only posted at topix but also came over here!
    Last edited by rashomon; August 15, 2009, 7:22 pm at Sat Aug 15 19:22:49 UTC 2009.

  4. #64

    Default

    I only have a minute, rashomon, so just a quick reply for now.

    The process of rigor takes approx. 36 hours. 12 hours to set in full, 12 hours in full rigor, and 12 hours to reverse. But as I think I mentioned, conditions can alter that a bit. For one thing, JonBenet had little body fat and was very small. Because rigor is basically the muscles stiffening and then releasing, the size and length of the muscles seem like they would affect the timeline, but maybe not. I'll have to read again on this to remember, sorry.

    I do think I read that temperature has an affect on how fast rigor developes, and JonBenet was laid out in a room which was cooler than normal room temp of American homes with central heat, though I can't remember if anyone actually TOOK the temp of that room at the time of the murder.

    Or maybe they did, and we just don't know about it. If not, that's another opportunity lost if they didn't.

    At any rate, when John carried JonBenet upstairs, her upper body was in rigor, but for some reason, I thought her lower extremities were not fully set yet...? Maybe I'm confused on that, though. But yes, her upper body was stiff, the reports/sources we have did say. With the window being 12 hours approx. to set in full, then full rigor for 12 hours before the rigors starts to decline, I'd like to see what someone like Dr. Wecht has to say about how long that process would take in a small, think child of 48 lbs. left in a cellar room of cool temps initially for some length of time. Come to think of it, Dr. Wecht probably wrote about this in his book and I just can't remember it. I'll look it up when I get time if someone doesn't beat me to it.

    Yeah, learnin would be a great person to add to our membership, but he might be a bit too classy for the guttah.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  5. #65

    Default

    This is sometimes a bit too complicated for me.....but I think I will take JR's word on it and agree that she died on the 25th.

    http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ram...7/07/24-1.html
    John Ramsey's Statement

    On December 25th, my daughter, JonBenet, was brutally murdered ....



    Now if the evidence you guys are talking about place the TOD around 10,11pm I don't even need something else.
    Not even JR lied about that,amazing isn't it.They lied about everything else,but writing dec 26th on her headstone would have been indeed to much,even for them,especially since they were the only ones knowing the exact TOD.

  6. #66

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine_ws View Post
    This is sometimes a bit too complicated for me.....but I think I will take JR's word on it and agree that she died on the 25th.

    http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ram...7/07/24-1.html
    John Ramsey's Statement

    On December 25th, my daughter, JonBenet, was brutally murdered ....

    Now if the evidence you guys are talking about place the TOD around 10,11pm I don't even need something else.
    Not even JR lied about that,amazing isn't it.They lied about everything else,but writing dec 26th on her headstone would have been indeed to much,even for them,especially since they were the only ones knowing the exact TOD.
    Thanks for the interesting link, Madeleine! Very telling words by John. Truth often has a way of shining through.

  7. #67

    Default

    Yes, madeleine, you have a good point about JR and the 25th. He should know.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  8. #68

    Default FFJ membership

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Yeah, learnin would be a great person to add to our membership, but he might be a bit too classy for the guttah.
    Anyone who has 'survived' positng with Shill and AntiK over at Topix will find the 'guttah' a haven.

    I just read learnin's post at Topix; he/she wanted to register at FFJ a while ago but couldn't:
    http://www.topix.com/forum/post/reply
    ["learnin"]
    Rashomon,
    You mentioned about me joining the Forums for Justice sight. Actually, this was the first site I visited after I read PMPT and Thomas' book which has probably been about 2 years now. I read many of the conversations there and learned a great deal. I did try to register so I could join the conversations but I always got some kind of message like "not taking new registrations" or something like that. I, probably, was just going about it the wrong way. Any suggestions.
    Is there anything which can be done to make it easier for poster Learnin to register?

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    In a World With Too Much Crime
    Posts
    7,831

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon View Post
    Is there anything which can be done to make it easier for poster Learnin to register?
    Learnin only has to go to www.forumsforjustice.org
    Select ENTER to enter the forum area
    Select REGISTER at the top left of the page and complete the registration sign-up.
    Two things though...no free email accounts for registration, and the quickest way is to sign up is 1)using the same hat as topix which avoids a lengthy "check out the newbie" process, or 2) have a current member vouch for them (which it seems has already happened!)
    It's probably too late to get justice for JonBenét. Maybe it always was. But knowing where things went wrong is the first step to not going there again. **-- Alan Prendergast-Dec 21, 2006--**

    ______________________
    Bring all our Missing Home www.usearchut.org
    Prayers for our military who are protecting our freedom.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    In a World With Too Much Crime
    Posts
    7,831

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Yes, madeleine, you have a good point about JR and the 25th. He should know.
    I always thought this was a tell tale part of the case. How many people do you know who put a different date on the headstone from when the person died?

    She was clearly not found on the 25th, yet John said the world must know what was done to his child on Christmas Day!!!! I don't think so...never did wash with me.
    It's probably too late to get justice for JonBenét. Maybe it always was. But knowing where things went wrong is the first step to not going there again. **-- Alan Prendergast-Dec 21, 2006--**

    ______________________
    Bring all our Missing Home www.usearchut.org
    Prayers for our military who are protecting our freedom.

  11. #71

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moab View Post
    I always thought this was a tell tale part of the case. How many people do you know who put a different date on the headstone from when the person died?

    She was clearly not found on the 25th, yet John said the world must know what was done to his child on Christmas Day!!!! I don't think so...never did wash with me.
    Me either Moab. This points to John knowing that JonBenet died before the clock struck midnight, not in the wee hours of the morning of the 26th.
    No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man. -Heraclitus Fragments c. 500 BC

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    In a World With Too Much Crime
    Posts
    7,831

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by little View Post
    me either moab. This points to john knowing that jonbenet died before the clock struck midnight, not in the wee hours of the morning of the 26th.
    exactly...
    It's probably too late to get justice for JonBenét. Maybe it always was. But knowing where things went wrong is the first step to not going there again. **-- Alan Prendergast-Dec 21, 2006--**

    ______________________
    Bring all our Missing Home www.usearchut.org
    Prayers for our military who are protecting our freedom.



Similar Threads

  1. Ramsey Case - pineapple, bowl, and tea glass
    By koldkase in forum Evidence Files: Ramsey murder case
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: November 19, 2010, 9:43 pm, Fri Nov 19 21:43:55 UTC 2010
  2. Ah ha! John LIED About Pineapple!
    By YumYum012 in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 66
    Last Post: August 18, 2009, 7:48 am, Tue Aug 18 7:48:23 UTC 2009
  3. The White Pineapple Bowl
    By Why_Nut in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: August 17, 2009, 6:39 am, Mon Aug 17 6:39:47 UTC 2009
  4. What about the Pineapple?
    By Sheila808 in forum Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: August 27, 2006, 2:19 pm, Sun Aug 27 14:19:52 UTC 2006

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •