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  1. #13
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    Excellent post, Greenleaf. I haven't seen the videos yet. I'll try again tomorrow. I don't want to get involved in trying to fix anything now, it's too late now for me to start checking them out.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  2. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenleaf View Post
    Ah, Koldkase, this only confirms what I have believed all along. All the work you put into bringing this to us is very much appreciated. You are a great sleuth and a great poster; ever striving to put the facts before us.

    I have said all along that J.R. was more fearful of being found guilty of child abuse than of murder. His responses, in TV interviews, in ref. to this subject, have been ambiguous and disingenuous. I don’t believe that he even acknowledged that JBR had been sexually abused. Ditto for Patsy.

    Most folks simply cannot wrap their minds around something as vile and abnormal as incest. It is against every form of human decency. The fact that most folks would rather shy away from hearing or reading about it, allows too many creeps to slip through the cracks.

    In my opinion, incest is the epitome of evil. Only cowards, intent upon satisfying their primitive desires,would stoop so low as to abuse a child; especially their own child. Such people obviously have no regard for the sanctity of human life and possess a form of evil that is so despicable we fail mightily in our attempts to describe it. I believe that pedophiles are well aware of our abhorrence of incest and depend upon that to keep their evil behavior silenced. Their fear is of being exposed, but an even greater fear is having to spend time in jail or prison. They are well aware of what the most hardened criminal will do to them, and it ain’t pretty. Also, there is a strong comradely that exists between pedophiles, and, from what I understand, there’s a nation wide fellowship; transcending morals, laws or accepted modes of behavior.

    I do not find it odd that all those elements of “protection” in the Ram case remain intact, as I have my suspicions’, as to a certain “fellowship” existing between those involved in the cover-up.

    Again, thank you Koldkase, for bringing this most important subject to the forefront again. Thank God for Dr.Wecht!
    gl
    Ah, yes, Greenleaf, exactly what I think about the incest issues involved in this case.

    I believe this had some influence on Hunter's many decisions to help cover up this crime, as well. I don't think he, being the complete wuss that he is, had the stomach to bring the truth of what actually happened to JonBenet before a jury, in a public trial. Unless he's just completely corrupt from the word "go", I think Hunter was easy for the powerful defense law firm to sway on this.

    This crime began with child molestation and ended in the death of the child and the cover up, with incest at its core, IMO. As is almost always true with incest, EVERYONE conspires to cover it up, re-victimizing the survivor for the rest of his/her life. In JonBenet's case, she didn't even get to have a life.

    All to protect her molester and her family's reputation, IMO.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  3. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Excellent post, Greenleaf. I haven't seen the videos yet. I'll try again tomorrow. I don't want to get involved in trying to fix anything now, it's too late now for me to start checking them out.
    Elle, maybe you just need to download an upgrade for whatever program you use to play youtube.com videos? Sometimes I get messages that I need to download "flashplayer" or some such when I go to a website that plays a video. This is often hard on computers as they get older, too, because these programs require more and more memory and newer processors, etc. If not for that, I'd still have my first computer from 1994, a Dell which I'm sure would crank up if I plugged it in and turned it on today!

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
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    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  4. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitewitch1 View Post
    I'm curious to know, what, if anything, did Wecht have to say about the "DNA" evidence? I don't have time to watch the videos right now so hoping you (KK) can answer my question.
    Hm. Now you've stumped me! Coffee hasn't kicked in yet, and I can't remember exactly what he said, other than that it is absurd to think an intruder came in, spent hours doing all that was done in the commission of this crime, and left only a few DNA cells, etc.

    Dr. Wecht is a medical examiner and pathologist at his core, so he spent the most time discussing the autopsy results. I don't remember if he got into too much detail about the DNA, but I remember Dr. Lee's work on this case was brought into the topic, I think when the DNA was mentioned, during the DNA discussion.

    Sorry. Until I listen to it again, I'm drawing a blank! I am going to listen to it again, as an article was mentioned I want to look up, as well. More coffee might help....

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  5. #17
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    This was a GREAT find you old pirate! I am proud of you and thank you so much for bringing it to the forum! Hopefully I can listen to them this evening or tomorrow.
    It's probably too late to get justice for JonBenét. Maybe it always was. But knowing where things went wrong is the first step to not going there again. **-- Alan Prendergast-Dec 21, 2006--**

    ______________________
    Bring all our Missing Home www.usearchut.org
    Prayers for our military who are protecting our freedom.

  6. #18

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    Well, in all honesty, I have to credit Why Nut for my own little "discovery". I was looking for a specific photo and went to Why Nut's websites. Why Nut is always up on the latest web thingie and has lots of stuff stored we can access, plus LINKS to various compilations of things JBR. That's what I was searching when I found this on youtube.com.

    I just can't figure out how we MISSED IT before now! It's only the single most honest and professional discussion of this CRUCIAL case evidence...EVER.

    Good old Dr. Wecht. I'm ready to testify on his behalf.
    Last edited by koldkase; June 17, 2009, 10:17 am at Wed Jun 17 10:17:41 UTC 2009.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  7. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Elle, maybe you just need to download an upgrade for whatever program you use to play youtube.com videos? Sometimes I get messages that I need to download "flashplayer" or some such when I go to a website that plays a video. This is often hard on computers as they get older, too, because these programs require more and more memory and newer processors, etc. If not for that, I'd still have my first computer from 1994, a Dell which I'm sure would crank up if I plugged it in and turned it on today!

    KK, It may have been a net problem here. I just watched the first video five minutes ago. Dr. Wecht definitely thinks it was incest. You gave a good account of what he said in your post. It was a great find KK. Thank you for posting them. I shall watch the rest.

    This Dell I have is just a year old. For some reason yesterday I couldn't open a few of the videos listed, but I opened the following video on the same page: Tricia Griffith on John Mark Karr and JonBenet I did see this one of Tricia shortly after it was produced. She was very professional up there before the camera, and she sure knew what she was talking about when it came to the scenario of John Mark Carr.

    Thanks again KK for all the good research you come up with. I know something like this takes time.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  8. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Well, in all honestly, I have to credit Why Nut for my own little "discovery". I was looking for a specific photo and wen to Why Nut's websites. Why Nut is always up on the latest web thingie and has lots of stuff stored we can access, plus LINKS to various compilations of things JBR. That's what I was searching when I found this on youtube.com.

    I just can't figure out how we MISSED IT before now! It's only the single most honest and professional discussion of this CRUCIAL case evidence...EVER.

    Good old Dr. Wecht. I'm ready to testify on his behalf.
    Three cheers for WhyNut! I must buy Dr. Wecht's book. I see he mentions in Episode 7 Part 3 that he had spoken to Steve Thomas. Of course Steve thinks bed wetting or whatever was the reason as many of us do, myself included, but maybe we are wrong(?). Dr. Wecht was right, no one took up this incest ball and ran with it. He does make you think, doesn't he?
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  9. #21

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    I should bring up here that with the complexities and 12+ years involved in this case, the hosts and Dr. Wecht occasionally get some of the details mixed up.

    But I also get some details mixed up now and again. I have never seen anyone who has spent much time writing or talking about this case who doesn't. Too much info and too much time gone by....

    For example: if John Ramsey is running for office in Charlevoix now, I have missed that. So if he is, then I have my info wrong. I have noticed he still seems to end up in Michigan a lot, according to his flight logs, but he did sell his house there. Also, his driver's license was in Georgia when JR last tried to run for office in Michigan, last year, I believe it was. So either this is an update, or maybe an announcement we missed, or the host of the program got the info wrong somehow.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  10. #22

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    Okay, Whitewitch, I listened again, and at 3:35 on the timer of pt. 3 (of Episode 6) you hear Dr. Wecht discuss the "touch" DNA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKTrJUOVOeg&NR=1

    Unfortunately, Dr. Wecht is rather inarticulate on this evidence, as he gets so excited and, obviously, is trying to say what he wants to say quickly, a taped interview being what it is, which is to say, limited as to time allocated, ultimately.

    The upshot is that Dr. Wecht says he has talked to Dr. Henry Lee about this case, and that they concur that the "touch" DNA is not really new DNA at all. (I saw and heard Dr. Lee say this himself, when Lacy's announcement came out.) Dr. Wecht does talk about the panty DNA being from a common source that most new clothing will share: human handling during manufacture.

    Dr. Wecht then all but calls Lacy a Ramsey shill, more or less. He also speaks to Hunter's inadequacy as a DA. Wecht says "...Alex Hunter...was known for being the most liberal district attorney in the United States of America." He says Hunter took 1% of all cases to trial. My favorite comment he makes about Hunter is this: "If you're going to be a district attorney, be a district attorney. It is your role to prosecute." (Guess Hunter missed class the day they taught that at law school.)

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  11. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    I should bring up here that with the complexities and 12+ years involved in this case, the hosts and Dr. Wecht occasionally get some of the details mixed up.

    But I also get some details mixed up now and again. I have never seen anyone who has spent much time writing or talking about this case who doesn't. Too much info and too much time gone by....

    For example: if John Ramsey is running for office in Charlevoix now, I have missed that. So if he is, then I have my info wrong. I have noticed he still seems to end up in Michigan a lot, according to his flight logs, but he did sell his house there. Also, his driver's license was in Georgia when JR last tried to run for office in Michigan, last year, I believe it was. So either this is an update, or maybe an announcement we missed, or the host of the program got the info wrong somehow.
    Hmmm don't we really need to know whether or not he is or isn't running for office? If he is we need to get our voices out there again. Can Tricia find that out? i wouldn't know what to do. Thank you KK for bringing us these tapes. Although I don't subscribe to Wechts theory of what happened that night I still cannot deny all of the evidence about incest he points to is there. It just IS. I'm just not so sure that is what was going on that night. I also don't believe in the wet bed theory so my opinion about what really happened that night is still a blank in my head, even though I do think Patsy Ramsey is responsible and wrote the note. Anyway, thanks again KK!!

  12. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Okay, Whitewitch, I listened again, and at 3:35 on the timer of pt. 3 (of Episode 6) you hear Dr. Wecht discuss the "touch" DNA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKTrJUOVOeg&NR=1

    Unfortunately, Dr. Wecht is rather inarticulate on this evidence, as he gets so excited and, obviously, is trying to say what he wants to say quickly, a taped interview being what it is, which is to say, limited as to time allocated, ultimately.

    The upshot is that Dr. Wecht says he has talked to Dr. Henry Lee about this case, and that they concur that the "touch" DNA is not really new DNA at all. (I saw and heard Dr. Lee say this himself, when Lacy's announcement came out.) Dr. Wecht does talk about the panty DNA being from a common source that most new clothing will share: human handling during manufacture.

    Dr. Wecht then all but calls Lacy a Ramsey shill, more or less. He also speaks to Hunter's inadequacy as a DA. Wecht says "...Alex Hunter...was known for being the most liberal district attorney in the United States of America." He says Hunter took 1% of all cases to trial. My favorite comment he makes about Hunter is this: "If you're going to be a district attorney, be a district attorney. It is your role to prosecute." (Guess Hunter missed class the day they taught that at law school.)

    Thanks much, KK.
    I guess I just don't understand how the DNA on the underwear can be from human handling during manufacture if it matches the DNA on the longjohns.
    I wonder if the video clips you posted were from before the longjohn DNA was discovered.
    I would be willing to bet that they were. If JR was running for office in Charlevoix again, wouldn't it be in the media by now? That's what makes me believe the video is older.
    Anyway, I thank you too, for posting this. It seems like Wecht is the only forensic pathologist who has delved in depth to what the autopsy report really reveals about the sexual assault. There is no reason to not believe him...he has no dog in this fight.



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