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  1. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texan View Post
    If Lou really wants to ID that footprint he only has to ask the FBI. They have a databank with shoe logos and tread patterns that is probably the best source. Lou just says he and others haven't figured it out, he doesn't say " I have even taken this print to the FBI and they haven't been able to ID it." If he did then maybe I would think he REALLY believed that it was the footprint of the killer. Otherwise, he wants it to remain unidentified so he can say there is something there left by the killer and not something that could be traced to one of the many LE who tramped through the basement.
    Well, I agree with the last sentence, for sure. Not just with the shoe prints but other factors in this case as well, such as the supposed stun gun marks. The RST WANTS that to remain unknown, because it casts a shadow of doubt. It COULD be stun gun marks (more likely to be seen as having been done by an untruder, though I disagree). So rather than settle the question one way or another, the Rs and their minions would rather leave it open.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  2. #98

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    For Patricia Fox at topix:

    To answer your question about the SAS shoeprint found in the basement, I'm probably going to disappoint. I can't remember if there was a logo embossed on the floor, like there was for Hi-Tec. I don't have it at hand, at any rate, but I've purged a lot of my case stuff from my computer, so I'll have to get out my cds and see if I have it on there. I'll try to get to that in the next couple of days for you. Check back.

    Sorry to put this here, but I don't like posting at topix anymore. I admire those of you who stick it out. The disruptive, mental narcissists who have ruined the forum aren't worth it to me, it's sad to say.

    In the meantime, here is a imprint from the basement that has other letters on it, it appears to me. I've tinkered with the image to try to clarify--should these letters be mirrored, like the Hi-Tec image? I'm wondering now if we ever knew what this came from, of am I just imagining these are letters? I've noticed these before, but I can't remember any solid facts about this being discussed. (Of course, I've forgotten most of what I once knew at this point; it became clear to me last year I was tending a body of knowledge that is rather useless now, so I put my brain to more productive uses these days--or try. )

    Original image:
    Attached Images Attached Images   

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
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    3 Dimensional

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  3. #99
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    I've always figured Burke was good for it. And the parents covered his young :(:(:(.
    This post, unless it is a legal court document, may not be carried in part, or in its entirety to any other discussion forum or bulletin board without the express written consent of the party who wrote it. It is proprietary to the author and to www.forumsforjustice.org. Violators will be reported to their Internet Service Providers.

  4. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC View Post
    I've always figured Burke was good for it. And the parents covered his young :(:(:(.
    And you're not alone.

    Looking at that shoe print in the mold- look at how thick that mold is! Deep enough to make a shoe print in it. This kind of mold is very common in unsealed concrete basement floors, as moisture leaches up right through the concrete. Yet, Patsy would have us believe she wrapped gifts in that room! We all know she would never do that. But someone did UN-wrap gifts in that room- looking for the Bloomies Day Of The Week panties.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  5. #101
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    I agree with all of you here. It could have been Burke, with the Ramseys going through, hell, fire and water to save his hide. I have always thought "accidental death and staging by the Ramseys."
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  6. #102
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    Arrow JC, and Elle,

    Oh my! I agree with all of too. I have said many times that if for some reason Burke's name came up for doing it I wouldn't be surprised at all. And that all of the cover up was done to take the blame off of him.
    "When are we going to get our heads out of the sand and understand that sometimes really nice people who look good on the outside are dastardly on the inside." Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, MA

  7. #103

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    I agree that Burke is on the suspect list for me.

    For some time now, though, I've thought that whoever did this, they meant it. As a child, Burke might not have known the consequences in adult understanding of death, but if he did it, he meant to hurt her.

    But I have also come to appreciate Brother Moon's theory as time has passed. Don't faint. It's just the proximity in time between the head blow and the strangulation. If it was Patsy, then she had to have been in some kind of really seriously disturbed mental state.

    It always goes back to the sexual molestation IMO. That was key. Either it was the catalyst that caused the tension that led to the murder, or it was the reason in full.

    I no longer believe the head blow was "accidental," though. I could be wrong, of course, but I've studied a lot of expert opinions on this, including many medical experts and examiners, and I think she was being strangled either when the head blow was struck or shortly thereafter, with the head blow being the means of disabling her so she couldn't put up a fight. I can't see it any other way because of the time factor involved with the swelling of the brain and the lack of defensive wounds.

    She ate pineapple around half an hour before her murder. She knew her killer. She died because someone deliberately tied the cord around her neck and strangled her. She would have died from the head blow not long after it was struck, as well. She did not fight back, so she was already unconscious when she was strangled. She was molested at least within 78 hours before, and probably over a longer period of time, as well. Someone attempted to cover that up with the paintbrush insertion.

    It was all deliberate. What I don't know is if it was all the work of one person or a family affair.

    But I truly believe Patsy wrote the note beyond any doubt. So if she didn't do the rest, she helped in the cover up.

    Well, that's my opinion anyhow. All the red herrings Team Ramsey has come up with for 13+ years now can't hide that JonBenet was killed by someone very close to her.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  8. #104
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    ITA. I have felt myself getting there (BDI) and because I also am certain Patsy wrote the note, I can't see her covering for anyone BUT her son. And I can't see her doing all of it herself (the killing and staging).
    The only thing I also feel is that BR wasn't alone. He was either with his older half-brother or with a friend who was there that night (perhaps someone invited to go along to Charlevoix with him). If we had phone records, we could see if Rs friends the Ss were called. They were ominously NOT called to come that morning after the 911 call. They had a son who was slightly older than BR and played with him.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  9. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    ITA. I have felt myself getting there (BDI) and because I also am certain Patsy wrote the note, I can't see her covering for anyone BUT her son. And I can't see her doing all of it herself (the killing and staging).
    The only thing I also feel is that BR wasn't alone. He was either with his older half-brother or with a friend who was there that night (perhaps someone invited to go along to Charlevoix with him). If we had phone records, we could see if Rs friends the Ss were called. They were ominously NOT called to come that morning after the 911 call. They had a son who was slightly older than BR and played with him.
    Yes...the infamously destroyed evidence, the missing/blank phone records, compliments of Alex Hunter.

    Since the Ramseys admitted they visited the Stines before they went home, it's obviously possible they took a travel guest for Burke. Did the boys share in the attack somehow? Is that why the Stines immediately became the Ramseys BFFs, living together for months, even following the Ramseys to Atlanta, quitting lucrative, steady jobs in the wonderful Republic of Boulder?

    Again, not impossible as far as any evidence I've seen. But we'll never know until someone who does tells the truth. And not just to the BPD or BDA, because they aren't going to EVER talk to the press or public about this case again, not as far as "solving" it, IMO.

    Sadly, there will be no justice for JonBenet.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  10. #106
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    I don't see anyone who would have the courage to come forward in this case. Obviously, the S's will never do it if their son was involved. JR will never do it if his son was involved. And BR will never do it if he was involved; he may not know anything anyway (but I bet he knows more than we think, whether he was involved or not).
    I can't imagine him reaching his 20's and at some point NOT wanting to ask his father about anything he may have seen or heard that night. But I can't imagine his father telling him the truth either.
    That leaves the F's or the W's. I don't know how much the F's know- they were the people the Rs stayed with immediately after the murder. They didn't stay with the S until a bit later.
    Aunt P will never talk either; she could be charged with tampering with evidence if it came out that she removed key evidence from the house.
    Nedra & Patsy are dead. Grandpa P is still alive, I think, but he'll never say what he knows either. But both JB's grandparents and one of her aunts (Patsy's other sister) were strangely silent- right after the murder and right up to this day.
    No, there will be no heros in this case.
    But you know something...JB doesn't need justice. WE need justice. JB, like all children who die (regardless of how), went immediately to heaven, surrounded by angels and loved ones who were waiting on the Other Side. She does not care if her killer is found. She does not care that she was killed. She harbors no ill will, nor does she need justice or vengeance. There is no negativity where she is. Peace and love only. Trust me on this one.
    The justice is for OUR benefit here on Earth. Heaven needs no justice because only those worthy of heaven are there.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  11. #107

    Default Time line head blow - strangulation: which came first?

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    But I have also come to appreciate Brother Moon's theory as time has passed. Don't faint. It's just the proximity in time between the head blow and the strangulation. If it was Patsy, then she had to have been in some kind of really seriously disturbed mental state.
    I believe this is exactly the mental state which led Patsy to stage the strangulation scene the way she did, and also believe that, as soon as she realized what 'point of no return' had been reached after the head injury, immediately went into the mode: "I must conceal at all costs my implication in this!" and within a very short time, thought of concocting a "tortured and strangled" sexual predator scene. Imo the ransom note was written later.
    From the study of other criminal cases, I know how quickly offenders of a certain psychological mindset can decide to stage scenes if they think it will help them to escape justice. Their mind races on overdrive, and the twenty to sixty minutes (Dr. Wright's assessment) which elapsed between the head blow and death would provide ample time to stage this scene. Patsy had no empathy for JonBenet in life, treating her like a living doll, and both Ramseys, as they left the scene, let the dead body lie there under the Christmas tree, like a broken doll. Imo a person as narcissistic and umempathetic as Patsy was capable of staging that scene, and the fiber evidince indicates that it was she who broke the paintbrush and tied the cord around JonBenet's neck.
    As for Brother Moon's theory, while he points out just how mentally disturbed Patsy was, his theory that JonBenet's death was a pre-planned 'sacrifice act' by Patsy is taking it too far imo. The chaotic staging does not suggest pre-planning, but a mind re-acting to a sequence of events which had culminated in a tragedy.
    The most difficult issue is the possible sexual abuse. So if there was sexual abuse, what role did it play in the crime?
    If JonBenet was abused, who was her abuser? Was the abuser also the killer (not necessarily)?
    Neither John nor Burke nor Patsy can be ruled out as sexual abuser. Nor can Steve Thomas's theory be completely ruled out that Patsy was responsible for JonBenet's chronic vaginal inflammation due to "aggressive cleaning", as ST called it. ST also speculated about the cleaning having been used as an act of punishment, and if I recall correctly, he relied on the opinion of one of the experts LE had called in.

  12. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon View Post
    I believe this is exactly the mental state which led Patsy to stage the strangulation scene the way she did, and also believe that, as soon as she realized what 'point of no return' had been reached after the head injury, immediately went into the mode: "I must conceal at all costs my implication in this!" and within a very short time, thought of concocting a "tortured and strangled" sexual predator scene. Imo the ransom note was written later.
    From the study of other criminal cases, I know how quickly offenders of a certain psychological mindset can decide to stage scenes if they think it will help them to escape justice. Their mind races on overdrive, and the twenty to sixty minutes (Dr. Wright's assessment) which elapsed between the head blow and death would provide ample time to stage this scene. Patsy had no empathy for JonBenet in life, treating her like a living doll, and both Ramseys, as they left the scene, let the dead body lie there under the Christmas tree, like a broken doll. Imo a person as narcissistic and umempathetic as Patsy was capable of staging that scene, and the fiber evidince indicates that it was she who broke the paintbrush and tied the cord around JonBenet's neck.
    As for Brother Moon's theory, while he points out just how mentally disturbed Patsy was, his theory that JonBenet's death was a pre-planned 'sacrifice act' by Patsy is taking it too far imo. The chaotic staging does not suggest pre-planning, but a mind re-acting to a sequence of events which had culminated in a tragedy.
    The most difficult issue is the possible sexual abuse. So if there was sexual abuse, what role did it play in the crime?
    If JonBenet was abused, who was her abuser? Was the abuser also the killer (not necessarily)?
    Neither John nor Burke nor Patsy can be ruled out as sexual abuser. Nor can Steve Thomas's theory be completely ruled out that Patsy was responsible for JonBenet's chronic vaginal inflammation due to "aggressive cleaning", as ST called it. ST also speculated about the cleaning having been used as an act of punishment, and if I recall correctly, he relied on the opinion of one of the experts LE had called in.
    Couldn't have said it better. Some excellent points.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.



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