White Gap top

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by fr brown, Oct 19, 2009.

  1. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    How do we know that JonBenet wore the White Gap top at the Whites' (or the whole time at the Whites')? I know that Patsy says she wore it, but that's about as convincing as OJ saying he was at home all evening. Are there photographs of JonBenet at the Whites'? Could she have changed at the Whites'?

    The reason I ask is this: Steve Thomas seems to suggest in his depo with Lin Wood that JonBenet wore the red turtleneck home. Wood doesn't challenge him. Or is it a transcription error? The grammar is a bit squirrelly.

    "25 Q. Where did you get the statement
    358
    1 that it [red turtleneck] got wet; did you just manufacture
    2 that out of whole cloth?

    3 A. No, I'm suggesting that that was a
    4 reasonable explanation for the final resting
    5 place of this red turtleneck of which she may
    6 have indeed worn home.

    7 Q. But you had no evidence to support
    8 that statement about the turtleneck being wet,
    9 true?

    10 A. No, I don't know that it was
    11 urine stained.

    12 Q. Or wet?

    13 A. Or wet.

    14 Q. Was there any test done on the
    15 duct tape that would establish the imprint of
    16 JonBenet's lip prints on that tape....?"
     
  2. madeleine_ws

    madeleine_ws Member

    ST says in his book that Patsy first told LE that JB went to sleep wearing the red turtleneck.

    pg 25

    Must be one of those statements that magically changed.
     
  3. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    Yeah, but I don't remember reading that her assertion that she wore the white top to the Whites' was specifically challenged. I've been assuming that JonBenet was changed into the red turtleneck for bed when they came home.

    There must be photographs from the party and if she was wearing the red turtleneck in any of them, game over.
     
  4. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    Fr. Brown,

    As I recall there are photographs from the Whites party but the police have them and I believe have never published them.
     
  5. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    I know that Thomas found out that Patsy was wearing the same thing on Dec. 26 as Dec. 25 from photographs. Can't imagine the Ramseys lying about what JonBenet was wearing at the Whites' because of the danger of being impeached by photos.

    Thomas' phrase (assuming the transcription is correct) "worn home" suggests that he thinks JonBenet's clothing may have been changed shortly before she left the Whites' or at some other stop along the way.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2009
  6. Thor

    Thor Active Member

    I would LOVE to see those photos. It's crazy they haven't released them considering how cold this case is. Unless they really think it can be solved. Yeah right.
     
  7. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    All LE involved in this case have seen those photos and know exactly what top she wore to the White's. What isn't known is whether she was changed into the red turtleneck at some point before she was killed.
     
  8. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    According to the autopsy report, the white top has an enormous booger stain on the right sleeve. I've wondered from time to time when that got there. That would certainly be reason enough to change tops. Perhaps between the Walkers' and the Stines'?

    Glen: John, I have a photo of JonBenet at my house from that last Christmas, I know you'd like to have it. It was probably the last photo ever taken of her alive. She looked so cute in that red sweater and black pants. I'll show it to you sometime, but first I'd like to talk about going into business together.
     
  9. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    The stain on the upper sleeve of the white top found on JonBenet did indeed have a mucous-tinged bloodstain, Thomas said. This lined up with her head being turned to the right as she lay on her back, the way she was locked in rigor.

    But I have issues with the tales of the position of the body in rigor. The photos we have of her lying under the Christmas tree at the home, taken by the medical examiner's office, don't exactly fit the images we've been led to believe represent her actual position. If you look at the autopsy and crime scene photos I posted in the resource library, you'll see what I mean.

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16

    I can't quite make it out. Any ideas?

    But you have brought up another interesting point, fr brown. If the last people to see JB alive that night, other than her family, were the Stines, how odd is that, considering the close relationship that followed the murder? What do we actually know about that visit to the Stines, anyway, other than what the Ramseys and the Stines told us?
     
  10. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    I know that the stain was brownish. I didn't know it was bloody.

    I'll take a look at the autopsy photos after the munchkin is in bed, but on the topic of who saw JonBenet last. John at first said that he and the two kids stayed in the car at the Stines; then in '98 he said that he couldn't remember if JonBenet went in. In DOI they say that only Burke went into the Stines, which was always Patsy's version. I think I have noticed in John's interviews a reluctance to tell an outright lie unless he has to. Patsy doesn't seem to have that problem.

    As far as how JonBenet was dressed when she left the Whites', John said:

    15 She had on a little top with a
    16 silver star on it and a black pair of pants. I
    17 don't remember if she had color -- she probably
    18 did. I don't remember what color it was.
     
  11. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    JB's body in the crime scene photo shows her "in situ" on the living room carpet. Her arms are bent at the elbows up in front of her face like a boxer's arms. You can see a small part of the paper bags on her hand in the photo. This is what Det. Arndt may have meant when she described her arms as being "up over her head without support". The drawing we have all seen depicting JB lying on her back with her arms stretched out straight. But that was NOT a photo, just a drawing, and it may not have been drawn by someone who actually saw the body. Actually the only ones who saw the body in the wineceller were JR and FW.
    There is also one other thing to consider. Rigor mortis doesn't just "freeze" the joints in place. As it advances, it ratchets the muscles tighter and tighter as they are forced to contract. The action of rigor may have pulled her arms more markedly into that bent position.
     
  12. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Very true. The position of JonBenet's limbs when she was brought up from the cellar by John was NOT the same position they were in when she was placed in the cellar and lovingly wrapped "like a papoose" in the blanket. Rigor mortis would have made JonBenet's limbs contract. In fact, JonBenet was said to be in almost full rigor when found, which would have made the time of death approximately 12 hours before.

    JonBenet's hands would have been sticking up out of the blanket above her body, not lying up behind her head as pictured by some.
     
  13. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    Moving to Georgia to be with the notorious Ramseys seems a bit odd. What about the Walkers, whom the Ramseys visited first? _JonBenet_ has almost nothing about them; neither does PMPT. Did they move to Georgia too?
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice