The interloping rope

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by fr brown, Nov 6, 2009.

  1. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    From the Carnes ofder, pg. 72:
    "Likewise, other items not belonging on the second floor were found there on the day after the murder, thereby suggesting that some preparation or activity was ongoing in that area on the night of the murder. Specifically, a rope was found inside a brown paper sack in the guest bedroom on the second floor; defendants have indicated that neither of these items belonged to them. (SMF 181; PSMF 181.) Regardless of its ownership, there is no explanation why a bag containing a rope would be in the guest bedroom."

    I know this rope is one of Lou Smit's favorite things. He "knows" it doesn't belong to the Ramseys. But it appears that JonBenet had her picture taken with it once.

    You can see the end of the rope near JonBenet's ankle in the lower right-hand corner.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    Correct you are. And though this wasn't brought put much- Patsy had an interview with a local publication just before the "Colorado Christmas" house tour. In that interview, she mentions that she had a decorated tree in every bedroom. That "spare room" belonged to JAR. He slept there when he was home from college on weekends. Though he lived with his mother in Atlanta, he attended college right there in Boulder.
    Patsy mentioned that each room had a tree decorated in a theme particular to that person. JAR was into all things "Western", so his tree had miniature cowboy boots and hats. And a "lasso" rope as garland...
     
  3. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    Patsy said she'd never seen ends done like that. I guess she forgot JonBenet's cowgirl picture.

    But to give her credit, she waffles a bit on the rope and says to ask John Andrew. As I recall, John didn't give an opinion one way or the other.
     
  4. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    Does that explain why the rope was in a paper bag?

    Or was the mysterious paper bag just a bag used for transporting evidence?
     
  5. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    Don't know. It is unlikely that a paper bag would be used to transport the evidence, more likely a plastic bag. I recall that the rope was found IN the paper bag. JB was photographed with an identical rope in one of her photo shoots. If a length or rope was brought home from the store in a paper bag, it may simply have been kept in the bag. If the rope was used on the tree in JAR's room, the remainder may have simply been left there. The whole family was notorious for never putting things back in their place. Even Patsy's mother Nedra used to criticize her for it.
     
  6. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    I looked on the net and they do sell brown paper bags for evidence collection. And I think they put brown paper bags over JonBenet's hands before they transported her body.
     
  7. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Paper bags are used all the time for collecting evidence, just look at any of the stories/pictures/videos on-line where they show a house from which they are removing evidence...what is shown is almost always brown paper bags. Michael Jackson, Casey Anthony are the two most recent where I have seen that.
     
  8. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    If that's the case then the rope could have been put in the bag by whoever took it into evidence. I had read long ago that it was found in the bag, but there were a lot of misstatements in this case, as we know.
     
  9. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Oh, the disinfo about the "rope in a paper bag" has been a real tail-chaser, thanks to the RST, as per usual. But dear old ACandyRose cleared it up for us. God bless her.

    Here's a thread on it where we discussed it about two years ago, which might be informative for y'all:

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9034

    Here is the ACR link with her breakdown of the facts:

    http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-bedroom-JAR.htm

    From the police depo's of Patsy and John in '98:

    [Another little bonus ACR points out is that Patsy Ramsey told Haney that the bed was too low to put things under. Guess they better add to that profile of Smit's intruder that he's extremely thin.]
     
  10. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    I got it, I got it...it is Flat Stanley or Flat Stella, or both!
    http://www.pleasanton.k12.ca.us/valley_view/second/wolfe/stanley.html
     
  11. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    If the paper bag was just an evidence bag then why in blazes are Smit and Lin Wood presenting it to Carnes this way:

    "Likewise, other items not belonging on the second floor were found there on the day after the murder, thereby suggesting that some preparation or activity was ongoing in that area on the night of the murder. Specifically, a rope was found inside a brown paper sack in the guest bedroom on the second floor; defendants have indicated that neither of these items belonged to them. (SMF 181; PSMF 181.) Regardless of its ownership, there is no explanation why a bag containing a rope would be in the guest bedroom."

    Isn't this a fraud perpetrated on the court? I suppose Smit could claim incompetence.
     
  12. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Well, Smit would get no argument from me on his incompetence.

    Yes, this is a fraud perpetuated on the court. Unfortunately, Judge Carnes seemed to be too easy to defraud. Aside from Georiga civil law differing a great deal from the standard of evidence presented in a civil trial, remember that Lin Wood was in his own stomping grounds. Add in that Darnay STIPULATED TO ALL OF SMIT'S "EVIDENCE", meaning Darnay not only didn't contest it, he ACCEPTED IT AS TRUE ON ITS FACE FOR THE COURT, and you've got the disaster orchestrated by the wiley Wood/Ramsey team, with Darnay being run over like a deer in the headlights. Darnay thought his handwriting experts would win over the Smit disinformation campaign. Big mistake, as they never made it into evidence.

    Remember that the Wolf suit never WENT to trial. Carnes DISMISSED the suit BEFORE TRIAL when Wood made that routine motion after the discovery phase was fiinished. Carnes primarily used the depositions to write her 90 page "OPINION." Yeah, that's nothing more than AN OPINION she formulated without the so-called "evidence" ever being tested at trial. Wood played her like a fiddle. She seemed to have enjoyed it, dismissing all Darnay's handwriting experts out of hand, his best expert--impeccable Dr. Epstein, who stated hands down that PATSY WROTE THE NOTE--excluded because Epstein never saw the actual ransom note. Only the original document examiners hired by the BPD and Team Ramsey got to see that. Well, it was destroyed in processing by CBI, after all, but with Lacy holding the keys to the evidence vault, that was never going to happen anyway. Carnes saw NOTHING DIRECTLY FROM the case files, just photos Smit funneled through the PowerPoint presentation he made while working for Hunter, from the case evidence files, and then heard Smit's INTERPRETATION of them in his depo. There was no one to question any of what Smit said, and under Georgia CIVIIL LAW, if there's no rebuttal FROM OPPOSING COUNSEL to consider, any "evidence" presented to the court by either side becomes FACT. Carnes really had all the latitude she needed to write that ignorant opinion. (Ignorant because it was so full of Ramsey disinformation that was entirely false.)

    As bad as the outcome of the Wolf suit was legally (for Wolf, anyway, as it was a godsend for Team Ramsey), those of us who want to know the truth about this murder did get lots of info from the depositions we otherwise wouldn't have had. We got to see the Ramseys' many lies exposed again, as this time they were under oath! Stories changed. Patsy's memory lapses this time were even more sinister. And we got to see how pathetic Smit truly is as a detective, if not purely deceitful--and I can make an argument that he has known the truth all along and simply went along with Team Ramsey because it worked to futher his fame and ego.

    There's a lot more of that deceit you can glean from Carne's "opinion" and the depositions available from that suit. It's amazing how much disinformation Team Ramsey has put out through the years, when you look closely.
     
  13. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

  14. Texan

    Texan FFJ Senior Member

    bag

    Please notice in an above post where some questioning is going on Lou says the paper bag is an evidence bag but he says it was found in the room in a bag and says thats all he can say. So presumably the brown paper bag was an evidence bag and the rope was in an unspecified bag when it was found.
     
  15. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    It must have been in another paper bag because that's what the Carnes order says. That other paper bag, then, must be in evidence.

    Trip DeMuth doesn't say it was found in a bag and neither Smit nor DeMuth shows this bag to Patsy to see if she recognizes it.
     
  16. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Right. But Kane said on Dan Abrams' show on MSNBC, I think it was, that it was found in a "duffle" type bag. I believe Thomas and/or Schiller also said that, as it was common knowledge until Team Ramsey decided to make out like it was found in a paper bag in the room. (Good old "Disinformation" Smit strikes again!)
     
  17. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    No, it wasn't "another" paper bag that it was found in. (See post above.) It only became "a paper bag" when Carnes "opinion" came out. Then the swampsters took that and ran with it, of course.

    My guess is that Smit just forgot what the heck he was talking about when he was being deposed for the Wolf case.
     
  18. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    Yeah, I thought it unlikely there were two paper bags.

    Smit might have gotten confused during his depo, but I doubt if Lin Wood was.

    Thanks, koldkase, you're a walking encyclopedia.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2009
  19. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    SMIT was most always confused about something fr brown, it was his MO. I also agree with you that Wood knew EXACTLY what he was saying and doing. He was famous for that.
     
  20. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Pathetic, isn't it? :fight:
     
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