JonBenet's hair

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by koldkase, Nov 29, 2009.

  1. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Okay, back to reality....

    JonBenet's hair was in two ponytails when the autopsy was performed. We have always had a question about this: was her hair in two ponytails at the White's party, also? We know photos were taken at the White's party that evening, but we have never had an answer to that rather simple question from any reliable source that I've seen.

    Unless the answer is no, she did not have her hair in two ponytails in the White's photos, I don't know why it's a big deal.

    If the answer is "no," then it is a very big deal.

    So the question remains.

    Here are the photos we do have, taken by the medical examiner or his assistant at the crime scene before the body was removed. Maybe we grabbed them when one of Dr. Lee's books came out with a chapter on this case? I remember a website up about that book with some photos I copied. Or maybe one or both photos were grabbed by screen capture, probably by ACR or Why Nut, when Schiller's documentary aired the evening after Patsy was buried? (Sorry, it's been a while and too many weary hours tracking this case, so if someone else remembers, please let us know, and thanks in advance.)


    WARNING!! GRAPHIC CRIME SCENE PHOTOS!!

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    Another question these photos bring up is the position of the hands/arms, allegedly in rigor, at the time these photos were taken. What we've been told in the past does not match what these photos show.
     
  2. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Here are photos from Christmas Day and at the Christmas party on the 23rd.


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  3. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Here's another blow up of the hair ornament in JB's hair. If you notice the curves in the ornament and where it is located on the head, it causes me to wonder if that could have been what caused the comminuted fracture from the blow?

    [​IMG]
     
  4. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Here is a blow up of the side of the face and hair, and we have questions about the matted look of the hair abover the ear.



    WARNING!! GRAPHIC CRIME SCENE PHOTO:

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  5. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Questions and comments from another (derailed) thread:





     
  6. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Her hair does look very matted - moreso than common "bed-head" matting. It looks as if her hair hadn't been properly untangled over a period of time. It reminds me of the braiding which African women do in Mediterranean holiday resorts. My older daughter got that done once - years ago and her hair broke apart. The braid eventually had to be cut out and the hairdresser said never to do it again because it wasn't suitable for the more fragile Western hair types.

    Does it look as if her hair was braided?
     
  7. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    More questions and comments:


     
  8. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    More questions and comments:

    As I posted in the first post on this thread, I think the photo of the hair decor came from either a website about Dr. Lee's book, or from a screen capture from Schiller's documentary, but I can't remember which was the source, or maybe both.

    There probably are other photos online that are shared in private forums, etc.



    VOILA!

    Holy CRAP, DeeDee! I read your post while I was making this thread up, and also read my earlier post on that thread where I stated that the autopsy didn't say anything about the ponytails. How'd I miss that, I wondered. So I went to the usual "HTML" version of the autopsy report I like to use at Crime Library, because you can copy from it to paste and discuss, and no part about ponytails or hair ties is in that version. So I went back to ACR's site where she has a photocopy of the autopsy report in gif format (you can't copy and paste from this, so I seldom used it in the past--THOUGH I WILL NOW!), AND IT TURNS OUT THAT PART ABOUT THE PONYTAILS WAS EDITED OUT OF THE HTML VERSION AT CRIME MAGAZINE'S SITE. Yikes! [See next post for details.] I don't know if that was a mistake or not, but it's a darn important part of the autopsy, and you spotted it! Thanks, DeeDee. Your sharp observations are a great help! YOU DA BOMB!! So I'll put this autopsy info in my next post.

     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
  9. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Interesting thought.

    Rat said it looks as if the hair might have been "wiped" in an attempt to clean it up, like the body.

    I personally think this ponytail question is an issue because it seems to be a very closely guarded secret, as we now know.


    Here is what the autopsy report (from the UNEDITED VERSION) states:

    http://www.acandyrose.com/12271996jonbenet04.gif

    So what we see in the photo is the "cloth hair tie." It's a very odd cloth hair tie, and now I want to know where it came from and if IT was in JonBenet's hair at the White's party.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
  10. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    KK, I think what looksk like the hair tie on a first glance is not actually the hair tie but the pattern of whatever she is lying on (a brown & cream patterned rug?).

    On a first glance it looks like there is some kind of brown beaded bow attached to her hair.
     
  11. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Here are some thoughts I have about this:

    Since both of the elastic bands were blue, it seems they would have been put on the child at the same time, from the same source. Especially since the cloth hair tie was obviously put on over the blue elastic band, and not vice versa.

    That leaves us with these possibilities:

    1. JonBenet's hair was dressed at home before the White's party, with one ponytail secured by the blue elastic band on top and then dressed up with the cloth hair tie, but no lower ponytail.

    2. 1. JonBenet's hair was dressed at home before the White's party, with one ponytail secured by the blue elastic band on top and then dressed up with the cloth hair tie, and the lower ponytail added at the same time with the second blue elastic band.

    3. JonBenet's hair was dressed with one or both blue elastic bands at home before the party, but the cloth hair tie was added later at the White's or after the party.

    4. JonBenet's hair was not put into ponytails until the White's party, when both were added with the blue elastic bands, and the cloth hair tie was added there or after the party.

    5. The ponytails were added, one or both, after the party.

    Okay, that's all I can think of. Anyone else?

    What I'm pondering is this: the Christmas Day photos at home of JonBenet, with her hair partially put up in one ponytail, which was compared to the "Pollyanna" style, I believe Jayelles called it, might indicate that at least the one upper ponytail was worn by her to the White's party. That's the same style in the party photo from the 23rd, which also shows her wearing what looks like a satin bow decoration in it. So it seems to be how she was wearing her hair in general during that season.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member


    I wondered about that, too, but if you notice, directly behind the hair decoration is a pale cloth of some kind as background.

    Also, now that I've found the autopsy details about the ponytails, do you think that is the "cloth hair tie" in question?

    Okay, I've been trying to work it out and seems the CORNER of some cloth is lying close to the head, but not under it. So I see the weave of the rug, I think, which you are seeing...? The colors are similar, I noticed as well, but there is something irregular there, and that's what I was thinking was some kind of elaborate hair decoration. But now I am blocking that out as something ELSE, not on the ponytail, but maybe something she's LYING on or near enough that it's hard to separate? Maybe something from the Christmas/Santa presents, still near or under the tree?

    Oh, how frustrating to try and figure this out from a bad copy of a photo many generations removed.

    But as I see it from this perspective, there seems to be a small, WHITE hair tie around the ponytail. Could that be the "cloth hair tie" mentioned in the autopsy report?


    http://www.acandyrose.com/12271996jonbenet04.gif
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
  13. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Okay, DeeDee, now I'm embarrassed again, because I can't find any reference in the autopsy report (at ACR's site), of the "red/black/white" hair tie you mention here:

    I think you mean the "cloth hair tie," but just to be sure that I'm not missing something else important...help?
     
  14. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    I have this nagging memory of seeing a better photo which showed the rug in more detail. I remember being surprised because I hadn't seen it before. I think it might have been posted at Sycamore which unfortunately has vapourised. I wouldn't have saved it because of the squeamish-nocity factor.
     
  15. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Here is the excerpt I copied from the smoking gun autopsy report and there is no mention of the red and black and white hair tie unless the "cloth" hair tie is what you mean:
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
  16. Karen

    Karen Member

    I believe the "rug" she is lying on is actually a large patterned Christmas tree skirt. It looks like needlepoint.

    Her hair does look really matted to me but it also looks like it was cut along the side that is showing in the pic.. I can't make out the white thing (possible cloth hairtie) you see KK.
     
  17. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Finally...

    Thanks to KoldKase...My work here is done! There was no way that I could take my Sabattical while you guys were under the WRONG impression about her hair and the Lies told at another places. Way to Bee!

    DeeDee - THANK YOU....I have been too all over the place, so many thanks that your passion sent you on a quest for the answer we were already given eons ago - this important tidbit just happened to have a ton of BS piled on top of it pushing The Truth down the to bottom...for whatever reason why that one exposed liar wants people to believe anything other than REALITY, to me, is a disgusting waste of everyone's time, but I'm sure that it works well for John Ramsey - ALLEGED Rapist of Nancy Krebs, per Nancy Krebs!!!

    Bee Good for Me!
    :mears:
     
  18. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    Yes, I mean the cloth hair tie. My daughter always called these fabric-covered elastics "scrunchies". There were all over the place in those days. Still around, to, but they hit their peak when my daughter was in college. She was a Senior in December '96. Interesting- her boyfriend at the time was attending the University of Colorado at Boulder. My daughter had been there to visit him- the Pearl Street Mall was a favorite place.
     
  19. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Okay, hit the wrong tab and lost my post. I hate it when that happens!

    Short version: Hair ties in hair, ponytails--one or two at the Whites.

    Seems LE would have asked the Whites and their party guests, and the Stines if need be, if JB only had one ponytail in the White party photos, do they remember her hair being put into two at anytime when they last saw her.

    These are the questions I've found in the interviews of Patsy and John where JB's hair was mentioned, so it seems LE was looking for something there:


    Thomas asked Patsy this in '97:

    Smit asked John in '98:

     
  20. Karen

    Karen Member

    Well it's always been obvious to me that JB never made it to bed that night based on the pineapple, the condition of her bed, the pj's that "couldn't be found" by Patsy when they were right there on her bed, and a whole host of other things that you all already know. I don't doubt for one minute Patsy prepared JB's hair before bed that night by pulling it back into a long ponytail secured at the nape of her neck. The BPD and everybody else involved with the investigation has seen the pictures taken at the Whites. They already know what JB's hair looked like at the party. So if it were in one ponytail on top of her head, a "polyanna", at the party, which is what I believe, then finding her with a different style, a style which Patsy admits she fixed JB's hair in for bed, would be proof that JB was awake when they got home and Patsy had interaction with her. They already had the pineapple proof, this would just add to their case. Well that's just my 2 cents anyway for what it's worth.
     
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