Tape? What tape?

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by koldkase, Dec 11, 2009.

  1. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I have no idea if this means anything, but it sure seems hinky.

    Reading the '98 LE interview with Patsy and Det. Haney, I noticed the progression of Haney's questions to Patsy about the black duct tape found on JonBenet. Let me point out that Mark Furhman, in his new book, talked a lot about how detectives interrogate suspects to trip them up, or to eliminate them as suspects.

    One thing Furhman said was that detectives will ask questions about a specific piece of evidence, leave that topic, then come back to it, trying to trip up the suspect to see if he/she will change their story or to surprise the suspect and get a reaction.

    So with that in mind, here are some of the questions Patsy was asked about the duct tape. Notice that on the last day, Haney threw out a photo and asked a question that I find very curious. I don't believe we have ever seen this crime scene photo--and no wonder, because Patsy's response implies there is something in that photo Lou "I love the Ramseys" Smit might not want us to see.

    On the last day of Patsy's interview, Haney and Trip DeMuth showed Patsy more photos and they layed out this one, and I just wonder if anyone else finds this exchange about "tape" interesting?

    http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm

    Why would they ask Patsy about tape in a drawer if it wasn't important in some way. She's been talking about every small thing she can see in hundreds of photos, so why ask her this if it's not duct tape? Could even be black duct tape.

    Now, see the next post, as I found something else interesting in a photo I'd never really paid much attention to before.
     
  2. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    This photo appeared in the National Enquirer

    It's a black and white photo, and not very good quality, but Moab and I scanned it as best we could.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I don't remember another source for this photo, other than the National Enquirer book. Where did the authors get it? They got the videos of the Ramseys' LE interviews from jams, for $40K, but where did this photo come from?

    Why this photo? There are several pages of selected photos in that book, but many are of the case players, the victim, etc. A few are of the house/crime scene.

    And then there is this one. Of all the photos they could have used, they used an obscure one of a couple of boxes in the basement...with some kind of opaque tape on them. Hm.....


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
  3. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Here are a couple of enlargements, one I lightened to highlight the tape as best as I could:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    That sure does look like the tape found on JB.
    Interesting- during the interview you posted, doesn't it sound like Patsy is being shown a photo of the duct tape sitting in a drawer- to which she replies that "John would know better than me- I use the clear stuff". Sound like she was shown the black duct tape and saying it wasn't hers. (implying it was John's). She was also asked in an interview about the flashlight. She said they had one "just like" the one found on the kitchen counter, but didn't know if THAT one was theirs. Then she was shown a photo of a drawer and said that it was where they kept "their" flashlight. It was clear there was no flashlight in the drawer. LE then said that it seemed likely that since the drawer where they kept the flashlight did NOT have the flashlight in it, that the flashlight "just like theirs" that was found in their own kitchen may actually BE theirs. Patsy had to admit that it could be.

    Can you post this photo of those boxes at WS? There are a few naysayers there who will NOT accept that the Rs bought the cord and tape, despite knowing that the receipt from McGuckin's hardware indicated it was bought by one of the Rs.
     
  5. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    That's how that question sounds to me, too, DeeDee. Why ask about the tape in the drawer if it's not significant? The issue of the duct tape source is one of the major things IDIs hold onto for dear life as proof of an intruder, after all. It was found on the body, so it's dead certain that the killer put it there, or someone staging the crime scene to cover up for the murder did, at any rate.

    As I said about Mark Furhman's info about how detectives interrogate suspects, the fact that they threw that photo out in front of Patsy on the last day makes me think that they wanted her response to it. Think about it: they'd already discussed the tape; she'd talked about the tape herself in her long drive over Fleet White with that Ramsey bus; she'd denied having any duct tape in the house. Bam! There it is, Patsy. What have you got to say?

    And she said...nothing. Not as you'd expect, Oh, I didn't know that was in the drawer, didn't know we had that in the house. Instead, she says she uses clear tape and ask John about it. haha Oh, yeah, she was ready to mow him down, too, apparently.

    Do you know how to put a link to this thread at WS, DeeDee? Maybe that'd be the best way. Or you can link to the photos, either way. Do you know how to do that?
     
  6. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Must Have!!!

    I am a LUCKY woman and have ownership of Mark Furhman's new Book - we must spread the word that we all need a copy so that the World Best Thread can BEE started here come Monday!!!

    No Spoilers here...BUT if you are a Steve Thomas Fan, you are going to adore the chapter on the Ramsey case!!! If you are not an IDIot, yo will LOVE It! Buy, Beg, or Borrow - it is that much of a Must Have Right NOW as the anniversary is approaching and John's annual spreading of the fertilizer has already begun - Let's Do it! I know that some of us have it already and there is one flaoting around, but until I saw it with my own eye, I didn't realize what a wonderful Christmas Present we have been given!

    Please & Thank You!
    RR
     
  7. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Tez, you should have the "floater" Furhman book any day now, BTW. And thanks a million to DeeDee for sharing! It was a gread read, DeeDee. I'll keep my eye out for my own copy down the road. (Yes, I'm a bargain book kinda' Guttah gossip.)
     
  8. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Put it on your Christmas Wish List and make sure everyone in your life knows this is ALL you want...might work!
     
  9. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    DeeDee, are you referring to the tape shown in the enlarged picture of the box?
    If yes - wasn't the tape found on JonBenet black? The tape on the box looks more gray-ish.
    But if she was shown "the" black duct tape (i. e. from which the part on JonBenet's mouth had been taken), then it would mean LE found the source and in that case, would have tested it against the piece on JonBenet to determine whether it was a match.
    But since LE could not find any matching tape, I suppose Patsy was shown "a" roll of duct tape in the very same drawer where she claimed to keep her clear tapes. This exposed her statement that had never seen any duct tape in their home as a lie.
     
  10. Texan

    Texan FFJ Senior Member

    mark's book

    Yay! I just ordered Mark's new book for my Kindle 2 I got for my birthday. :heart:
     
  11. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member


    I agree it doesn't look like "black duct tape."

    But really, we don't know what LE matched, didn't match, or even asked other witnesses about.

    You see, I have wondered if Patsy had that black duct tape as a result of her pageant activities. Pageant beauties have been using duct tape for all kinds of things for half a century. It was and is popular for "figure enhancement," especially before every contestant had rubber boobs.

    Also, black duct tape is used to mark spots where people are supposed to "hit their mark" when onstage. It doesn't show up on camera like silver, for example. Since JonBenet was often practicing her "routines" for the pageants, took dance lessons, etc., it seems reasonable that Patsy would have duct tape to help mark her spots and train her to hit them.

    Well, of course SOMEONE who knew Patsy and JonBenet should know about that, as they didn't live in isolation by a long shot. Did LE ever even ask Pam or Nedra about that? Any of the pageant organizers or moms? Dance teacher? Burke? Other children and parents who knew the Ramseys?

    We don't know. Probably never will.

    But I'd bet the farm that if LE did ask those questions of "certain" family members, they would have lied about it if the answer was incriminating.
     
  12. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member


    OH, good, Texan.

    I'm hoping that all the people who have the book now will start a thread on it for discussion. I found it fascinating in how Furhman relates actual LE investigation techniques. It's very revealing to how this case went south so fast.

    I also think Furhman has some interesting insight on how media impacts investigations, but in this murder case, I doubt that the media impacted the end result at all. I used to think it did, that fear of becoming a tabloid headline kept some witnesses from coming forward who might have cracked the case for LE. But now I believe that this case was buried intentionally from Day One, with the DA's help. So all the media did was put the spotlight on that, in the end. Which is good, because we learned that our justice system is only as good as the crooks that run it.

    For example, without jams selling the Ramseys out for $40K, we wouldn't have those wonderful transcripts of the Ramsey lying to LE over and over, year in and year out.

    And we wouldn't be able to pick out things like Patsy being asked about "tape" in a drawer, or have the photo of what looks very much like duct tape on the boxes, even as she denied ever having duct tape in the house.
     
  13. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    KK - I won't have the time until later, maybe tomorrow, but anyone can start the thread and the discussion that I am soooo looking forward to!
     
  14. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    KK and DeeDee,

    In this exchange between PR and LE the first mention of "tape and cord" is brought up. But only the purchase and use of tape is gone over. I don't know if the rest of that interview included the cord or not but it is skipped over by both LE and PR. That cord played a huge role on the body of JRB and the tape only an after thought. Why so much on just the tape?

    I know you bring all sorts of interviews here for us to review. Do you have any on the cord?
     
  15. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    GOOD FOR YOU Texan! I read the "floater" book and sent it on to KK and it is now on its way to Tez...but I am going to buy a copy for the new E-Reader I am giving myself for Christmas! I am Getting the Barnes & Noble version of the Kindle...called "Nook"...they were supposed to be released on Nov 30th, but they keep running out of stock on the pre-orders...mine was due to Ship on Dec 11th...but I got a notice it is a wee bit delayed, however they said they will ship overnight at their cost so I receive it on Dec 18th...whew...I was getting worried for a minute!

    You are lucky to have it on an E-reader, because you can search on them, and look for just the passage you want! I will try and find as many Ramsey books in e-book form as I can for just the search-ability factor!

    I hope you enjoy your Kindle 2...I debated between that and the Nook for weeks...and who knows if I made the right decision...have to wait and see!
     
  16. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    Texan and Moab,

    Texan I'm so happy to hear you have a kindle also. I've had mine for about 6 months now and I love it. Have to tell you I didn't think about getting ST book for it. The main reason I decided to get one (in an unusual manner) was because I was running out of shelf room for all my books. And I was intrigued by it. (I won it on an online auction) I'll get ST book here pretty soon. All my mysteries will get in the way I'm sure! Heh!

    Moab I'm glad you decided to get the nook because I want to know how it goes for you once you get used to it. I had read that there is a delay because of the huge sellout with the PRE orders. Wow! That searching and bookmarking can be done on the kindle also. You will have color when possible and you will be able to share with other NOOK owners. I've read that there will be about 4 other companies coming out with some version of an E reader by the end of next year. some company will be coming out with a certain type of e reader that just will do business type stuff like plans and documents and anything that big businesses do with reports and paper things. A University in Wash State has been testing text books this past year just to see how it will be for students. So the whole world of books is being investigated for anyone who reads paper books.

    I think it is the wave of the future and will save trees. Book stores aren't all that happy but they still get a profit from the sale of e books, sooooo.
     
  17. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    Re the black tape...the tape was black on one side, gray on the other I believe BUT if you look at the photo of the white blanket in situ on the wineceller floor, it looks gray just like the tape on the box.

    Try here: http://www.acandyrose.com/149blanket.jpg
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2009
  18. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Indeed it does. Very interesting.
    Hard to imagine though that LE would not have that tape (seen in a crime scene picture) tested against the tape found on the victim.
    If I remember correctly, ST was still involved in the investigation when Haney interviewed Patsy in 1998.
    Imo if LE had been able to match the crime scene duct tape to other tape in the house, he would have mentioned this in his book.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2009
  19. Tez

    Tez Member

    I got the "floater" book yesterday! Thank you KK and thank you DeeDee! The book is in a word EXCELLENT!!! I've had a hard time putting it down. I need to make notes, especially on the JBR chapter.

    KK, like you, I loved how he explained police procedures.

    That tape is going to baffle me now....I wonder if any rolls of duct tape were taken into evidence?
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2009
  20. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    For those who missed it, I started a case photo collection in our JB case library here:

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16

    The duct tape you see in the photo of the blanket is showing the sticky side, which was light. I believe the black side was not visible in this photo, but it has always been described in all the books and articles as black duct tape. The thing is, before this case, I had no idea they made duct tape in colors. I thought they were confusing "duct tape" with "electrical tape," which is usually black. But no, it truly was black duct tape. I finally looked for some at Lowe's and they had a dozen colors by that time. Who knew? Not me.

    Here is a case photo that showed up on one of the TV programs, maybe Schiller's? It is of the duct tape:

    [​IMG]
     
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