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  1. #1

    Default Ramsey Case - DNA report & miscellaneous evidence

    Here is a photo fr brown found on the ebay website of a pair of Hi-Tecs from the Columbus line produced by the company in 1991, ostensibly. Notice the compass on the shoelace. Patsy was asked in detail by LE about Burke having a pair of Hi-Tecs with a compass:


    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  2. #2

    Default

    Dr. Spitz tested a cadaver for the head injury, and this is his "demonstration" with a Maglite, using a dummy:


    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  3. #3

    Default

    Comparison of the blanket in the basement room with the tape on it and the photo of the tape taken by LE later, I presume, during testing processes:


    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  4. #4

    Default

    I cropped the photo and enlarged it a couple of times, but it's like looking for a needle in a haystack for me. Too much of a mess.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  5. #5

    Default CBI DNA report screen captures

    Thanks Why Nut, ACR, and/or Jayelles for these screen captures at the bottom of this post. (I can't position the pics first, they just come up at the end; sorry.)

    First you see discussion about the source of the report and some transcriptions of it, in a WBB thread.

    [Note in Margoo's attempt to transcribe she inserts question marks ("???") when she is unsure; those are not in the actual report.]

    Forum URL: http://www.webbsleuths.com/cgi-bin/dcf/dcboard.cgi
    Forum Name: Ramsey evidence
    Topic ID: 86
    #0, Ramsey case DNA report
    Posted by Poster on Apr-30-03 at 01:44 PM
    jameson, please post a copy of the DNA report.

    #1, RE: Ramsey case DNA report
    Posted by jameson on Apr-30-03 at 01:50 PM
    In response to message #0
    no can do

    #2, RE: Ramsey case DNA report
    Posted by Poster on Apr-30-03 at 01:58 PM
    In response to message #1
    SAM said it had been publically released and I have not read it. Where can I read it if you no can do?

    #4, RE: Ramsey case DNA report
    Posted by jameson on Apr-30-03 at 02:02 PM
    In response to message #2
    Lin gave it to CBS, they spoke about it but did not publish the report. The full transcript is not available as far as I know. Just the finding - - the DNA found did not match any Ramsey.

    #3, Poster
    Posted by why_nut on Apr-30-03 at 02:01 PM
    In response to message #1
    jameson, please post a copy of the DNA report.
    We do have these intriguing glimpses from the television broadcast 48 HOURS.



    #5, RE: Police reports
    Posted by candy on Apr-30-03 at 02:07 PM
    In response to message #3
    How were the Ramseys able to get this type of police evidence once again?

    #10, RE: Police reports
    Posted by jameson on Apr-30-03 at 02:28 PM
    In response to message #5
    >How were the Ramseys able to get this type of police
    >evidence once again?

    Ollie Gray: "I acquired a document that you see right here that names John and Patsy Ramsey as
    suspects... was submitted for analysis reference DNA"
    Erin Moriarty: (Voice Over) "Just Days after JonBenét was murdered, her parents' were asked to give
    DNA samples to the Boulder police. "
    Erin Moriarty: (Talking to John and Patsy Ramsey) "The two of you have given samples to the police?"
    Patsy Ramsey: "Absolutely"
    John Ramsey: "Absolutely, blood, hair, we've given them everything they asked for."
    Erin Moriarty: (Voice Over) "Their DNA was compared to foreign DNA found under their daughter's
    fingernails and in her panties, which may have been left by the killer."
    Erin Moriarty: "Does any of that DNA match anyone in the Ramsey family?"
    Ollie Gray: "No, this analysis eliminates the Ramsey's"
    Patsy Ramsey: "If our DNA matched anything significant, they would have arrested us in a New
    York minute and don't ever think they wouldn't have"
    Erin Moriarty: (Voice Over) "If not the Ramsey's, then who killed JonBenét?"
    It wasn't mentioned - how Ollie got the report. I think it might be a good guess he didn't get it from Charlie Brennan's source! *grin*

    #6, RE: Poster
    Posted by why_nut on Apr-30-03 at 02:08 PM
    In response to message #3
    I observe the wording. The summary says that samples from 7 (the panties), 14L and 14M (the left and right hand nails) revealed a mixture (see the word "mix-" which leads to the off-screen completion "-ture"?). But look further. "IF the minor" component in the samples from 7, 14L and 14M "were contributed by a single" individual, then the Ramseys can be excluded. But we are all smart enough to fill in that particular blank. If the minor component in the samples from 7, 14L and 14M were contributed by more than a single individual, then the Ramseys are not excluded, not by this summary, in any case. If both John's and Patsy's DNA are under JonBenet's nails, they may well be included because neither individually has the same markers as all components of the sample, but together they may add up to the components found.

    #7, RE: Poster
    Posted by why_nut on Apr-30-03 at 02:13 PM
    In response to message #6
    We have letter combinations to reference now. For example, we can see that there are genetic locations referenced as BB and AA. If John has a marker of WA at location BB, but not a marker of WB at location AA, then he is excluded. But if John has a marker of WA at location BB, and Patsy has a marker of WB at location AA, then the sample may be a mixture of both their markers.

    #9, RE: Poster
    Posted by jameson on Apr-30-03 at 02:17 PM
    In response to message #6
    I would like to see a clear copy of the report - - the full report.
    I know CBS had a copy of the report and they clearly stated that the 2nd sample in the panties and under JonBenét's nails could not have been from the Ramseys.
    The CBS team that did the two 48 Hours stories is very good at doing the research - I have watched them both times - they check and double check... They are smart and have legal minds right there (Erin is a lawyer)
    They didn't quibble about it - - the DNA was from JonBenet and someone unrelated to her.
    (Unless you are suggesting none of JonBenét's DNA was in there at all.)

    #13, RE: Poster
    Posted by jameson on Apr-30-03 at 02:33 PM
    In response to message #11
    if 48 hours was handed a copy and used it on the air, it is not sealed and can be shared.
    Who should do that first, and when, is a completely different issue.

    #14, Why_Nut
    Posted by Jayelles on Apr-30-03 at 02:34 PM
    In response to message #11
    Can you decipher the items under the 'Description' column in the first image? I can make some of it out, but I'm struggling.

    #15, Jayelles
    Posted by why_nut on Apr-30-03 at 02:47 PM
    In response to message #12
    Can you decipher the items under the 'Description' column in the first image? I can make some of it out, but I'm struggling.
    Certainly. The items listed were the things that the CBI analyzed for purposes of identifying DNA:
    BLOODSTAINS FROM SHIRT
    BLOODSTAINS FROM PANTIES
    BLOODSTAIN STANDARD FROM JONBENET RAMSEY
    SWAB WITH SALIVA
    RIGHT AND LEFT HAND FINGERNAILS FROM JONBENET RAMSEY
    SAMPLES FROM TAPE
    BLOODSTAIN FROM WHITE BLANKET
    BLOODSTAINS FROM NIGHTGOWN
    SEMEN STAINS FROM BLACK BLANKET
    BLOODSTAIN STANDARD FROM JOHN ANDREW RAMSEY
    At that point the names go off the screen, but we can reasonably infer that the rest of the listing is of BLOODSTAIN STANDARD FROM John, Patsy, Burke and Melinda, plus John's brother Jeff and another named individual or two or three who have been censored out of the broadcast copy.

    #16, according to why_nut
    Posted by jameson on Apr-30-03 at 02:48 PM
    In response to message #12
    the sources which were examined for DNA (at least at the time before the summary report was issued) were:
    BLOODSTAINS FROM SHIRT
    BLOODSTAINS FROM PANTIES
    BLOODSTAIN STANDARD FROM JONBENET RAMSEY
    SWAB WITH SALIVA
    RIGHT AND LEFT HAND FINGERNAILS FROM JONBENET RAMSEY
    SAMPLES FROM TAPE
    BLOODSTAIN FROM WHITE BLANKET
    BLOODSTAINS FROM NIGHTGOWN
    SEMEN STAINS FROM BLACK BLANKET

    #19, Why_Nut
    Posted by Jayelles on Apr-30-03 at 02:52 PM
    In response to message #18
    Thanks for that - you have filled in the gaps for me.
    One thing - BLACK blanket? Did we know about that? Is that John Andrew's blanket? Funny, I never thought about it being black.

    #24, RE: Jayelles
    Posted by why_nut on Apr-30-03 at 03:11 PM
    In response to message #22
    One thing - BLACK blanket? Did we know about that? Is that John Andrew's blanket? Funny, I never thought about it being black.
    That was known. And what is interesting is that there seem to have been a favoring of black blankets in the house, as I look at the search warrants and find two items described as black blankets that were taken; item 19PP, black and gold blanket, and item 1BAH, black comforter. These do not include yet a third black item, 2BAH, black velvet sheet (with eyebrows raised, I wonder who was the sensation seeker in the house who belonged to it).
    Since at least one of these items has been described elsewhere as a blanket belonging to John Andrew and related to Colorado University, it may be the item I link to below, which seems to be the only such item they sell:


    #25, Why_Nut
    Posted by Jayelles on Apr-30-03 at 03:15 PM
    In response to message #24
    Goodness. I have never before seen either a black blanket OR a black velvet sheet! I guess I have led a sheltered life LOL!

    #28, RE: Why_Nut
    Posted by Margoo on Apr-30-03 at 03:27 PM
    In response to message #25
    This is what I got off the screen (after much staring):
    LABORATORY REPORT - ??
    LAB CLASS XX???-2136(?)-4153(?) SECTION: DNA TESTING
    AGENCY(?) NAME – CD0878136 – F2 ACBLDER(?)
    EXTRACTED(?) BY: blacked out EXTRACTION DATE: 123196(?)
    ABSTRACT(X) AFA(?) ?/? ??? (would this be the control sample?)
    RAMSEY, PATSY W/F
    RAMSEY, JOHN W/M
    RAMSEY, JONBENET W/F

    Two lines BLACKED OUT
    DATE COMPLETED/JANUARY 13, 1997
    EXTRACT(?) DESCRIPTION
    #5A,5B# (?) Bloodstains from shirt
    #7 Bloodstains from panties
    #14B Bloodstain ????? from JonBenet Ramsey
    #14J DNA? Or Swab? with Saliva????
    #14L, #14M Right and Left hand fingernails from JonBenet Ramsey
    #15A, #15B Samples from tape
    Bloodstains from white blanket
    #17A, #17C Bloodstains from nightgown??
    #13A, #13B Semen ??? stain from black blanket
    Bloodstain Standard from John Andrew Ramsey
    __________________________________________________ _______________(fold in page??)
    LABORATORY REPORT
    BB AB BB AA AC 24,26
    ??????? Section Testing WB
    BB AB BB AA AC 24,26
    WB WB
    BB AB BB AA AC 24,26
    WA WB WB W18 (?)

    THE DNA PROFILES DEVELOPED FROM EXHIBITS #5A, 5B, AND 17C MATCHED THE PROFILE FROM JONBENET RAMSEY.
    (the left side of the page seems to be cut off and starts with)
    FED FROM EXHIBITS #7, 14L AND 14M REVEALED A MIX-
    (left side cut off) COMPONENT MATCHED JONBENET RAMSEY. IF THE MINOR
    (left side cut off) 5 (or S or?) #7, 14L AND 14M WERE CONTRIBUTED BY A SINGLE
    (JOHN is cut off) ANDREW RAMSEY, MELINDA RAMSEY, JOHN B. RAMSEY, JEFF
    Attached Images Attached Images    

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  6. #6

    Default More interesting DNA documents

    Jayelles came up with some plausible lettering under all that redacted stuff:

    (Scottish witch should have been a detective!)

    Attached Images Attached Images    

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  7. #7

    Default

    I have no idea where this photo orginally came from, as it had no caption on a JBR website where I found it. Since I looked for a long time trying to locate a Barbie nightgown that might be similar to the one found in the basement with the body/blanket, and this looks like it might be from that time period, I thought I'd post it.

    The cloth it's lying on is curious. Almost like the way clothing that's evidence might be handled to collect forensic evidence? Maybe it's a vintage piece wrapped in cloth to preserve it? I have no idea.

    Is it the one found with the body? Again, I have no idea, but I'd be really surprised if it is because I've never even seen a reference to such a photo, which would be from the case file, obviously. I'm sure such a photo would be in the case files, but they didn't show it to Patsy that I can see in the 1998 interview where she was shown many photos and one of the gown in plastic, as I remember.

    As far as I know, few people would actually know what the original gown that belonged to JB looked like, outside the investigation and family. There must have been many styles available to purchase in 1996.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  8. #8

    Default

    From crime scene photo #5, which is a picture of JB's twin bed with her clothes she wore to the White's found on it the next day, it appears there was a black velvet vest (from Patsy, LE interview '98) and white socks. I enlarged and cropped these to try to clarify if these are in fact socks:




    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  9. #9

    Default Bloomies from various purchases by various people: not originals from case

    Repeat: these are not the original underwear or packages from the case, but photographs of similar packages bought at Bloomies or from the Bloomies catalog shared by case followers.
    Attached Images Attached Images    

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  10. #10

    Default Bloomies package images: not original case Bloomies

    Comparing two different images: one submitted from an online catalogue capture, one from Jayelles' own package she purchased from Bloomies in N.Y.




    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  11. #11

    Default It was a ligature, not a garrote!

    This is what the ligature tied around JonBenet's neck looked like.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Cherokee; June 5, 2012, 2:07 pm at Tue Jun 5 14:07:05 UTC 2012.

  12. #12

    Default

    The loose cord ties wrapped around JonBenet's wrists.
    Attached Images Attached Images  



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