Things that make you go hmmmmm

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Little, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. Little

    Little Member

    I still think there's a possibility that Patsy and JonBenet fought about that red top on Christmas night. My amateur theory is that Patsy wanted them to do the look alike thing to impress their future son-in-law.

    I dunno...I guess stories like this just hit me that way.
    (highlighting mine)
     
  2. Elle

    Elle Member

    This group of idiots ought to be horse whipped Little! I think it's time some attention was paid to what is happening to our children today all over. Dancing competitions for children are no loner simple. From Irish dancing to ordinary tap dancing shows. The children are now into full made up faces, curly wigs and expensive costumes. Parents of these children have to have high salaries to follow their children around. Costumes, hotel bills etc. Gone are the days of simple dance competitions.
     
  3. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    To hear Patsy tell it, JonBenet was mostly in one pageant with lots of different parts to it. She said that in her "lei" interview.

    As far as the red top goes, JonBenet and Patsy had a prolonged battle about it earlier. As John put it, Patsy "finally" gave in and let JonBenet wear what she wanted to to the Whites.

    It seems pretty certain that Patsy put JonBenet to bed in the red top and maybe Patsy did want her to wear it on the plane and to meet the rels. That hadn't occurred to me before. It just seemed like an unusual garment to wear to bed in a very warm house. But if she was going to be bundled out of bed early without time to dress, it makes sense.

    If JonBenet wet the red top she was supposed to wear the next day, that could have made Patsy really angry.

    I make these compromises all the time with my daughter: you can wear what you want tonight as long as you wear this outfit tomorrow.
     
  4. Little

    Little Member

    That's what I was getting at fr brown. IMO Patsy wanted them to do the sister act the next day where they could really impress Melinda's fiancé Stewart. The word staging comes to mind, which was certainly Patsy's forte.

    I think Patsy put JonBenet to bed in that red top because it would be much easier to get her dressed for her part the next day. I think that's why Patsy cried when she saw that picture of the red top during her long-delayed interview with LE. The red top otherwise would just be that, a red top. Hardly something to create such emotion. It played into her story of what she did that morning before going down to the kitchen because the red top played into what happened the night before. Top of the mind.
     
  5. Learnin

    Learnin Member


    The red top was found lying on a bathroom vanity, right?

    Refresh me as to why it is thought JBR wore the red top to bed that night?
     
  6. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    On the 26th Patsy told police that she put JonBenet to bed in the red turtleneck. In her '97 interview she changed her story to say that she had put JonBenet to bed in the white Gap top she wore to the Whites'.

    The red turtleneck was found balled up and I think you're right, it was on the bathroom vanity. Patsy said either she didn't remember how it got there or she didn't know how it got there. (I can't remember.)

    Werner Spitz said that the bruise on JonBenet's left collarbone looked like it was made by knuckles digging into her as she was slung around by the fabric of her garment. I've always wondered if that red turtleneck shows stretching on the upper left. (Good opportunity to use touch DNA?)
     
  7. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    Yeah, Patsy says she didn't lay any clothes out for either kid to put on for the trip. That always seemed odd since they were getting up early and aiming to be out of the house by 6:30.
     
  8. Little

    Little Member

    It is a simple answer to the marks on her neck, and a possible way she could have been swung around and hit her head on a rounded surface, which would explain no visible injury. I have a theory that the relevance of the way JonBenet's hair was pulled back was a way to get the hair out of the way to see if she had an injury. It might also explain the pot holder-style loops scattered on the floor - perhaps searching for something with which to pull her hair back. I think it all happened in JonBenet's room and bathroom. It's not a complicated theory.

    From Steve Thomas' book:
    My other sticking point is Patsy saying in the interview that she got up 5:30 - 6, obviously she got up before 6 but still, she has a list of things she did before going down to the kitchen. I can't imagine that she got all of that done before the 5:52? 911 call. It just doesn't add up.

    138 From the files of the NATIONAL ENQUIRER
     
  9. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    I don't think they found anything that matches the punched-in section of the head other than the head of the flashlight. Spitz says that the crack on the skull would've made a tremendous noise. It's hard for me to imagine slinging a child's lolling head around hard enough to cause that injury. I mean it seems almost physically impossible.

    I'm fond of parsimonious explanations, but I'm wondering if this encounter spread from the 2nd floor down into the kitchen. Maybe it happened in two parts: the wetting of the red turtleneck with the slinging around, accompanied by much yelling and many tears, then a calmed-down interval where JonBenet is ready to go to bed, except that she's hungry and needs more to eat. I feel a tiny bit of sympathy for Patsy when I think about that.

    Patsy's timeline for the morning makes no sense. She got up between 5:30 and 6:00, spent ~20 mins putting on her makeup and then another 10-15 minutes either fussing with a jumpsuit of JonBenet's and/or trying to get a plastic bag of clothes ready for the trip.
     
  10. Little

    Little Member

    I suppose my thought is if one person is pulling one way and the other is pulling the other way, you could build up some speed. I would have to think that hitting the top of a faucet could cause a skull fracture.

    The investigation into just what may have been the instrument that created the injury to JonBenet's head is unknown to me, and maybe it's because it was stifled the same way getting the phone records was. Someone was blocking the path to discovery most every step of the way. Once the Ramseys left town and would only meet with LE under their own conditions this case was likely destined to never be officially resolved.
     
  11. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    Yeah, I'm not sure. I know Werner Spitz did some experiments with the flashlight and (I believe) child cadaver skulls. He said it could've caused the injury and that the flashlight was a good fit for the punched-in section of skull. The police collected the golf clubs so they must've tested those.

    The skull was split in two so there had to be a lot of oomph.

    If it happened on the second floor and there was yelling (Patsy) and crying (JonBenet), then something that sounded like a sonic boom and then no crying, you'd think John and/or Burke might get up and check things out.
     
  12. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    I guess I'm postulating that there were two kitchen events. In the first one, Burke, JonBenet and probably Patsy sat around and ate pineapple. (I read in JonBenet that both Patsy's and Burke's fingerprints were on the bowl and somewhere else that Burke's fingerprint was on the glass/cup with the tea bag in it.) Afterwards, Burke goes to bed and more or less successfully ignores the uproar of Patsy's violent encounters with JonBenet. They were perhaps fairly common.

    In the second kitchen event which occurs after Patsy is already p.o.ed about the bedwetting, Patsy conks JonBenet on the head with the flashlight which she then wipes inside and out. (I don't think there was anything in JonBenet's stomach so this conking would have to happen before she gets a chance to eat.) In the tumult that follows, Patsy forgets about the first pineapple-eating event which creates a problem for her. John doesn't know anything about it because the kids got up to eat after he put them to bed.

    It feels a little jury-rigged and I'm not in love with it, but at least it explains why Burke's fingerprints were on the bowl and the glass/cup and it explains why what I think was the murder weapon was in the kitchen area. It also explains (sort of) why Patsy would forget to account for the pineapple JonBenet ate. That room became anathema for her and she couldn't bear to think about anything that occurred there.
     
  13. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    Saliva tests on the spoon, and glass with tea bag would have been very helpful.

    I read where a test was done with a similar flashlight and a foam coffee cup, and it made a nearly identical dent.
    I am not sure about the child cadaver skulls, but they may have been done at some point.
     
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