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  1. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by fr brown View Post
    I think Patsy may have run out of time when she was re-re-rewriting the note. There are still a couple of scratch-outs and a rather professional edit in it. My guess is that she was planning to do another rewrite, but it was 5:30 and she was out of time.
    Yep. Sounds about right to me.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  2. #110

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    A very interesting thread has been started at WS about the ransom note and Bible verses to which John's Bible was open, seen in crime scene photos. It's just getting started--or finished, ha ha, so right now it's a short but informative read.

    There are some things I'm finding fascinating in the Psalm passages quoted, in relation not only to the language of the ransom note, but possibly to Patsy's frame of mind.

    I had no idea, for instance, how disturbing Psalms 35 and 36 are. But they were mentioned in DOI as being essential in Patsy's ability to fight her cancer. Here's the link, for anyone interested:

    http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117338
    Last edited by koldkase; October 28, 2010, 1:59 am at Thu Oct 28 1:59:30 UTC 2010.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
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  3. #111

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    I think everybody already knows, but....it was Donald Foster who first pointed out that the Bible in the third-floor study was open to Psalms 35 and 36 and that the first four verses of Psalm 35 in the Ramsey version look like this:

    Contend, O Lord, with those who contend
    with me; fight against those who fight against me.

    Take up shield and buckler; arise and come to
    my aid.

    Brandish spear and javelin against those who
    pursue me.

    Say to my soul, "I am your salvation."

    Foster determined that those characters occurred in that arrangement nowhere else in that Bible.

    The subject of the psalm, God battling Patsy's enemies, must have comforted her. But God forgot to tell her to flip a few dozen pages after she was done.

  4. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by fr brown View Post
    I think everybody already knows, but....it was Donald Foster who first pointed out that the Bible in the third-floor study was open to Psalms 35 and 36 and that the first four verses of Psalm 35 in the Ramsey version look like this:

    Contend, O Lord, with those who contend
    with me; fight against those who fight against me.

    Take up shield and buckler; arise and come to
    my aid.

    Brandish spear and javelin against those who
    pursue me.

    Say to my soul, "I am your salvation."

    Foster determined that those characters occurred in that arrangement nowhere else in that Bible.

    The subject of the psalm, God battling Patsy's enemies, must have comforted her. But God forgot to tell her to flip a few dozen pages after she was done.
    Oops. "God" has a bad habit of forgetting little details when she's wielding a bludgeon in the battle against a six year old.

    Actually, I had forgotten who first brought that "S.B.T.C." passage up, or where I first read it, anyway. Thanks for the reminder.

    I've tracked down and put a lot of relevant quotes, about the Bible found with those circled passages, on that Websleuths thread, taken from the Ramseys' LE interviews; also from the Christian Broadcast Network interview.

    A poster there also made a brilliant post about what Patsy might have been thinking relating to those passages and their author--King David.

    It really gives me insight into how Patsy was able to maintain the facade she did all those years.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  5. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    Yep. Sounds about right to me.
    And the fact that she got rid of the previous nine pages, but left the "practice" note suggests she was making mistakes as she was running out of time.

  6. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Oops. "God" has a bad habit of forgetting little details when she's wielding a bludgeon in the battle against a six year old.

    Actually, I had forgotten who first brought that "S.B.T.C." passage up, or where I first read it, anyway. Thanks for the reminder.

    I've tracked down and put a lot of relevant quotes, about the Bible found with those circled passages, on that Websleuths thread, taken from the Ramseys' LE interviews; also from the Christian Broadcast Network interview.

    A poster there also made a brilliant post about what Patsy might have been thinking relating to those passages and their author--King David.

    It really gives me insight into how Patsy was able to maintain the facade she did all those years.
    Steve Thomas says the Bible was found open to Psalms 35 and 36 in the "third floor study." It's clear that Thomas is saying the Bible was found on the third floor, which was John and Patsy's bedroom. John had a desk there.

    Here's Linda Wilcox discussing that Bible in PMPT:

    "Then the detectives asked me about the Bible on John's desk in the bedroom. The cover was embossed John and Patsy Ramsey. Sometimes it was by the bed. It was always being read. I know, because I never had to dust it. I told the police that I never saw it open; it always had a bookmark in it."

    Unless the ransom note was written before the murder, that means an "intruder" was running around the bedroom while John and Patsy slept to get the inspiration for his sign-off in Patsy's favorite Bible.

    If the Bible was typically left closed, it may mean that Patsy left it open on purpose. She makes a point in the interviews of saying the Bible was John's and that she didn't have much to do with it, but I suspect that she was the one reading it all the time.

  7. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by fr brown View Post
    Steve Thomas says the Bible was found open to Psalms 35 and 36 in the "third floor study." It's clear that Thomas is saying the Bible was found on the third floor, which was John and Patsy's bedroom. John had a desk there.

    Here's Linda Wilcox discussing that Bible in PMPT:

    "Then the detectives asked me about the Bible on John's desk in the bedroom. The cover was embossed John and Patsy Ramsey. Sometimes it was by the bed. It was always being read. I know, because I never had to dust it. I told the police that I never saw it open; it always had a bookmark in it."

    Unless the ransom note was written before the murder, that means an "intruder" was running around the bedroom while John and Patsy slept to get the inspiration for his sign-off in Patsy's favorite Bible.

    If the Bible was typically left closed, it may mean that Patsy left it open on purpose. She makes a point in the interviews of saying the Bible was John's and that she didn't have much to do with it, but I suspect that she was the one reading it all the time.
    Here's some of what Patsy had to say about the Bible when questioned by Haney in'98. [From my Websleuths post.]

    10-27-2010, 10:28 PM
    KoldKase
    Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008
    Posts: 574

    Here are some quotes from Patsy's '98 LE interview regarding the open Bible on John's desk, and she appears to me to be very vague about it. (She wasn't asked about the Bible in her '97 interview.) Then she says she didn't know what John's Bible reading habits were...odd, considering her devotion to her religious beliefs. Finally she throws the "Bible" into a run down of why she thinks the intruder got into the house while they were at the Whites' house, meaning she's clearly aware of the issue of the circled Bible passages which John was being questioned about, as well, and wants to attribute those to an intruder. Remember that this Bible in question was upstairs in their bedroom suite on the third floor, where John had a desk/office area, which Patsy seemed to be as clueless about as much else in her home, by June 1998.

    From Patsy's interview with Haney and DeMuth, June 1998:


    Quote:
    9 TOM HANEY: Now we are up to 326, it is just
    10 one photo on that page.
    11 PATSY RAMSEY: This is on John's desk, a
    12 picture of Linda and John -- looks like his bible.
    13 TOM HANEY: Do you have any -- do you have
    14 different bibles.
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, we have a lot of bibles.
    16 TOM HANEY: Okay.
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know if they are
    18 different.
    19 TOM HANEY: You said it is his as opposed to
    20 being ours or yours.
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: I see what you mean. Well,
    22 yeah. I think it was his on his desk.
    23 TOM HANEY: Kept on his desk?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
    25 TOM HANEY: Is that where he normally had it
    0444
    1 or where it was normally kept.
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. He would read it there.
    3 TOM HANEY: You said you had other bibles.
    4 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
    5 TOM HANEY: Did you have one somewhere else
    6 that you particularly read out of?
    7 PATSY RAMSEY: I had a red, kind of red
    8 leather one that I would use.
    9 TOM HANEY: Okay. Do you know John's habit
    10 as far as reading the bible, was he cover to cover
    11 or --
    12 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't know. I don't
    13 really know his habits.
    14 TOM HANEY: Okay.
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: With that.
    16 TOM HANEY: Could it have been cover to cover
    17 or at random, depends on --
    18 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    19 TOM HANEY: Do you know if it would be left
    20 open to a particular page for a particular reason.
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    22 TOM HANEY: Now, in the house in addition to
    23 several bibles, you had a ton of books. Let's take a
    24 couple of minutes and talk about some of those, some
    25 which you may know something about, maybe you don't.
    Here, she doesn't remember, seldom went into John's office...BUT she's surprised John might leave the Bible open like that. She was rather obvious in her attempt to distance John and herself from that open Bible, I think.


    Quote:
    1 TRIP DEMUTH: I brought that photo out
    2 because I want to know, this is 287 and 226 are of the
    3 bible. Does it look unusual to have the bible open
    4 like that? Some people leave it open all the time.
    5 Other people like to have their desk tops cleared up.
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: John is pretty finicky about
    7 his desk top, you know. He -- yeah, I would think he
    8 would not leave it like that. I never went in there
    9 that much, so I didn't pay attention. My bathroom was
    10 around back here.
    11 TRIP DEMUTH: Well --
    12 PATSY RAMSEY: I would be surprised that he
    13 would leave that open.
    14 TRIP DEMUTH: I don't want so much to know
    15 what you would think it would be. Do you have a memory
    16 of how the bible was on top of the desk usually?
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I have no memory of that.
    And now we see that the Bible is sticking in her mind as evidence of that old intruder, roaming around the house, deciding to open John's Bible to circle some passages, being religious as he was in spite of his murdering ways. But if Patsy didn't know John's reading habits with his Bible, and she seldom went into his upstairs/bedroom office area, why would she think the intruder opened the Bible and circled the passages? It appears to me she's simply trying to point LE away from John and herself, which only makes sense to me if she knew exactly why that Bible was open to those passages.


    Quote:
    16 the 25th, there were four people in that house?
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: What?
    18 TOM HANEY: I am saying when you
    19 went to bed there were four people?
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: We don't know that.
    21 TOM HANEY: What do you think?
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: I have always
    23 thought that perhaps while we were gone, that
    24 the person or persons came into the house and
    25 were there when we got back.
    0600
    1 TOM HANEY: What makes you think
    2 that?
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: Because we were
    4 gone several hours, and they could have had
    5 their way with the house. Have known where
    6 flashlights were, where pads of paper were,
    7 where bibles were, where Christmas cards were,
    8 where -- you know. If we are gone three or four
    9 hours. No one knows for sure.
    10 TOM HANEY: Well, somebody knows?
    11 PATSY RAMSEY: Somebody knows,
    12 you're damn right somebody knows, and I want to
    13 find that.
    She's scared here, so her tone changes; she gets aggressive. She and her PI Armistead accuse Haney of "badgering" her. Words are flying and it's "multiple speakers" and we don't know what exactly the argument is about, except that Patsy and Armistead want Haney to stop his line of questioning.


    Quote:
    14 TOM HANEY: Let's just stay with
    15 your theory for a minute here. This thing that
    16 you mentioned, whether it's a theory or not.
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
    18 TOM HANEY: That while you're gone
    19 to the Whites somebody comes in?
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
    21 TOM HANEY: When you come home from
    22 the Whites, do you notice different lights on,
    23 do you notice doors open that weren't open?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    25 TOM HANEY: Okay, do you know--
    0601
    1 PATSY RAMSEY:
    2 (MULTIPLE SPEAKERS.)
    3 TOM HANEY: I am not badgering?
    4 PATSY RAMSEY:
    5 TOM HANEY: Except not in this way,
    6 I mean when --
    7 (MULTIPLE SPEAKERS.)
    8 TOM HANEY: That night when you
    9 came?
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: We haven't but
    11 other people have.
    12 TOM HANEY: Okay, and again both of
    13 us haven't been privy to everything the other
    14 one's done.
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: All right.
    Interesting.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  8. #116

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    I guess I may as well put the whole rundown here, while I'm at it, because the WS thread has led me to a firm mind about what the Ramseys were doing, with all their "clues." IOW, a lot of pieces of the evidence puzzle have fallen into place for me now. I follow what they were thinking, the "trail of evidence" they were leaving and why.

    Here are the quotes from JR's interviews I find relevant:

    10-27-2010, 09:01 PM
    KoldKase
    Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008
    Posts: 574

    Pulling from the Ramseys' LE interviews, I found this one from JR's, with Steve Thomas, in '97:

    [typos included]


    Quote:
    ST: John, this $118,000, is that a, do you believe that to be tied to your 95 bonus paid in 96?
    JR: Well, thatís, I mean that occurred to me later as I started to think about what that number meant, and I thought, gee that might have been the net amount of my bonus. I didnít even know that until we had, we went back and looked. And that was paid in February of 96, and was $118,223 or something like that. And I think thatís a plausible place where that number could have come from, and it certainly showed up in every pay stub of mine from then on, through the rest of the year. It was deferred compensation, so separate out of your gross pay. The only other logical theory that Iíve heard is this one that apparently you found a small book or a bible with some verses circled. And Father Rol also said I heard that 18th Palms was a very vengeful Psalms. And those are the two logical theories Iíve heard for that number.
    Then when asked about the ransom amount in 1998 by Smit and Prosecutor Kane, here's what John said about Psalm 118:

    [Notice how JR changes the topic suddenly in this first excerpt.]


    Quote:
    16 LOU SMIT: Okay. And I know, John, that it
    17 really hurts to talk about this guy, but that's
    18 probably all you've thought about since day one.
    19 You must have a mental picture of the type of
    20 person this is. I mean, in your mind. I know I
    21 have a mental picture of various people that I
    22 would look at. But I'm sure you think about this
    23 all the time.
    24 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, absolutely, everyday. You
    25 know. Of course, my first instinct is, it was a
    0040
    1 man. Because of some of the similarities,
    2 apparently in Patsy's handwriting, I wondered if
    3 it was a woman. The ransom note seemed childish,
    4 in terms of a young person. I think this person
    5 was very sick or trying to be very clever.
    6 You know, if they really wanted to do this, hurt
    7 us and walk away, why did they go to the trouble
    8 of leaving a ransom note? When Mike Bynum said,
    9 (Thank God they left a ransom note.̃ You know, why
    10 is that? And it finally dawned on me what he
    11 meant. They left us a piece of evidence. They were
    12 clever enough not to leave much else, apparently.
    13 I think it's say somebody that's very sick, thinks
    14 they're very clever, is playing games. You know,
    15 we heard about the two Bible verses, Psalms, that
    16 were circled in some book. I don't know, some
    17 book or not. I was not told that directly. We
    18 heard it through the backdoor.
    19 LOU SMIT: You didn't circle Bible passages?
    20 JOHN RAMSEY: (INAUDIBLE). They were leaving
    21 little clues to analyze this. I think entry was
    22 gained through the basement window.
    23 LOU SMIT: Why do you think that?
    24 JOHN RAMSEY: Because the window was cracked
    25 open. There was this large suitcase under it, as
    0041
    1 if it was used to climb out.
    Quote:
    18 MIKKE: And now it's been 18 months that
    19 you been thinking about that. Do you have any
    20 other thoughts on it? I mean, I know this has been
    21 -- you see, it has to have a correlation with you
    22 (INAUDIBLE).
    23 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I think that was just
    24 a bit coincidence. That was my net bonus after
    25 tax. And it wasn't exactly 118; it was 118 and
    0340
    1 something.
    2 MIKE KANE: Do you think this was a random
    3 figure as opposed to a purposeful figure?
    4 JOHN RAMSEY: A purposeful. I think there
    5 were a lot of things left around that were
    6 purposeful.
    7 MIKE KANE: But you haven't been able to --
    8 JOHN RAMSEY: I mean, the closest that
    9 I've come to have some believability is this
    10 theory that Father Rol came up with. There were
    11 psalms, which were circled in the Bible, which
    12 apparently were fairly vengeful psalms. 118 Psalms
    13 was a vengeful psalm in the King James Bible. It
    14 talked about victory (INAUDIBLE). I think I've
    15 read it a hundred times, I guess, (INAUDIBLE).
    16 I guess I would accept that kind of a tie more
    17 than I would the bonus amount.
    More from the 1998 interview with JR:

    Quote:
    9 LOU SMIT: You said you looked at
    10 a biblical theme. In what sense?
    11 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, just because we
    12 had heard there were psalms circled, possible
    13 118 being 118th psalm and there was some, I
    14 think some interesting things there. So I tried
    15 to just take it another step, does SBTC mean
    16 anything in the bible. I couldn't.
    17 MIKE KANE: Did you do some
    18 research yourself in that regard?
    19 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
    20 MIKE KANE: What kinds of things
    21 were you looking in the bible for?
    22 JOHN RAMSEY: Any time I pick
    23 up the bible I look in the index. I read
    24 passages, I read thinking does that stand for
    25 anything. You know, looked in the dictionary.
    0476
    1 I looked it up on the Internet, there is a Web
    2 site called SBTC, it's a little bit bizarre, as
    3 far as I could tell.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  9. #117

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    This poster put Patsy's frame of mind into perspective for me with this brilliant post:

    Yesterday, 12:24 AM
    joeskidbeck
    Weeping may endureth for a night...but joy cometh in the morning! Join Date: Feb 2005
    Location: Georgia
    Posts: 956

    KK, this may not help you in your quest for the Ramsey's reliance on the Psalms, but are you aware that King David (the writer of most of the Psalms) lost a son to death? He also had a man killed in order to have his wife. Yet the bible tells us he was a man after God's own heart. For me, this shows that even though we are all human and make mistakes, God is willing to forgive if we are truly contrite, as David obviously was.
    Now, the part about losing his son. One of my favorite sayings of David's concerned this death. He said "I cannot bring him back, but I can go to where he is". I believe one of the reasons the Ramseys relied so heavily on the Psalms is that they felt such a kinship to King David and they knew that if God had forgiven him for his multitude of sins, He would surely forgive them. My thoughts could be the furthest thing from the actual truth, but after careful consideration, I really do believe the R's based a lot of their faith on what the Psalmist wrote. What bothers me is that God knows our hearts and our pretentions of faith are wasted on Him.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  10. #118

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    Here is where I am now in my thinking: these pieces of evidence are tied up for me in what the Ramseys were trying to lead LE to believe was in the MIND of the intruder(s). This is why the long ransom note, the Bible verses circled, the use of "118" in the ransom amount.

    [BTW, there is are good posters writing good stuff on this WS thread, if y'all have time and are inclined.]

    http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117338

    Yesterday, 05:36 PM
    KoldKase
    Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008
    Posts: 574

    Wow. Just wow.

    Y'all are rocking it.

    I found myself thinking about this and realizing how many times the Ramseys have told us exactly what THEY WANT US TO BELIEVE--the Team Ramsey talking points/intruder list. In their interviews, they go over and over the details of the evidence and how that leads to their intruder, WHY that "creature" went after them, WHAT he did that night in their home, etc. They knew and remembered so many details of the evidence that pointed to the intruder, but so few details about their own property, actions, and children.

    Even in 1998, they knew so many details about the evidence, when looking at what they specified and explained in those LE interviews, it becomes clear to me: THEY WANTED those Biblical passages of revenge to be interpreted as WHY this "creature" went after them. Revenge. The note was meant to inspire fear. Target--nebulous; was it the "government" but not AG; was it "two gentlemen watching over her don't like you" John? Certainly it wasn't Patsy, because she was cut out of the note in an early practice. Was it JonBenet herself, the victim of some pageant pervert? Yet she was just a tool in the ransom note, an innocent used as a means to achieve an end. But her body tells another story eventually--but only after the ransom note has presented a red herring.

    The plan: with the ransom note pointing to intruders, when the body was quickly found by LE after they arrived, the Ramseys, protected by the confusion and number of friends around, could get out to the ready-to-fly plane and head out of town faster than the BPD could figure out it was all staged. Who could blame them for that, with those terrorists after them?

    But even the best laid plan will go awry, and they were winging it--no pun intended. The BPD didn't find the body! Nor did anyone else. No wonder they sent Linda Arndt flowers.

    So if this is the gist of it, then the Ramseys went to a lot of trouble to set up the staging, didn't they? So much so, that it was all darn near impossible to follow. So when Patsy and John finally got to talk to LE, especially so-easy-to-manipulate Smit, they could at last make use of those obscure "clues" they left. They kept explaining this and that, pointing fingers here and there, but always it was someone else's idea, not theirs: Father Rol, Lou Smit, etc. I'd be money that it wasn't Father Rol's idea at all that the ransom note amount was linked to a Bible verse. John and other sources said they sat around that morning, in the home, reading the copy of the ransom note, trying to "figure it out." I bet they did.

    So when looking at John and Patsy's interviews with LE, when they denied recognizing things, often something any wife or husband should have known about the other, I know they're trying to distance themselves, afraid of disclosing info that might reveal the truth: like what John's habits were in reading his Bible, whether he left it open sometimes, but then claiming oh, no, that would be unusual, then changing the topic--they wanted LE to believe the intruder circled those passages, I believe; whether JonBenet washed her hands or her bathing or bathroom habits--they didn't want to give out info that might end up pointing the finger at them; what medications a spouse took--didn't want to implicate anyone's state of mind; etc.

    So looking at these passages, drawing in the Ramseys' many stories about them and the Bible and God and the ransom note, it all begins to make sense. The tone in the ransom note was meant to lead LE to believe an intruder wanted revenge for something--but hey, not to hurt Access Graphics, that money machine that they needed to keep themselves rich and influential, especially now that they'd be paying big lawyer fees.

    I know, I'm going on and on, but I sort of put some things together in my mind last night that I had waivered about until now. One is that I believe John Ramsey was in on the cover up, at least. I see this because he lied so many times about what really happened BEFORE the murder: he said he carried JB upstairs and took off her coat and shoes--but her coat was in the car, not somewhere he'd likely take it after removing it in the home; he said he read the ransom note on the floor, on his hands and knees, a story so fantastic I can only imagine how they tripped up there. The story about the broken window is patently impossible, as far as I can re-enact it--you can't back out of a narrow window well on your hands and knees and drop 4 ft. to the floor without flopping on your belly, scratching heck out of your bare knees--took his suit off but left his shoes on? Why wouldn't he just sit down and scoot through lke Smit? Obviously John's story has huge holes in it. However/whenever it got broken, John was lying, IMO.

    The Ramseys not only denied that JonBenet ate pineapple after they returned home because they put her to bed asleep, but John said he didn't recognize the bowl as theirs; Patsy implied it wasn't even their pineapple. Patsy never used duct tape, she claimed, though it's clearly seen in crime scene photos of the basement, on boxes in the room where she had her wrapping paper and clear plastic boxes of ribbons...and other "stuff" to tie things. John denied having any such duct tape and said White did, HE was the sailor, not himself, White would know knots, etc, not John; though Patsy identified John and his older children as competing in sailing competitions two years in a row in her Christmas letters, with John even designing his second sailboat; she wrote about Burke taking sailing lessons and called Burke a sailor, no less.

    Obviously, I could go on and on...but my point is both the Ramseys were lying to LE, lying to the public, and unless someone can explain another credible reason for that, it only makes sense they'd do that to cover up for a killer if that person was one or more of those in the home that night.

    Now looking at the religious "clues" left behind, in the ransom note and Bible passages circled, in the Ramseys interviews where they kept repeating those elements as motive, I see what they were trying to use as motive for the intruder to kill JonBenet--revenge, righteous and absolute in the mind of the "intruder," irrational "creature" thinking, coming from someone whose mental state was as unquestioning as faith and impenetrable as the mind of God. So there's never going to be "an explanation," just a void filled with "healing" and "forgiveness" for the Ramseys.

    And God will get them through this "calamity" as well, because Patsy was the source of that faith, after all, the ransom note, the Bible passages. VICTORY!

    So JonBenet was in heaven, all happy and no suffering, Patsy was going there, too, and all the suffering they caused others with their lies and destruction--VICTORY! And they live--and die--"just fine," as Patsy put it.

    Yet another coincidence with the intruder: he was extremely religious, too. The Ramseys pointed to those clues many times, "left behind" by the person who wrote the ransom note.

    Thank you, Plenum and others who have clarified this for me. I have looked for a long time for these answers to the psychology of the Ramseys and how it manifested into the staging the night of this murder.

    Now to see if and/or how that applies to the violence acted upon JonBenet....

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  11. #119

    Default

    But why use the Bible on John's desk at all? Why leave it open? She could have used one of the other Bibles she talks about, then put it back on the shelf wherever it lived. Leaving the Bible in their bedroom open to the page she used for her sign-off didn't deflect attention from them. The cops found it interesting enough to take a photograph of it.

    Then she identifies the Bible as John's in the interview. That sort of points the finger at him. I'm tending to think that it was part of Patsy's attempt to frame John, but with enough subtlety so that she had plausible deniability.

  12. #120

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fr brown View Post
    But why use the Bible on John's desk at all? Why leave it open? She could have used one of the other Bibles she talks about, then put it back on the shelf wherever it lived. Leaving the Bible in their bedroom open to the page she used for her sign-off didn't deflect attention from them. The cops found it interesting enough to take a photograph of it.

    Then she identifies the Bible as John's in the interview. That sort of points the finger at him. I'm tending to think that it was part of Patsy's attempt to frame John, but with enough subtlety so that she had plausible deniability.
    I think in the short time they had to come up with the plan, they got a bit confused from time to time. Just guessing, but Patsy states in her '98 interview with Haney (see above) that she believes the "intruder" was there while they were gone. I think that was their original story. So circling the Bible upstairs, in the private of their own bedroom suite, implied this killer had the house to himself and roamed around in it, invading their privacy to leave clues they personally would recognize as a real threat of religious vengence.

    Since I believe John was in on the cover up that night/morning, as I stated above, I don't think Patsy meant to point to John, just an intruder. The ransom note was written to include John as the target, Patsy was literally written out of the script, something they didn't mean to be known but for the remainder of "Mr. and Mrs. I" found above the tear in the pad. So it makes sense they'd say it was John's Bible...?

    Of course, this is just what I believe, what makes sense to me. I don't expect anyone else to think as I do.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.



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