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  1. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat View Post
    No need to pout if you think that I know something that you don't because that is NOT the case! It's been stated way before my reminder that not all of the evidence has been made public! Candy has insinuated for years that there was a cigar box, that's something I've never heard from anyone but her. We really need your brilliant head in the game right now, KK - I'm sorry if you seriously think that I am not sharing information with you - never was that my intention. Just trying to remind people that NOT all of the evidence has been revealed, common knowledge, Lady.

    RR
    Courtesy of Little

    - Steve Thomas - "JonBenét" From Page 324

    Smit slowly leafed through notebooks filled with evidence pictures, asking Ramsey if he noticed anything different, unusual, or out of place. The common theme was that plenty of things were strange. A box of tissues did not belong there, a pillow missing here, dust and dirt disturbed elsewhere. To Ramsey it looked as though the Tupperware container in JonBenet's bedroom had something in it (the same thing Lou Smit believed). Ramsey's testimony seemed very well rehearsed. Ramsey almost seemed to know the answers before the questions were asked. A cigar box was out of place, as was his golf bag. He pointed out marks on a keyhole and noted that an Easter basket had been moved.
    Last edited by Moab; October 1, 2010, 11:46 am at Fri Oct 1 11:46:55 UTC 2010. Reason: Fix font size
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  2. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Courtesy of Little
    Thanks, Ladies! I still would love to know if the cigar box was placed under JonBenet's head as I was told...

    Edited to add...since we now know that this is an ACTIVE investigation, I'm afraid that what's left unsaid for now is for the best. Koldkase, You have been very Instrumental, but it's not just because of your Brain & Computer...you forgot to mention the most important things to have when involved in a situation like this...Your Heart, Your Common Sense, Your Voice and Your Stamina! You are far from alone in NEEDING to know that your hard work has not been in vain, we just have to accept the fact that we may never have that validation, but you need to realize that by choosing to be one of the Top Warriors for JonBenet is something that we all respect and honor and are eternally grateful that you have shared your talent with us here and The World!
    "Don't play dumb with me, RR! You're no good at it." The Punisher

    "Although no one is anticipating a prompt resolution to this long and much-detoured case, perhaps - just perhaps - might we see one of those moments “when a chance arrow of history scores a perfect bullseye on a deserving target”? Steve Thomas 2009

    "Justice hasn't had a chance so far. Anyone who doesn't have this as their prime goal, we'll have a falling out with." Fleet White - Time Magazine

    "What happens is that evil comes in," Fleet says. "If you don't have truth, all you have are lies, then what comes in is evil. And evil just does its thing. In the Ramsey case, it just did its thing, and it's eaten up so many people."

  3. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    Wasn't there mention of illegal cuban cigars in a cigar box in the basement when Haney interviewed JR? Remember Haney said, "I used to be a Fed." I think they were looking at photos taken in the basement. I think it's in ST's book. That's all I know about a cigar box. JR said it had been given to him as a gift at some time or another.

    KK, I thought the pout smile was cute. Way to throw a fit kiddo! lol!
    Why thank you. Fit-throwing is my specialty. It's the Irish in me.

    Oh, yeah, thaaaat cigar box! Gosh, they just wouldn't arrest JR for anything, would they?!

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  4. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat View Post
    You have to ask Candy - she's the one that hold Darnay's secrets (not very well though), not I! I just wanted to make sure that no one thought that I had anything to offer when I am sitting here anticipating the same things that you are. I don't believe that Tricia should be lumped in with the others you referenced though...like I said, if you want something new revealed, the closest shot that you have is through Candy about the Cigar Box that she told me was placed under JonBenet's head - I am tired of keeping that one for her and I'm quite sure that I am not the only one that she passed this on to...tired of not knowing if it's true or not and HOW a nobody that has spent decades sorting mail at the University of Michigan became Darnay's Mouthpiece and given case confidential information ala Smit/Wood/Sue Bennett and WHY it is not held accountable!!!

    Slack IS cut - just Please don't Rub it in You said you wanted info - I pointed you to someone that has it!

    Good Morning -
    RR
    A cigar box UNDER JB'S HEAD? Well, that would be interesting, if true.

    You know I'd never lump Tricia in with anyone except...well...she did just let loose with a few "evidence" bombs that seem pretty significant if her source is impeccable.

    I hope you also know that I'm only throwing a pout because I knew--look back on a recent discussion thread--that this latest episode of media BS would result in MORE disinformation being spread far and wide about this case in the form of stupid Ramsey supporters. Nancy Grace last night was the worst recounting of a cold case I have ever seen in my entire life, so badly done by that crew of self-promoting egotists I can't imagine how anyone can consider that show more than a group of incompetent jerks who have no concept of truth or justice.

    Add to that the fact that the media can't even get a simple story about whether or not Burke actually talked to LE right, and you have the perfect example of where this case went wrong 14 years ago. It's just a bunch of narcissists looking to make a buck on JB's back, no conscience or conscientiousness allowed.

    Okay, now I am pizzed!

    As far as Tricia, I know she has inside sources who trust her, and that's a good thing. Still, all these years later there is little-to-no help from those "inside" the case who are not going to ever get it to trial--and they know it. Sure, in a perfect justice system, no one should be leaking stuff. But hello? There's no way the justice system in Boulder nor Team Ramsey's WORLD-CLASS-DETECTIVES have come anywhere near finding justice for a little girl who got broken like a doll herself. They sank this investigation on Day One, and we've been bailing as fast as we can, trying to keep it above water ever since. And obviously, we're the only ones who will ever throw down the truth first, as best as we can find it with our moral pen lights in the dark and a torn map, wading through the bullchit and hogwash the "professionals" have shot out of their azzes for 14 years!

    And if ANYONE has put herself on the line to tell the truth, unvarnished and unapologetic, with kiss-my-grits courage and her bank account, to boot, it's TRICIA! YOU GO, GIRL! You have told the truth like NO ONE ELSE in this case besides Steve Thomas. EVER!

    Sure, we're just Internet "case groupies" and wingnutz, but we happen to do more for this case and JonBenet than anyone else, and that's down the line to the Ramsey groupies because at least we still care enough to keep taking the case apart and putting it back together again, learning all we can, and talking about it. Otherwise, I don't think anyone would even mention this in the news anymore, because it's clearly a dead end case.

    So yeah, my feelies would be hurt on that score, except I told Tricia long ago not to tell me anything she didn't want the world to know, because I'm likely to slip up and fat-finger it all over the board. I'm not capable of keeping a secret because I have a disease known as Big Mouth Syndrome. I'm not even capable of understanding how keeping secrets when a child has been murdered is an option. Certainly not at this point. Dammit!

    Add in that I'm just old and grumpy for good measure, now, and I need that slack you're cutting me more than ever. My humor, like the rest of me, is getting dryer and dryer. I've even taken to adding "just kidding" to stuff I write, so those who aren't as jaded and cynical as I make no mistake, I'M LAUGHING ON THE INSIDE. :
    Last edited by koldkase; October 1, 2010, 12:38 pm at Fri Oct 1 12:38:10 UTC 2010.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
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    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
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  5. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat View Post
    Thanks, Ladies! I still would love to know if the cigar box was placed under JonBenet's head as I was told...

    Edited to add...since we now know that this is an ACTIVE investigation, I'm afraid that what's left unsaid for now is for the best. Koldkase, You have been very Instrumental, but it's not just because of your Brain & Computer...you forgot to mention the most important things to have when involved in a situation like this...Your Heart, Your Common Sense, Your Voice and Your Stamina! You are far from alone in NEEDING to know that your hard work has not been in vain, we just have to accept the fact that we may never have that validation, but you need to realize that by choosing to be one of the Top Warriors for JonBenet is something that we all respect and honor and are eternally grateful that you have shared your talent with us here and The World!
    That's very kind of you, Rat, and thank you for trying.

    I am having trouble swallowing the "active case" claptrap being spun out of Colorado once again. It may be active, in that a cold case squad has given Burke some business cards...and who knows? Maybe they're even re-testing some of the evidence, like the garrote cord, for that ol' "touch" DNA. But there is no possiblity of any trial, only a confession. How is that going to happen when the only people who hold the keys to the truth have bolted that door for good?

    So the BPD asked...and then someone leaked it? And we're off again. Pfft! Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. That makes this entire thing insane by definition.

    Believe me, I'm not looking for any kind of validation for keeping on top of this case as a private citizen. I don't need my actions to be validated, as they're mine and my choice. If it wasn't important to me, I wouldn't do it.

    It is important to me for more than the fact that I don't much like it when someone molests and kills a child. Getting away with it--really steams my buns. But I also am bitterly disappointed to discover that I've been a naive, ignorant, easily manipulated "good citizen" my whole life, believing the "blind justice" hype, while the most corrupt people in this country have been the ones manipulating me to the benefit of those who can buy their way through breaking the law, bending and warping whatever necessary to do so. This is why I have to ask myself everyday why such crimes not only go unpunished, but why they occur at all. This is why we can't do anything about it, either.

    What a fool I have been, defending the very system that I see now is as indefensible as those running it and those of us letting them. "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."

    The one-eyed men (and women) can't help who they are anymore than the rest of us, I guess. They have no spiritual self-awareness. They lie, deceive, make unethical deals, and celebrate the results. They do not believe that their arrogance and moral dissolution will bring their own damnation--look at Alex Hunter, whose ability to dissemble and obstruct the law while working at its heart has led to the worst fate I can imagine. I would choose living in a refrigerator box under a bridge in a real gutter every day before I'd choose his destiny. The same with Patsy and the same with John: I shiver to imagine the hell they share.

    Still, whatever that hell is, it's their hell, and Colorado LE isn't fooling Burke or John or their attorneys.

    So I'll just keep ranting when I see the innocent child dancing across my screen, gyrating and singing her best for the adults who taught her this was a good thing, while failing to protect her when it went so terribly wrong. We can't do anything for JonBenet, and really, we never could. We just didn't know it.

    Not solving this case was something I could understand--I hate it, but detectives are just humans, and it happens every day. Deliberately destroying the case from inside the Halls of Justice--I'll never forgive those who have willfully participated in that, not until they come clean and restore faith in our government. Without that, they've struck at the heart of every American, and therefore the core of America.

    And THAT'S why this case won't go away.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  6. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    that's very kind of you, rat, and thank you for trying.

    I am having trouble swallowing the "active case" claptrap being spun out of colorado once again. It may be active, in that a cold case squad has given burke some business cards...and who knows? Maybe they're even re-testing some of the evidence, like the garrote cord, for that ol' "touch" dna. But there is no possiblity of any trial, only a confession. How is that going to happen when the only people who hold the keys to the truth have bolted that door for good?

    So the bpd asked...and then someone leaked it? And we're off again. Pfft! Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. That makes this entire thing insane by definition.

    Believe me, i'm not looking for any kind of validation for keeping on top of this case as a private citizen. I don't need my actions to be validated, as they're mine and my choice. If it wasn't important to me, i wouldn't do it.

    It is important to me for more than the fact that i don't much like it when someone molests and kills a child. Getting away with it--really steams my buns. But i also am bitterly disappointed to discover that i've been a naive, ignorant, easily manipulated "good citizen" my whole life, believing the "blind justice" hype, while the most corrupt people in this country have been the ones manipulating me to the benefit of those who can buy their way through breaking the law, bending and warping whatever necessary to do so. This is why i have to ask myself everyday why such crimes not only go unpunished, but why they occur at all. This is why we can't do anything about it, either.

    What a fool i have been, defending the very system that i see now is as indefensible as those running it and those of us letting them. "in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."

    the one-eyed men (and women) can't help who they are anymore than the rest of us, i guess. They have no spiritual self-awareness. They lie, deceive, make unethical deals, and celebrate the results. They do not believe that their arrogance and moral dissolution will bring their own damnation--look at alex hunter, whose ability to dissemble and obstruct the law while working at its heart has led to the worst fate i can imagine. I would choose living in a refrigerator box under a bridge in a real gutter every day before i'd choose his destiny. The same with patsy and the same with john: I shiver to imagine the hell they share.

    Still, whatever that hell is, it's their hell, and colorado le isn't fooling burke or john or their attorneys.

    So i'll just keep ranting when i see the innocent child dancing across my screen, gyrating and singing her best for the adults who taught her this was a good thing, while failing to protect her when it went so terribly wrong. We can't do anything for jonbenet, and really, we never could. We just didn't know it.

    Not solving this case was something i could understand--i hate it, but detectives are just humans, and it happens every day. Deliberately destroying the case from inside the halls of justice--i'll never forgive those who have willfully participated in that, not until they come clean and restore faith in our government. Without that, they've struck at the heart of every american, and therefore the core of america.

    And that's why this case won't go away.
    Brava!!! Brava!!!

    I think one of the reasons the Ramsey case sticks in my craw is because I have personal knowledge of the corruption that let JonBenet's killers go free and made justice impossible. The icing on the cake was when her killers THEN started persecuting innocent individuals in an effort to throw people off their own trail. It's one thing to get away with murder (accidental or otherwise), but it's absolute evil to try to name names and destroy other human beings in order to save your own skin.

    So the Ramseys are guilty of AT LEAST three crimes:

    1. JonBenet's death (accidental or not)
    2. The cover-up
    3. The intentional destruction of innocent people for their own gain

    I will NEVER get over being witness to this travesty of justice. It has been deliberate and devastating. I will never again believe in our so-called justice system. I now know there is one system for the rich and powerful and another for the rest of us. Like some kind of deranged Energizer Bunny, that knowledge is a gift the Ramsey case just keeps on giving and giving and giving .....
    Last edited by Cherokee; October 1, 2010, 7:33 pm at Fri Oct 1 19:33:01 UTC 2010.

  7. #19
    RiverRat's Avatar
    RiverRat is offline FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Left is Patsy Ramsey)
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    That's very kind of you, Rat, and thank you for trying.

    I am having trouble swallowing the "active case" claptrap being spun out of Colorado once again. It may be active, in that a cold case squad has given Burke some business cards...and who knows? Maybe they're even re-testing some of the evidence, like the garrote cord, for that ol' "touch" DNA. But there is no possiblity of any trial, only a confession. How is that going to happen when the only people who hold the keys to the truth have bolted that door for good?

    So the BPD asked...and then someone leaked it? And we're off again. Pfft! Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. That makes this entire thing insane by definition.

    Believe me, I'm not looking for any kind of validation for keeping on top of this case as a private citizen. I don't need my actions to be validated, as they're mine and my choice. If it wasn't important to me, I wouldn't do it.

    It is important to me for more than the fact that I don't much like it when someone molests and kills a child. Getting away with it--really steams my buns. But I also am bitterly disappointed to discover that I've been a naive, ignorant, easily manipulated "good citizen" my whole life, believing the "blind justice" hype, while the most corrupt people in this country have been the ones manipulating me to the benefit of those who can buy their way through breaking the law, bending and warping whatever necessary to do so. This is why I have to ask myself everyday why such crimes not only go unpunished, but why they occur at all. This is why we can't do anything about it, either.

    What a fool I have been, defending the very system that I see now is as indefensible as those running it and those of us letting them. "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."

    The one-eyed men (and women) can't help who they are anymore than the rest of us, I guess. They have no spiritual self-awareness. They lie, deceive, make unethical deals, and celebrate the results. They do not believe that their arrogance and moral dissolution will bring their own damnation--look at Alex Hunter, whose ability to dissemble and obstruct the law while working at its heart has led to the worst fate I can imagine. I would choose living in a refrigerator box under a bridge in a real gutter every day before I'd choose his destiny. The same with Patsy and the same with John: I shiver to imagine the hell they share.

    Still, whatever that hell is, it's their hell, and Colorado LE isn't fooling Burke or John or their attorneys.

    So I'll just keep ranting when I see the innocent child dancing across my screen, gyrating and singing her best for the adults who taught her this was a good thing, while failing to protect her when it went so terribly wrong. We can't do anything for JonBenet, and really, we never could. We just didn't know it.

    Not solving this case was something I could understand--I hate it, but detectives are just humans, and it happens every day. Deliberately destroying the case from inside the Halls of Justice--I'll never forgive those who have willfully participated in that, not until they come clean and restore faith in our government. Without that, they've struck at the heart of every American, and therefore the core of America.

    And THAT'S why this case won't go away.
    I would have major problem if you did not keep on Ranting about Those that have more than Earned one of your Lashings!

    I firmly believe that YES WE HAVE done something for JonBenet though!!! Picture this case without any involvement from this very group, a lone group founded and bounded by our common passion for keeping THE TRUTH out in front of The Spin since she can't speak for herself...that thought of that breaks my heart because then she would have never had a snowballs chance in hellllll again as far as keeping her murder case from being buried deeper than she is....No, we could not be there that night to save her from her fate and I know that any of us would jump at that chance, but we can keep our heads held high knowing that FFJ Members have done more for her than her own family has. How could she be denied our attention? Not possible in any person that is still here and in my opinion, that is a very honorable way to exert your energy, especially during the most frustrating moments like this.

    RR
    "Don't play dumb with me, RR! You're no good at it." The Punisher

    "Although no one is anticipating a prompt resolution to this long and much-detoured case, perhaps - just perhaps - might we see one of those moments “when a chance arrow of history scores a perfect bullseye on a deserving target”? Steve Thomas 2009

    "Justice hasn't had a chance so far. Anyone who doesn't have this as their prime goal, we'll have a falling out with." Fleet White - Time Magazine

    "What happens is that evil comes in," Fleet says. "If you don't have truth, all you have are lies, then what comes in is evil. And evil just does its thing. In the Ramsey case, it just did its thing, and it's eaten up so many people."

  8. #20
    RiverRat's Avatar
    RiverRat is offline FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Left is Patsy Ramsey)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee View Post
    Brava!!! Brava!!!

    I think one of the reasons the Ramsey case sticks in my craw is because I have personal knowledge of the corruption that let JonBenet's killers go free and made justice impossible. The icing on the cake was when her killers THEN started persecuting innocent individuals in an effort to throw people off their own trail. It's one thing to get away with murder (accidental or otherwise), but it's absolute evil to try to name names and destroy other human beings in order to save your own skin.

    So the Ramseys are guilty of AT LEAST three crimes:

    1. JonBenet's death (accidental or not)
    2. The cover-up
    3. The intentional destruction of innocent people for their own gain

    I will NEVER get over being witness to this travesty of justice. It has been deliberate and devastating. I will never again believe in our so-called justice system. I now know there is one system for the rich and powerful and another for the rest of us. Like some kind of deranged Energizer Bunny, that knowledge is a gift the Ramsey case just keeps on giving and giving and giving .....
    BRAVO, BRAVO!!! Hate to have to copycat, but a post from your heart & soul like this deserves it's own recognition!

    Thank You,
    RR
    Last edited by Cherokee; October 1, 2010, 7:33 pm at Fri Oct 1 19:33:35 UTC 2010. Reason: my typo
    "Don't play dumb with me, RR! You're no good at it." The Punisher

    "Although no one is anticipating a prompt resolution to this long and much-detoured case, perhaps - just perhaps - might we see one of those moments “when a chance arrow of history scores a perfect bullseye on a deserving target”? Steve Thomas 2009

    "Justice hasn't had a chance so far. Anyone who doesn't have this as their prime goal, we'll have a falling out with." Fleet White - Time Magazine

    "What happens is that evil comes in," Fleet says. "If you don't have truth, all you have are lies, then what comes in is evil. And evil just does its thing. In the Ramsey case, it just did its thing, and it's eaten up so many people."

  9. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat View Post
    BRAVO, BRAVO!!! Hate to have to copycat, but a post from your heart & soul like this deserves it's own recognition!

    Thank You,
    RR
    Thank you, my dear Rat. At least I know I am surrounded by friends who understand when I feel the need to rant and rave about something so blatently unfair, unethical, immoral, and infuriating!

    The Ramsey's book of lies, Death of Innocence, has such an ironic title. Not only does the title have nothing to do with JonBenet (if she was the reference, the grammatically-correct phrase would be Death of An Innocent since JonBenet cannot physically or metaphorically encompass ALL "innocence"), but Death of Innocence is exactly what has happened to those of us who used to believe in American justice.

    Thank you, John and Patsy, for killing that belief. And a big thank you to all of those who helped them - including, but not limited to - Alex Hunter, Hal Haddon, Lou Smit, Mary Keenan Lacy, Lin Wood, Michael Tracey, and the hundreds of fawning, ill-informed, non-fact-checking reporters, journalists and interviewers through the years who, literally, have let the Ramsey get away with murder.

    I realize the Ramseys were probably referring to the alleged death of THEIR innocence with the book title since everything has always been about them anyway. It's always been about THEIR suffering, not JonBenet's; about how much they hated Steve Thomas, not JonBenet's killer; about how much they wanted THEIR life back, but not one word about wanting JonBenet back. No, all the Ramseys said about JonBenet was that she'd fulfilled her purpose and if she'd lived, she'd have been a "handful." John's exact quote.

    Death of innocence indeed.

  10. #22
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    KK wrote:
    Why thank you. Fit-throwing is my specialty. It's the Irish in me.
    Which part of Ireland, KK? My mother was born in Killybegs, Donegal. My father's side came from Sligo. Not too far from Donegal. I wonder why when we all have a hissy fit we all seem to end up back in Ireland?
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  11. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobC View Post
    I thought Tricia did an amazing job!!! And yes--at least one doll was left with Jonbenet. These are the little details that have been lost in the media over the years. Kid killers don't give a damn about their victims.

    Good job, T!!!!
    Okay, Bob and Tricia ... looking for some clarification here:

    Was there one doll or several dolls left with JonBenet's body?

  12. #24
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    I would have to look that stuff up again, but if I recall correctly there was just one doll found with JBR and there was also the Barbie nightgown, which is where the multiple doll confusion may have sprung from. The fact that these items were found with the body, showed that the killer had great remorse and wanted to comfort JBR.

    Can anyone else recall? If there was more than one doll, it's the first I've heard of it.



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