Ah ha! John LIED About Pineapple!

PS I did finally get Cookie to answer the question of whether she had ever seen a bowl with pineapple and milk at the Ramseys, and she said no, she personally had not.

Oh, wait...maybe it was did she see anyone drink tea like that, with a bag in a tall glass....

Oh shoot. I can't remember. One or the other. Or both. Whatevah.

 

I have a question:

13 This is a photograph of 417. what does that
14 represent there?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it's a large spoon, not
16 a teaspoon. It looks like Patsy's good silver. I
17 guess that could be pineapple, I can't tell. But
18 it could be. Some people (INAUDIBLE) pineapple to
19 make it old and there's this teabag in an empty
20 glass. I can't tell, but it looks like there is
21 some milk or something.
22 LOU SMIT: Who do you know would eat
23 pineapple like that? Do you have any idea?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: Well the kids like pineapple,
25 but that's a big bowl and this is a big spoon and
0208
1 I can't imagine that the kids would have something
2 like that at any time. Certainly not with iced
3 tea, I don't think. They don't even drink iced
4 tea. I think they do not.


HOW did JR know it was iced tea? How did anyone? If it was just a tea bag in a glass?

 

Maybe that's just a generic term because the bag was in a glass and most people drink cold tea in glasses while hot tea is in cups.

My question is: some people blank pineapple to make it old ... whaaa?

 

LOU SMIT: Who do you know would eat pineapple like that? Do you have any idea?

Patsy?
John?
Burke?
JonBenet?
Intruder?

Q. Who would think to ask about fictional characters from a book and play that Patsy took her pageant talent performances from?

A. No one.

But that is the correct answer to Lou's question.

 

Off The Subject

Since this thread is about JR, I had an interesting conversation with a former cop and SWAT team leader from the Longmont BP. Longmont, if you don't know, is a suburb just north of Boulder, still in Boulder County. I just happened to meet him at a local coffee shop here in Denver where he was playing his guitar at an open mike night. We just started talking and when I found out he personally knew Linda Arndt, the ex-cop told me something interesting that I didn't know. Linda told him that right after JR came upstairs with JBR's body, the first thing JR told her is that he had to leave for Atlanta right away for a business trip. This cop and I both thought it odd for him to state something like that, considering what had just happened. What do you gals think?

 

Here's a guy's perspective. When a person gets caught in a "traumatic" situation they often adopt the "I'm not here, this isn't really happening" self diverting/self defense mechanism. If they can't get physically away, they get mentally away. I think John did one and then tried to do the other. Remember the reports of the distance between John and Patsy, and John disappearing for a time. What a lame excuse, a business trip? Not very rational.

 

A loving, caring, innocent, even shocked dad would have screamed, " OMG, who did this to my daughter?" Imo, they wouldn't have reacted with the comment, "I have to leave for for a business trip to Atlanta."
Normal people just don't react that way.

 

But then why didn't Linda Arndt ever mention this publicly?
Linda Arndt seems to have changed her version of events quite often.
For example, at first she stated that John Ramsey, on discovering the body had told her "it has to be an inside job".
Three years later, on national TV, she described the event differently, revealing information she never put in her police reports: "As we looked at each other, I wore a shoulder holster, I remember tucking my gun right next to me and consciously counting I've got eighteen bullets", she said . "I didn't know if we'd all be alive when people showed up. ... Everything made sense in that instant, and I knew what happened" (ST, p. 29).
No mention of John telling her he wanted to go to Atlanta.

According to S.Thomas' book, a detective overheard John Ramsey at 1:40 p.m. telling his pilot to ready his plane for a flight to Atlanta.

If Linda Arndt was so convinced of John Ramsey being involved in all this, why then did she later accept a bunch of flowers from the Ramseys, happily telling ST they were "from Patsy and John"? ST's sarcastic comment in his book was that detectives normally don't get flowers from suspects.

How credible is Linda Arndt? How professionally competent was she? How accurate is her memory re past events?

Det. Arndt contaminated forensic evidence by moving JB'd dead body around, she allowed John Ramsey to touch the body and throw a blanket over it (she even adjusted the blanket herself!), and she allowed another person to throw a sweatshirt over JB's feet.
And when later the Ramseys simply left the crime scene, she did not say one word to stop them. SOP in such cases should have been to take the Ramseys to the police station, not allowing them to speak to each other, collect their clothing and question them separately (like in the Stephanie Crowe case).

BTW, in her deposition, Arndt said she did "a great job" ...

 

Ya, what rashomon said.

 

I'm interested in what JR did NOT say....here he finds his daughter's body after hours of waiting for a kidnapper's call. Not only does he not comment when the deadline passes and no call is received, but when he discovers the body, he doesn't seem at all confused...he doesn't say 'Why leave a ransom note when they have killed her'? He doesn't say 'This makes no sense'...'He doesn't say we checked the basement already'....etc Finding his daughter dead in his own home when she was supposed to be kidnapped seemed 'expected' rather than confusing.

 

That's an excellent way to describe his actions.

 

You're right, Amber. We haven't heard enough about John Ramsey's reactions after the body was found, other than his strange behaviour about arrangng a flight to Atlanta. Was this also a part of his acting role, I wonder (?). The cops will think he's not quite with it, that he's lost his mind (?).

 

Here's a past thread about the bowl and sizes of the bowl, the spoon and the tea glass:
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7457

 

But if there was cream in the bowl, why then was nothing of it found in JB's digestive tract?
The picture is extremely grainy. One can't even recognize that it is pineapple which is in there, let alone if there is also cream.

 

The autopsy report was not that specific. If the contents of the intestine had been chemically analyzed dairy products would have been included if found. But the autopsy wasn't that specific. Gil Grissom and Catherine and the gang would have done better no doubt. Le reported pineapple in the bowl. Milk was identified by John in Le interview.

Pineapple, bowl, spoon, milk/cream, glass, teabag, all there.

 

Did my own bowl of pineapple and cream

I had cream left over from Christmas, so I bought some canned pineapple today and did a test. This is a bowl from my kitchen, nothing unusual. I don't have a bowl that is quite as deep as the one from Patsy's kitchen, but the dimensions across are similar, I think. I put the pineapple in, and poured heavy whipping cream onto it. The spoon is a soup spoon from my usual set. They have a large bowl, but it's still nothing a kid couldn't deal with.

And what does pineapple-and-cream taste like, you ask? Well, the cream cuts the sweetness and acidity of the pineapple, which to me, takes all the taste out of it. What Muriel Spark found so wonderful about eating pineapple this way, I cannot imagine. But if she happens to be English (I dont know), they pour cream on just about any sweet, so perhaps it's that.

Anyway, thought you guys might like to see this. A glass and an unused tea bag are behind the bowl. I think the teabag in the Ramsey shot has been used.

 

The facts that we find pineapple and cream "foreign" (pun intended) and they were found in the home speaks volumes.

"We" do not eat pineapple and cream. Who does? The "English" do, that includes the Scots. Where would Patsy learn about pineapple and cream? Muriel Spark's works, that's where.

Who ate them in Spark's works? Two of the Brodie set. This to me says "the Brodie set" were active in Patsy at the time of the crime.

Great picture heymom. Could you also post it on the "Prime" thread?

 

Sure Paradox.

When I read back through this thread and see the quote from "The Prime..." about the girls eating pineapples and cream, I am more convinced than ever that Patsy adopted parts of this novel into her psyche...which means she never developed a personality of her own...borderline personality for sure. Anyone who takes on aspects of novels to that extent is mentally not sound.

I'm not sure I'll go the whole way with you into the Small Foreign Faction category, but I think you are closer to understanding the being that called herself Patsy than many others who "knew" her.

 

You are so right about the cream, Paradox and heymom. We're both from Scotland, and my husband can take cream on anything, even ice cream. I kid you not. Not me, but having an Irish background that goes all the way back to Donegal, I'm not a true Scot.

 

The first time I saw hubby pour full cream on a bowl of cake AND ice cream, I thought he was insane. He puts cream on pie, too. He doesn't pour cream on chocolate bars, however.

He is skinny, though, and deprives himself in other ways so he can continue to indulge his sweet tooth.