Why John lied about breaking the window

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Learnin, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    I agree! There were a few things the RST just JUMPED on- one was the suitcase, which Lou Smit almost GLEEFULLY identified as what the "intruder" HAD to have used to climb out the window (ignoring the chair in plain sight in the train room). But after all- this "intruder" was SO clever, according to JR, that he figured out a way to climb out the window in the train room, balancing on a suitcase, ignoring the chair, yet magically finding a way to pull the chair against the OTHER side of the door as he left. I guess he was clever enough to reach through that closed door.
    The RST (and Smit) also jumped all over the broken window, ignoring that JR admitted he was the one who broke it. I wonder if they tested for "touch" DNA on the window latch, chair or doorknob on the inside of the train room (or outside of the wineceller, for that reason).
     
  2. Britt

    Britt FFJ Senior Member

    Thanks, Elle :)

    Elle and DeeDee - Re the scraping metal - it seems to me that in order for the neighbor to have heard it, it would've either had to have been outside - like the grate, as you say, Elle - or something located near the broken window. Could the sound have traveled from the wine cellar through the rest of the basement and out the broken window? How else would the sound have traveled to the neighbor's?

    Back to the broken window - what I find significant is that John told his absurd break-in story very early on - to Fleet White before JBR's body was even produced. He went out of his way to "explain away" the broken window almost immediately.

    Why would he do that if it weren't connected to the crime - why bother to offer any explanation? If White asked about it, why not just say, "oh yeah, that's been broken for a while." If he wanted White and the police to think the window was an intruder's entry, why on earth would he say he broke it himself when he could just say nothing and let the window speak for itself?

    The only thing that makes sense is that he wanted White to believe that the broken window was NOT related to JBR's dead body they were about to "find." WHY?
     
  3. Elle

    Elle Member

    I don't think the neighbours would hear anything moved inside the basement, DeeDee. I'm thinking the noise of the iron window guard outside the house being removed, or replaced back in it's concrete frame would make a noise which could carry to the neighbour's house (?).
     
  4. Karen

    Karen Member

    I wonder if that scraping sound is even related to this crime at all? Was it definitely pinpointed to the Ramsey house? Could it just be a coincidence?
     
  5. Elle

    Elle Member

    Karen


    I think it was the neighbour Stanton who heard the scream, however, we have different times of her death starting off with 11:00 pm. It's hard to know what to believe with this case (?).
     
  6. Karen

    Karen Member

    I remember that Elle.:) I'm just wondering if Stanton ever said he heard that sound coming from the direction of the Ramsey house or if he could pinpoint it in any way. For all we know it could have been something completely unrelated. It wasn't the outside grate, we all know that. I think then if it was something coming from the Ramsey house it would have had to be something down inside the basement.
     
  7. Elle

    Elle Member

    I think it was Mrs. Stanton who heard a scream. I would need to research it. Hard to judge when one doesn 't live in the actual neigbourhood, Karen. What's the weather like in Colorado at Christmas time? Wasn't there a spattering of snow? Wouldn't people keep their windows closed?
     
  8. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    Mrs. Stanton heard the scream. The scream woke her up, but didn't wake her husband. SHE then woke her husband and he then claimed to hear the "metal scraping concrete" sound.
    The Stantons always slept with their bedroom window open, according to Mrs. Stanton. When the BPD did their "sound check" from INSIDE the R basement, they noted that there was a vent that opened to the outside in the area just outside the wineceller. They stood some officers outside at the Stanton's house and also in the master bedroom on the 3rd floor. A scream COULD be heard BOTH places, which means that if Mrs. Stanton heard that scream, anyone in the master bedroom heard it too.
    Though the weather in Colorado is cold in December, MANY people sleep with their bedroom window open a bit, for fresh air and because sometimes the heat on makes the room stuffy. When I stay at my daughter's in New York State, even in the coldest weather the guest room is hot and stuffy, so we keep a window open all night.
     
  9. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    The way I see it, Britt, is that the stagers couldn't afford to change things around too much because there might have been some people who could come forth and dispute the crime scene like the Pughs. In that regard I don't think they would move shelves around, etc., but it's possible I suppose.
     
  10. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Okay. Here's the thing about this broken basement window. If the lab was able to ascertain from which side the window was broken, then, I have to believe they found that it was broken from the outside. Why? Because, if they found that it was broken from the inside, then, they would have confronted John about his story. Of course, John could have said: "Well, I guess we got it fixed after I broke in." But, if he answered thusly, then, LE could have come back and said: "Well, then, who broke the window from the inside?"

    My gut feeling is that you can't determine, definitively, which side the glass was broken without observing the fall of the broken glass, but, maybe I'm wrong.

    I still believe John was making up a story about coming through that window and it was to lead Fleet and police into the scenario the stager wishes to present without being obvious....you throw some tidbits out there and let the conned come to conclusions without you suggesting it. When John pointed to his head like: "Oh drat, I should've fixed that thing.", well, that was another little tidbit for Fleet to digest...and draw conclusions on. Then when he had Fleet occupied looking for glass, he darted to the wine cellar so he could discover the body without Fleet being right at his footsteps.

    You see, John hoped the police would mention the broken basement window and discover the body but things didn't work out that way so he had to but couldn't be obvious about it.

    If you think about the whole scene, this was being played out all the time, no? I happen to believe one of the reasons the ransom note was written was for the police to discover the body and not the family. It's more suspicious if the family calls and reports a dead body in their house.
     
  11. Karen

    Karen Member

    Also saying he had found the window open about an inch and closed it. He didn't tell anybody. He didn't tell anybody because he didn't actually do it. That is part of using the window to provide an entry point for an intruder. Finding it open an inch would show someone came through there. He didn't say that until his police interview. He had time to come up with that. It's part of the "using the broken window to show how the intruder got in" theory he and Smit were pushing. He embellished by saying the window was open but Fleet who was down there before him, said it wasn't. Blew that right out of the water. No wonder he grew to hate Fleet so much!
     
  12. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    There was a LOT that LE never confronted JR or Patsy about. So I believe that even if the window glass was tested to see whether it was broken from inside our outside, that doesn't mean LE would have confronted JR about it. Personally, I don't believe they tested the window glass.
     
  13. Elle

    Elle Member

    Thank you, DeeDee for replying and filling us in. You are a gem!
    So there was a vent in the Ramsey basement. The noise would carry out, for sure!
    Yes, it can be too hot with Central heating.
     
  14. Elle

    Elle Member

    I agree with you, Karen!
     
  15. Elle

    Elle Member


    I could believe this theory, Learnin, about the Ramseys planning on the police finding the body, and when this failed, John Ramsey had no choice but to pretend he found it himself. I did think about it before, and my husband thinks the same. He has never been involved with this case on the net. Just heard me talking about it, but as I mentioned before, he is reading Kolar's book to discuss it with me now. It is a believable theory, more than anything else!

    The wooden lock at the top of the wine cellar door stopped the police from opening it, by naturally thinking, no one was in there! Big mistake on the Ramsey's part!
     
  16. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Right on!
     
  17. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Personally, I don't believe they tested the window glass.

    Most likely not.
     
  18. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    It's great that your husband is reading Kolar's book, Elle, so you can have some good discussion...who knows....you two might come up with some really
    fascinating things to consider.
     
  19. Elle

    Elle Member

    I think you're doing a good job of this yourself, Learnin. I do value Jim's opinion on many subjects. :) If he does come up with something different, I'll post it, but I feel a lot has already been said except for the theory of the Ramseys planning on the cops finding JonBenét first.
     
  20. Britt

    Britt FFJ Senior Member

    I definitely agree that the Ramseys wanted the police to be the ones to find the body.

    But if John wanted to plant the suggestion that the broken window was an intruder's entry point, why didn't he tell his break-in story to the police that morning? Why not mention the broken window to Arndt when he brought JBR's body up from the basement? Instead, he said it was an "inside job." He had the perfect opportunity right then to suggest how an intruder could have gotten in, yet he instead pointed to an "inside job" and a perp who "didn't mean to kill her."

    I see what you're saying, but on the other hand, John also told the story about the chair blocking the train room door. This story he also came up with long after the murder. But the chair/door scenario made it impossible (as Smit pointed out to JR) for an intruder to have used that window, thereby contradicting the broken-window-used-by-intruder scenario.
     
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