JB's blood on the pillowcase...

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by koldkase, Nov 22, 2008.

  1. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    That makes sense. Obviously, the sound was bad during the interview, and Patsy probably made sure that worked to her advantage. The transcriber wrote a lot of "inaudibles".
     
  2. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Okay, I'm reading this '98 LE interview again, with Patsy and Haney, obviously, and I keep finding stuff I want to bring up, so I may as well keep it on this thread.

    Here is something unusual I don't believe I've seen discussed before. I have been looking for any of the screen shot photos we have of the crime scene photos Patsy was shown and asked about, but I can't really find one that shows the item Patsy is asked about--a large pageant trophy that's lying in the floor, apparently. They are still looking at photos of JB's room:

    http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm


    Then they move to bathroom photos, and the red turtleneck comes up and Patsy tears up and they take a break:


     
  3. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    You know, it occurs to me that there are so many photos from the crime scene that are shown repeatedly...and so many that are never shown.

    Where are the photos of the crowns on the floor? Where are the photos of the pageant trophy lying on the floor? Who "shows" the photos? RST. And they leave out all but the ones that they think support their "intruder" theory, don't they?

    I guess I'm going to have to start playing the lottery so I can try to raise the money to fight the corrupt DA Office in Boulder and get access to the same photos and tapes they let Smit have copies of, to show the world in his Team Ramsey Intruder Tour. It's simply unconstitutional to leak evidence to a selected media group TO SPREAD PROPAGANDA, but not let the public have access as well to think for ourselves!

    Bunch of NAZIS!
     
  4. WVSleuth

    WVSleuth Member

    re: the photos

    yes, that's why i questioned the photos.. the photos smit had in his presentation, which of these do 'we' have? i'd like to see all the photos in some kind of order, those just being numbered, and then those posted with 'crime scene photo' in another set.. i've seen some posted at acr but think that more in depth study of all the photos could yield something more, at least discussion..
     
  5. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    Yes, the transcribers do make mistakes. We know JBR wore a black velvet VEST, black velvet pants and the white Gap top to the White's. Interesting, that the coroner described the abrasions on her cheek as having a "boat-like structure" inside- and it has been thought it could be from a snap like the "silver snap" PR mentioned.
     
  6. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    As far as JBR's teeth, the coroner mentions in the report that her teeth are "native and in good repair". The "native" means they are her own. And he doesn't mention that any are missing. I think he would have had to state it if there were missing teeth.
    Mayer does mention the "tan mucus" and also the stains on her sleeve. I can't imagine he didn't test the fluid or swab her cheek and nose to see what the "tan mucus" was composed of but - hey- this is the same coroner who didn't use sterile separate clippers for her fingernails. He used not only the same clipper for each nail, but there was thought that he may have even used the same clipper on other bodies. So it is possible that he might not have even swabbed and tested the mucus.
     
  7. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member


    That's a difficult question, WV. We once had a lot more photos, but lots of the sites that kept them have closed up shop or taken lots of them down.

    This is again why I wish we could have access to the same photos Smit controls, though his copies were organized and made at the expense of the citizens of Co while he worked for the DA.
     
  8. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    As long as the case remains open and unsolved (i.e. no killer found) they don't have to release all the information, and that includes the crime scene photos. I am sure there is a LOT in those evidence photos (like who was there Christmas morning) that they don't want anyone to see. The evidence photos include photos processed from the R family cameras, not just the crime scene photos taken that day and the autopsy photos.
    There was a case years ago where the autopsy photos of a well-known race car driver who died in a horrific crash were put on the internet under the Freedom of Information Act. The family tried to stop it; I don't know if they did. But JBR's case is different. Not because it is a crime, but because it is an UNSOLVED crime. A judge allowing the release of the autopsy is different. But it can always be argued that the crime scene and autopsy photos contain information that needs to be kept secret because the killer is still unknown.

    The 6-8 autopsy photos we have are the ones that were published by the Globe. They bought many more, but published only those. I believe they were forced to turn over the rest to LE, and I know the photo lab workers who sold them were arrested.
     
  9. WVSleuth

    WVSleuth Member

    Yes, they even took video from the books I've read. I'm sure that looking at some of those pictures would create a lot more conversation. I'm sure Jams has a copy of the powerpoint presentation, but she'd never post it all if only for the reason that doing so wouldn't help her agenda. If Smit weren't towing the same line, she'd have posted that on hir site for all to see.
     
  10. Karen

    Karen Member

    You know I have always maintained that we don't have all the evidence and that is one reason why so much of this doesn't make sense and people have so many different theories. LE has so much we are not privvy to that I bet they laugh when they read these boards because they have the answers we don't have. I'm sure they also gain insight and ideas they hadn't thought of before reading here and at Websleuths. Steve Thomas said there is an abundance of evidence out in the public domain but even we know that he didn't give up everything he knows, and since he quit the force there is even more evidence, I'm sure. IMO this case is a puzzle that will never have all the pieces put together by we amatuer sleuthers because we don't have all the facts. A lot of us have great gut instincts though and it comes through in a lot of posts I read. We didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday and a spade is a spade and the evidence we DO have paints an ugly picture but if one would simply follow the evidence that has been released which IS substantial there can only be one conclusion. Common sense is very valuable in a case like this.
     
  11. Elle

    Elle Member

    Catching up here KK. Have you ever been busy. I'll read all your posts tomorrow and will check up on LHP and the sheets.
     
  12. Elle

    Elle Member

    Still searching, KK. It was usually Patsy Ramsey who changed the sheets according to LHP



     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2009
  13. Elle

    Elle Member

    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/nebula/9337/timemag.html

    Lawrence Shiller tells us:

    On Sunday, Sept. 13, Michael Kane, Bruce Levin of Hunter's grand-jury team and Det. Jane Harmer went to see Linda Hoffmann-Pugh. They had brought several thick books of crime-scene photos, the same ones shown to Patsy earlier in June. For three hours, Hoffmann-Pugh reviewed the photos taken inside the Ramseys' house. They showed her a picture of JonBenét's white thermal blanket—the one in which she had been found dead. It had many brown-colored stains on it. Some of them looked like dried blood. Then they showed her a picture of JonBenét's bed, which looked strange to her. It had other sheets than those she had used to make the bed just two days before the murder. Looking at the comforter, you couldn't tell that the blanket beneath it had been pulled off. The bed in the photo looked barely disturbed. Hoffmann-Pugh knew that to pull the blanket off, you had to first remove the comforter, otherwise the comforter would get messed up. Maybe the sheets and white blanket she used hadn't been on the bed at all the night of the murder. She told the police that they might have been in the washer-dryer in the cabinet outside JonBenét's room."

    Couldn't change the bolding here(?).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2009
  14. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Oh, thank you so much, Elle, for posting that.

    So...LHP says she changed the sheets on JB's bed on the day of the Christmas party with Santa/McReynolds, the 23rd, a Monday.

    And LHP says the sheets she put on were different than the ones found on the bed. So assuming JB slept on the sheets that Monday night, they had to have been changed in the next two days.

    LHP also said the blanket was on the bed. That blanket was found on the body a few days later. So the sheets were changed and the blanket was taken off the bed.

    Unless the RST wants to argue the INTRUDER changed the sheets as well...PATSY HAD TO HAVE BEEN THE ONE TO CHANGE THEM!

    Now think about this: YET ANOTHER CRITICAL PIECE OF THE EVIDENCE, in finding the murderer of her child, AND PATSY CAN'T REMEMBER SOMETHING SO ELEMENTAL!

    WHY WAS THIS WOMAN NOT ARRESTED?!!

    It...just...makes...me...CRAZY!! :steamed:
     
  15. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Look more closely at this part:
    This does not seem like a blanket that had been washed and was taken fresh out of the dryer.

    Considering the questions about the blood on the pillowcase and the "brown stains" on the blanket, it seems like it was on the bed and taken off and then put around the child in the cellar room at some point.

    There was blood found on the thigh...and the body had been wiped down.

    Lots of possibilities here.

    I am starting to think JonBenet was first attacked in her bed. Sexually? Head blow? Garrote? The RST has made a big deal out of those few cord fibers found in the bed. Now can they explain WHY THE INTRUDER CHANGED THE BEDCLOTHES AND REMOVED THE BLANKET?

    Something else is bothering me: was Burke strong enough to break that paintbrush? Think about it.
     
  16. Elle

    Elle Member

    I don't think an intruder would have taken the time to change the bed KK, or be considerate as to whether JonBenét ended up on a dirty cellar floor. It has parental concern written all over this part of wrapping her in a blanket.

    I thought the blood stains on the blanket came from the body when it was being wrapped up in the final stages, with the blood coming from the vaginal injury with the brush shaft, (?). Yes, Burke could have broken the brush shaft. There are a few ways it could have been broken without just using two hands.

    All one has to do is place it in an open drawer, place the brush in the opening and close it to where you want to break it. Hold the drawer handle tightly and then break the brush shaft with the right hand. It would break easily. Almost like a vice. We never saw how the edge of the broken shaft looked(?) I wish we could have seen a re-enactment of this scene alone KK. Going over a few scenarios to see which one fitted the best.

    I noticed Levin was missing from Bruce Levin's name in my post. I edited it. Good luck with all you are doing to keep the case going right now KK.
     
  17. Elle

    Elle Member

    No doubt about it, KK. Patsy Ramsey had changed the sheets since LHP had changed them. Linda may have changed them seeing it was close to Christmas, although Patsy was the one who normally had them in the washer when Linda arrived in the morning.

    Drives all of us crazy this part.
     
  18. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    This is the first time I've seen where the white blanket had stains on it. I had recently made a comment about where she had been lying when she was wiped down. It was clear from the photos (and PR admitted as much when shown photos by LE) that JBR's bed, though unmade, was not disturbed to the point that the blanket could have been pulled off the bed without it being obvious. It is clear that her bed was made up without the blanket by PR because housekeeper LHP had not come since the 23rd, and JBR wet the bed every night.

    I had read comments by LHP about the sheets long ago, where she says that the last time she changed the sheets was the day of the Ramsey party on the 23rd. She never came back to the R home after that. She said the sheets were not the ones she recalls putting on the bed, I read her comments on the sheets being already in the wash when she arrived in the mornings. But I never saw where she said that PR made the bed. The way I read her comments, PR stripped the bed, and LHP remade the bed with clean sheets. LHP also said that although JBR's sheets were always washed in the washer/dryer just outside her room, the white blanket was always washed in the basement washer dryer because it was larger capacity.
     
  19. Elle

    Elle Member

    Patsy Ramsey lied her way throughout this whole case, DeeDee. Unbelievable what both of the Ramseys pulled off when you go over all these true facts. She knew how to cause confusion and reasonable doubt. It worked.

    How I wish some movie producer would produce a re-enactment of the JonBenét Ramsey case elaborating on all the lies spewed by the Ramseys.

    I know there's some controversy as to which dryer the blanket was in (?). upstairs or downstairs (?).
     
  20. WVSleuth

    WVSleuth Member

    Again, IF you've got nothing to hide, WHY LIE? IF you didn't have anything to do with this, WHY NOT go to the police to see if you could in any way HELP to find this bastard who did this horrible thing to your daughter? Why, once she was found dead, was there NO CONCERN about that? It was like, 'Oh, well' and then they are ONLY concerned about THEMSELVES. And all these idiotic IDI with, 'You don't know how you would react'. Bull! What did they EVER do that made sense? How did they ever act that you or someone you know would react? You couldn't have gotten me out of that police station. Good grief!
     
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