Why John lied about breaking the window

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Learnin, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    And I keep thinking about that one interview where Patsy was asked about the basement laundry room. She was asked if it would be out of place for a pic of JBR to be located down there. She was asked if she (Patsy) would go fetch a camera if JBR was being "cute"?

    This tells me they found a picture of JBR which was taken in that basement laundry room; she was posing; and the picture was left in the basement laundry room. It had to be taken with an automatic camera, one which developed instantly. Why? Because, if it were a developed picture, then, an adult (Patsy or John) would have taken the picture. Patsy, clearly, didn't know anything about a pic of JBR taken down in the basement and said she would not have done it.

    This is extremely interesting with the discussion we're having about a therapist, the basement, possible sexual experimentation; the basement window and where the body was found.

    Obviously, this JBR pic was of interest to investigators so it had to be unusual; out of the ordinary; suspicious enough that investigators suggested this was a possible play room for kids....
     
  2. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Would it ibe possible in any form to ask J. Kolar (through Tricia maybe) whether he knows if testing could establish from which side the window had been broken?
     
  3. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    The house is listed as having 7,240-square-feet:

    http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_17443014

    Like you said, the front view does not show the additions that have been made in the back, and one may get the impression of a much smaller house.

    On page 7 (middle picture) of this photo gallery of the house and rooms (redecorated by Carol Schuller Milner), one can see what looks like an addition:

    http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2011/02/jonbenet_ramsey_house_for_sale_photos.php?page=7

    Did the Ramseys have these parts added to the original building?
     
  4. wombat

    wombat Member

    You can definitely determine the direction of impact in a glass failure, I would say almost always, if you have the pieces. When something hits a glass panel, ridges form concave to the direction of the impact. They’re called Wallner lines:

    http://www.flachglas-service.de/en/cases_of_damage/wallner_lines.html

    You can also usually tell if it was low, medium, or high impact. The basement window was plain old ordinary glass, non-tempered, brittle, and probably didn't need to be hit that hard.

    I would say that the BPD could have figured out whether the glass window was broken from inside or outside, based on what was left of the window on December 26. That was a common law enforcement skill even in 1996.

    Here's a summary of a 2004 FBI guideline on glass fractures:

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/forensic-science-communications/fsc/jan2005/standards/2005standards7.htm
     
  5. Elle

    Elle Member

    Oh good grief, rashomon! This looks quite a big house to me, folks! (?). Just seeing the front doesn't give one the full dimensions! Mama Mia!
     
  6. heymom

    heymom Member

    Also, that window had a wooden trim across the glass, which would have been fairly easy to break had something as large as a man's foot been put through it from the outside. If the impact of whatever broke the glass was fairly focused on that one part of the window, the wooden trim on the inside might not have been touched, but a larger impact surface would have definitely broken the trim. So, what I am saying is that whatever broke that window was not a large object. Could have been a golf ball, maybe a golf club, unlikely to have been a man's foot with a shoe on.
     
  7. otg

    otg Member

    Fractography and Interviews

    One of the things I occasionally get involved with in my work (the work that pays the bills, that is) is failure analysis of metals. I would imagine that glass failure analysis is very similar. The Wallner lines are what we refer to as "beach marks" (looking at them makes it obvious why they are called that). I found a fairly short technical paper published by Corning that may be interesting to those who want to know more about it:
    https://globalcommhost.com/corning/displayinsider/assets/gs/TIP_201.pdf


    On another point (since the interviews were brought up)... Maybe this is not new to others, but I ran across a thread a couple of days ago while looking for something else. There was a poster on WS named Blue Crab who seems to have mysteriously disappeared years ago, and who seemed to have some connection with Nat'l Examiner. Apparently he/she had access to some of the transcripts of the 1998 interviews that have not been released to the general public.

    I don't know who Blue Crab was (I was in semi-retirement at the time he/she appeared), or anything about him/her, so I can't vouch for the validity of what was posted. But I found this thread just too interesting to not bring up. In post #11, this is what is especially interesting (bbm):

    I would love to see the tape of this interview. What was she thinking? Was she considering accepting "an accident" for an excuse? How long would the pause while she was thinking have to be that the transcriber felt it needed to be written in? Obviously, even in 1998, BPD had considered BR as a suspect, and I think they almost broke PR at that moment.
     
  8. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Thanks for bringing this up, OTG! I believe it is very relevant to understanding what happened and is probably as close to the truth as Patsy ever got when being questioned.

    I had posted that same exchange, with a bit more of the interview (it must have been released somewhere, because we have a copy here at FFJ), on the "So Many Abrasions" thread back in July because I thought it was so important.

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=191122&postcount=38

    I think it is revealing because of not only because of what Patsy says, but it also shows her coming out of her "acting job" of innocent, even-tempered mother with a burst of emotion!

    PATSY RAMSEY: "Burke Ramsey did not do this, okay. He did not do this. Get off it."

    Instead of Patsy's usual hemming and hawing and wandering around the topic, she gets very direct in her answers. There is "yes" and "no" and "get off it" except for when Haney asks, "could it have been an accident?" Instead of saying the expected, "no," Patsy says:

    PATSY RAMSEY: "I -- don't know."
     
  9. otg

    otg Member

    Hey, Cherokee. I re-read your July post since you brought it up. I guess it didn't really sink into my thick skull at the time just how telling this exchange was. Or, maybe after seeing that picture just below your post when I read it, I got consumed with finding a good picture of the Addams Family.

    One of our best posters over at WS contacted me after I posted this and told me the interview was in the NE book, JonBenet: The Police Files. (Looks like I'll be ordering another book soon.)
     
  10. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I didn't realize you don't know we have a case library here, otg. The transcript in full which you seek is on this forum, whereas the National Enquirer book, while useful at the time because we'd never seen those transcripts before Team Ramsey sold them through Jameson and the tabloid published them, was incomplete, edited for length, no doubt.

    Here is the passage you are referencing:

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9945

     
  11. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Thanks so much, wombat. It seemed logical to me that LE would know if the glass was broken from the inside or outside.

    But as we know, so many things easily determined in this case have never been addressed or have been hidden or even destroyed, I fear.

    I'll check that link out. Thanks again. :toast:
     
  12. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I don't know. I did ask Tricia if maybe he'd take questions from her forums, so we could all submit those we'd like to ask. She said she'd ask, but he was busy at the time, so maybe we can do that one day.

    I have a looooooooooong list, I might add. lol If we get the chance, Tricia probably will say one question per person or some such--I almost choked when she told us 2 questions each on her podcast show...WHAT?! :eek: I know we were nearly ready to climb over each other to get to Kolar...I have a stun gun I'll be using on cynic next time....
     

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  13. heymom

    heymom Member


    :floor:

    :fishslap: Or the fishslap....
     
  14. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Or I may have to go ninja on him....
     

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  15. Elle

    Elle Member


    KK.

    I wouldn't have patience for all that hanging around one has to go through, One has to admire Tricia for controlling it all! Not easy! I do admire all of the FFJ people who have spoken on the radio. You have all done a great job!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2012
  16. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Thank you so much, Elle. Ever our faithful cheerleader. I do appreciate it more than words can say, especially since it's the only satisfaction we're ever going to get out all the time we've all put into this case.
     
  17. cynic

    cynic Member

    Koldkase,

    Stun guns and ninjas?
    You leave me no choice but to insult you and say that you sound like Michael Tracey. :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2012
  18. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Oooh, them's fightin' words, Cynic!!! :mame:

    KK, you gonna sit there and take that?!! Maybe you need to squish his face in or something!

    :rs:
     
  19. Elle

    Elle Member

    KK,

    What is so nice about listening to the radio show is hearing the voices of people I have posted with for quite a few years. You have to have special courage to talk on the radio for starters, plus also hearing Tricia speaking, the wonderful woman who owns Forums For Justice, and tries to find the criminals who commit these horrible murders. To be associated with all of you is quite an honor for me! Being British I spelled honor the British way and a red line appeared, so I shall use the American spelling coz you're all Americans! :rose:

    P.S. I am sure you will find all the other posters who do not go on the radio feel exactly the same way I do! As your voices are going out there all over "wherever" (?). With a smile, I say out loud I know these people!
     
  20. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Excuse me...did you just compare me to TRACEY?

    Insult? Oh, this goes much, MUCH further than INSULTS....

    "Accursed, unhappy, wretched, hateful day! This is the most miserable hour of all time!"
     

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