The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie - The Book

Pamela Franklin was excellent in her part in this 1969 movie of "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie." I don't think you would be disappointed with this version. I haven't seen the 1978 version of it, but she certainly doesn't match the Sandy in the book. She actually does have very big eyes.

I suspected you might be a school teacher, rashomon, by the way you were handling the discussion with Paradox.

I think I may have had a good laugh at a teacher like Miss Brodie, had she been in my school. She was the very opposite of the teachers I had in Scotland I can well understand your contempt. However, as you said, she was just fictional. It was really quite a daring movie for the 1930's when one thinks of how really staid everything really was during that period of time.

Pamela Franklin according to the movie information on the net was just 19 years old when she played the 12 year old Sandy Stranger.

No, I never had any manipulative teachers like Miss Brodie at my school when I was young many moons ago.

 

Thank you Elle, Rashomon and Paradox for the discussion. Regarding Teddy Lloyd's 'ugly' comment to Sandy: In the play there is additional character detail in which Teddy finds Sandy bewitching, perhaps this an ugly trait to Teddy, rather than a physical one.

 

I'm off to the video store tomorrow to see if they have both the 1969 an 1978 DVD's, Cranberry.

I thought you would have jumped right into the discussion between rashomon and Paradox.

You saw the stage play too? Did you like it?

That Teddy Lloyd needs a smack, doesn't he?

 

From the quote given, I took it to mean he was trying to hurt her, not give her an honest assessment of her physical appearance. And ugly can mean inside as well as outside. He'd just tried to kiss her, hadn't he? So why did he do that if he thought she was ugly?

Oh, never mind, he's a man...

 

Hahahahahaha! heymom. There's the answer right there.

 

Yes, thanks Hey mom, perhaps hurt her for the way she got to him with those liittle pig eyes (in the book). Elle, I've haven't seen the play, I've read the transcript.

 

I see, and Paradox has read the whole book. Boy does he ever know that book backwards.

 

And inside up too!

 

I'm currently teaching kindergarten but have taught older pupils too. I hope I didn't sound too "schoolmarmish" with Paradox though.

Miss Brodie 'in real life', would not have been able to stay at the school that long without being fired.

 

Now this is a very earthly, worldly concept of salvation with no element of transcendence in it.
Rather than calling it 'salvation', I'd call it 'emotional healing', in the sense of becoming 'whole' as a person.

Whereas in a prior post, you wrote Patsy 'sacrificed' JonBenet to send her ahead and JB was in heaven awaiting Patsy. This clearly contains elements of transcendence:

But imo nothing indicates that Patsy (before the tragic event on that fatal night) was such a guilt-ridden person that she was more afraid of judgement than any other human being who believes in the concept of judgement after death.

 

The concept of an immortal soul existing separately from the body does not exist in the Bible. Therefore when e. g. Abel sacrificed a lamb to God, the smoke going up does not mean that the lamb's soul separated itself
from the body and went up to God via smoke. For neither in the Old Testament nor in the NT do animals have an 'immortal soul' attributed to them.

Gods were often imagined to be 'high up' in heaven, and therefore the smoke from the sacrifice was used to 'reach up' to them.

But there also existed 'goddesses of the Earth' in other cultures, and the sacrifices offered to these deities were not burned, but the blood was poured into the earth, the goddess being considered to reside 'down in the earth'. The blood was served to them to satisfy their 'hunger'.

But this would contradict your prior scenario of Patsy sacrificing JB to the highter authority God in Heaven, sending her ahead as an angel.

 

No, not all rashomon, you just come off as one very intelligent woman having an intelligent discussion with an intelligent guy who knows this book inside out, and I enjoy reading discussions that are exciting.

For sure, she would have been kicked out of the school I attended.
I would say Miss Brodie would fit in just fine with today's standards; couples living together before marriage, and teenagers having sex much more freely than in my teenage years.


However, I really did enjoy the movie and Maggie Smith was just wonderful in the part. Pamela Franklin was also excellent as Sandy Stranger. In fact all the schoolgirls chosen for these parts were terrific.

 

You know, I honestly can't get into this discussion because to me JonBenét Ramsey was killed accidentally by Patsy. I can't see it any other way. Hypothetically, Patsy chose a very bad time if she was into this sacrificial deal. I would have thought if anyone was going to do something like this, that a better place and time would have been chosen than after Christmas, with preparations to head to Charlevoix early the next morning.

So, I'm glad that it's you rashomon who is having this discussion with Paradox. and not me. Hang in there, you're doing a good job.

PS. Finally got around to sending away for the DVD of "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie" and I'm looking forward to seeing it again; especially after all the discussions.

 

Elle, it might help to think about it this way: (Because I don't think even Paradox is suggesting that Patsy killed JonBenet as a conscious sacrifice...but I could be wrong)

For someone who has somewhat of a borderline personality disorder, meaning that if Patsy had a personality of her own, it was marginal, and what she really functioned from was the needs and desires of the people around her, especially Nedra, books and other media can become very important. Patsy may have been unconsciously or subconsciously influenced by TPOMJB, to the point where she added some elements of those characters into her life, not knowing or understanding that she was doing this. With a BPD, the individuals will sort of patchwork a personality together - a little of this, a little of that, some of that over there. Books, idols, songs, all can take on a significant aspect to people who never really formed their own selves in the sense that you and I have.

So if Patsy had an overlap with The Prime, it would have been because she adopted this book/play as a sort of motif, and it could have been any of dozens of other influences. BPD people are like chameleons - they can become anything to anyone, anywhere, any time. There really isn't anyone there, in the end. Not a true personality as we expect from others.

I don't know if that helps at all. I have known BPDs as well as NPDs. You know, I guess I must attract mentally ill people...hmmmmm....what does that say about me???? lol

:hood:

 

I understand what you're saying here, hm and this could have been the situation with Patsy. I have often wondered if Patsy could have been Bipolar, and I am more than aware of what it's all about with having a relation who suffers from it. It is a very puzzling disease. I have discussed this with other posters a few years back. It can't be cancelled out.

 

Thanks again to all who took part in this discussion. I just had to see "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie" again. I finally sent away for it, and I watched it last week and enjoyed it all over again. As I was watching it, I remembered some of the discussions. Teddy Lloyd definitely didn't say Pamela was ugly in this movie. Pamela Franklin's does wear dark horn rimmed glasses, but to me she was still quite pretty. What a terrific young actress she was in this movie.

Maggie Smith was also excellent as I've said before. She won her first academy award for this movie. The art teacher (rascal) Teddy Lloyd was played by Maggie Smith's real life husband, Robert Stephens, in the movie.
He was also excellent in his part.

 

I agree with everything you say Elle. I have always loved this movie and it's been awhile since I've seen it. I need to rent it or something.

 

Pleased to hear you liked it, Thor. Did you understand the Scottish accents okay? For me, listening to the accents was like a trip back home. We still have relations in Edinburgh.

I hope you find it at the rental video store. I couldn't see it in ours, so opted for buying it. I know I'll watch it again in a few months.

 

Hi Elle, I'm going through my book notes and add additional info to the chapters when I can, ch 2 on thread page 1 today. I have the DVD and plan to watch it soon.

 

Yes, I understood the accents fine Elle. I thought that little red-headed girl was cute, too. Can't remember what role she played right off hand.