Exposing Ramsey Spin Team games and dishonesty

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Jayelles, Jul 30, 2008.

  1. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Well... I'll keep an open mind and if Solange isn't Athena, perhaps she'll do the decent thing and reveal herself so that Athena's name can be cleared. Somehow I don't think that will happen because regardless of whether Solange is or isn't Athena, we are dealing with a nasty little coward who hides behind a group of people caring not whether they suffer the fallout of her actions.

    FTR, I'm not in any way wounded by Solange's attacks - despite the fact that this is a person who wants to cause trouble for me. I'm pretty immune to that sort of thing and they were mild in comparison with Shill's bile. If Athena or whomever Solange may be had simply spoken her mind under her own hat, this would have been a non-issue. What I object to (and I mean this sincerely) is the act of accusing me of cowardice when she herself was using an anonymous hat and server. Add to that the fact that this person who called ME slime/vile/coward was behaving like a troll whilst effectively placing her own group of friends under suspicion. THAT is what I find objectionable. I recall some years ago that there was a private forum. Note that it was private and not "secret" because at the time of its inception, an open invitation was extended for people to join. However, over time, this group of forum friends relaxed and things were said within the confines of the forum which wouldn't have been posted on a public forum. Nothing scandalous, just family stuff, chit chat. Then the forum was invaded by a bunch of high school bullies who trashed their way through the threads mocking some of the stuff which had been posted there and threatening to copy and paste it onto a public forum. It destroyed this forum, but it also destroyed something much more precious than that. It destroyed people's trust because the bullies claimed that one of the forum had given her the password. Everyone denied it but at the same time, everyone was wondering about the other members. That is what happens with anonymous misdeeds - it places everyone under suspicion and I think that is just horrible.

    There are people who own up and apologise when they get caught doing bad things and people respect this so much. Then there are people who do bad things but who blame others when they get caught. There are even people who blame the victim for reporting them and "getting them into trouble". I see this type of individual at school and it's usually a bully. "I wouldn't have gotten into trouble if you hadn't grassed me up". They don't see that they wouldn't have gotten into trouble if they hadn't done the wrong deed in the first place!

    I daresay that there will be those who will see me not as the victim of the original anonymous attacks, but as the evil witch who is trying to get their friend into trouble.

    I just want whomever it is who keeps making these anonymous attacks to back off. I don't go looking for trouble, but I will deal with it if it comes looking for me.
     
  2. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Gosh, you just described the RST, led by the Ramseys, Susan Stine, and jams, perfectly. Not to mention child molesters and those who protect them....

    Ah yes, the private forum River started and opened to anyone, announced on Websleuths, which was her forum then, because of jams' silly SPAM "reports" to the WS server when ANYONE at WS posted about jams' stupid exploits...AND I DO MEAN EXPLOITATIONS. Jams caused so much trouble for River that a "smilie" was replaced for jams' hat whenever anyone typed out "jameson"; the "snake" smilie, was used for a time, but they got very creative...and it was MUCH worse for jams than using her stupid hat, hahaha. Very funny stuff.

    So in reponse to jams' harassment, River started a "private" forum--at Delphi, wasn't it?--and invited one and all to post there; all they had to do was pm her and she gave out the password, no qualifications asked. Relatively few people were interested, as I remember, and it got off to a slow start, with many of us just joining to support River's intention, which was to highlight the absurdity of jams' pettiness. After months of just a few posts per day, eventually some alliances and friendships were formed there and it was nice for about a year.

    Then, as you said, Jayelles, a bunch of bullies angry about this or that, or just nasty for the pleasure of being mean, stormed in, former Justice Watch Queens, as I remember it, and set about flaming. They copied all the posts, as if we cared, but the forum was ruined because of the invasion of its spirit, more than anything. We went there to post with forum "friends" over this and that, as it had turned into a "sanctuary" forum, more than anything; my beloved Phoebie got sick and died while I was on that forum, and I was grateful to have a place to mourn her passing with forum friends. So what was the point in continuing if we were being attacked there by people who only wanted to hurt us by mocking us, whose intention was to destroy the forum? We had that at other forums already.

    In fact, River was in the middle of a war at WS at the time, with the former owner who started WS, Murphy, so that seemed to be part of the impetus for trashing the private forum--what was the name, it's on the tip of my fingers...? Of course, there are suspicions as to who sent the Old Queens the password and set them on us, a mean-spirited action all the way round, but that's what trolls enjoy, isn't it? Ah well, it's history, but it is the same old pattern and we've seen it many times.

    So it's no surprise when these trolls show up attacking people at forums. This is why forums like FFJ exist, after all, where membership is strict and moderating maintains "the neighborhood". Topix is not monitored unless someone hits the alert button, so it's a free for all, pretty much, which is fine with me, as it is what it is. So it's inevitable that trolls will show up in TRUE RST BULLYING FASHION, hiding behind a hat to do nothing but attack people: so RAMSEY of them, as they can't win the debate on the evidence, so naturally they just go straight to flaming. It's a wonder these people are CONSISTENTLY too stupid to see it never makes the HOLIER-THAN-THOU Ramseys look good, but there it is: most Ramsey supporters have serious problems with rationale, logic, and honesty. The Ramseys draw them like flies to death.
     
  3. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member


    CK, believe me, we've all been there, done that. Something about the murder and molestation of a child, whose parents have fostered nothing but evil in the investigation by evading, hiding, and obstructing the truth, brings out the sickos like maggots on dead meat. Before I came online to learn about the investigation of this murder some 8 years ago, I had no idea such people existed in such abundance. It's a hard and bitter lesson, we know. Many of us have had our stalkers through the years, and it is scary. So never think we don't appreciate how frightening it is to encounter such evil when it invades your life. We do.

    All I can tell you is what you undoubtedly know by now: never, ever give out your personal email server address to online contacts until you have known them for a very, very long time, as some are just milking you for info to use to attack you with or forward to those who will. It's why "hotmail" was created, after all, and you can close one of those accounts pronto if you get tagged by a troll. And never ever give out your personal info--health, family, business, anything--until you know through years of trust-building whom you can trust, and how much, among your contacts/friends. There are many of us who have been posting here for years and years, yet we couldn't tell you most posters' personal info or real names if our lives depended on it. It's not even that we don't trust each other, just that we learned the the hard way and simply don't ASK or want to know, because not knowing is how we protect each other, as well.

    So nobody blames you and don't blame yourself. It's a hard lesson to learn. Who knew how careful you have to be over posting on forums? But there it is: evil lives in PEOPLE, and the most evil LOVE the RAMSEYS! :devil:

    Edited to add: I'm kind of reading the posts last to first here, got behind this weekend with family. But if you are being harassed in email repeatedly by shill, that's legally stalking. Call your local PD and make a complaint. They'll advise you. They could subpoena the forum/server for records to identify the perp, in some cases. At the very least, they'll help you figure out what to do about the PERV. (If this has already been discussed, sorry. :blush:
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2008
  4. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    As to Athena being the person behind the "new" hat attacking you at topix, Jayelles, of course the "suspect list" is short anyway, as it obviously is a Sycamore poster who also posted at topix at some point. You make a compelling case for that flamer being Athena. Either it's Athena or someone in alliance with her who has picked up some of the same style and errors in her writing and vice versa; or it's someone wanting to make her look bad by copying her writing style.

    Gosh, that's the "Patsy wrote the ransom note" debate in a nutshell, isn't it? :laffbig:
     
  5. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Hear Hear. I can't remember what the private forum was called - it was a short name. I do remember our beloved Liz and her broken heart. The attack had nothing to do with debating the Ramsey case, nothing to do with honest to goodness sparring or even sarcastic tit for tat. It was an unprovoked, nasty, mean-spirited attack for its own sake. The big kid kicking over the little kid's sand-castle - just because he could.
     
  6. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    What? Oh my. Intelligent is not an adjective I'd associate with that dimwit at all. Speaking of wit, he hasn't any. He tries, but it rises no higher than an immature, adolescent level. His emotional IQ is really in the "challenged" range. I don't even bother to address him, as he's too thick to be worth the effort, IMO. He's a very nasty, emotionally immature male who can't put two and two together and knows it, so throws in as many red herrings and personal attacks as he can trying to hide the fact. He seems to have nothing to offer but negative energy, a true measure of a desperate character. Unless he IS 12, of course. Which I have considered....

    You lose 10 points on this one, Jayelles. :yes:
     
  7. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    It certainly looks like Athena. That did surprise me (note how far down the list of suspects she was to begin with).

    I'm inclined to think that "Solange" was hoping that either Shill or Tipper would get the blame. Shill is an obvious suspect for a start and the initial excuse for the attack was this thread which responds to Tipper's unreasonable attack on an article written by one of our members. But it just goes to show how important it is to study the FACTS because quite a few people thought it was Shill and without studying the evidence, I could have found that perfectly feasible.

    You make in interesting comparison regarding the Ramsey ransom note and how it points to Patsy yet if it isn't her, then it's someone who wants her to carry the can for it. There are so many parallels between Ramsey case behaviour and forum member behaviour. It's almost like a fractal effect.
     
  8. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Hm. I suppose now I have to look up "fractal effect".... :no:

    Unless shill is purposefully writing like an under-educated ******, he isn't capable of writing the "solange" posts. He is linguistically challenged beyond the occasional misspelling, typo/grammatic errors, and overuse of cliche. I have found this consistent in his writing wherever I've had the misfortune to come across it. Let's hope when he advances to 8th grade, he will have improved his language arts.
     
  9. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    hahaha "Solange" is a person who doesn't "belong" to any of the usual forums which discuss this case, but who knows every detail and nuance about them? HAHAHAHA She has, as most trolls eventually do with their own attempt at cleverness, put the lie to her own words:

    How remarkable that a person who hasn't posted on the "JBR/true crime" boards and claims not to have a dog in this hunt is so personally affronted by Jayelles as to come "out" at topix to attack Jayelles so EXTENSIVELY AND IN SUCH DETAIL!

    And ALWAYS, the DOUBLE STANDARD: as you point out, Jayelles, "Solange" hides her USUAL hat identity BEHIND ANOTHER HAT IDENTITY to accuse YOU of being a coward. HAHAHAHAHA

    Those RSTers. They just never stop amazing me with their duplicitous stupidity. They're as good at covering up "their crimes" as Patsy was, IMO. It's always obvious who they are. And they are, as ever, just empty shills who NEVER "get it". Not an honest soul nor a TRUE HEART among them. They simply never see that it doesn't matter what your POV about this case is, it's WHO YOU ARE that shines through. And the people who defend the Ramseys with their personal attacks and deceptive behavior just do the Ramseys NO GOOD AT ALL.
     
  10. coloradokares

    coloradokares Member

    :shamed:
    Thank you so much. I am learning ...Tom MC / Shill/ Toaster/Buckethead/ and I am pretty sure Red Dragon are all one of the same. He was Tom Mc on the first forum I ever went to during the onslaught following John Mark Karr. He has made my life hell since. I have learned much since and the only reason my personal info is out so to speak is my family was getting emails after my stroke How they got my addy I dont know How is CK???? So when I could I expalined to the forum Id had a nearly fatal stroke. Thinking that would quiet things down. Far from it as I made friends with one forum owner the one that Shill claims now hated me all alont with andU. My family gave out information to that forum owner that should never have gotten out. I am forever trying to undo the damage from that. I have learned and one day I hope this is all behind me and I can re earn your trust:shamed:
     
  11. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

  12. coloradokares

    coloradokares Member



    Jayelles, you hang in there. I cannot for the life of me think why anyone would even think to try to do this to you. I thank you for all you have done for me. It is sincerely appreciated. I think you know that everyone here supports you whole heartedly. You are fair and honest and you always say it like it is. You are admired by all. Sycamore has lost a true voice of reason
     
  13. sboyd

    sboyd Member

    I second that Jayelles.

    I love going back and reading those posts. I think we have all done an excellent job of holding down the fort, but Jayelles, you are the best at figuring out who is who. :hourglass
     
  14. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    I'm convinced that this 'Solange' is poster Athena who imo never got over being exposed by Jayelles who had umasked her as being behind the 'JustMe' hat.
    Athena totally flew off the handle on the CL board when realizing Jayelles had unmasked her. I have seen quite a few temper tantrums on forums, but THAT one by Athena was vintage, lol. She yelled at Jayelles in big bolded letters, which made it all the more obvious that she must have felt like Rumpelstilzkin when he realized his name had been found out. :D
    Had she and Jay been in the same room, I have no doubt Athena would have attacked her physically - she was that furious.
    All that bordered on the comical since Athena always was so adamant in the JBR discussions about civilized Patsy Ramsey allegedly not being able to build up enough anger to spill over into a rage attack, and there she was herself, civilized and educated Athena, the resident level-headed Mrs Nice and Fair on the JBR boards, snapping and losing it. :D
    Now one would think Athena, who had burnt her fingers already by being detected so easily as being JustMe, would abstain from playing deception games she clearly is not good at. But rational assessment usually takes a back seat when emotions come into play, and emotions won over once more with Athena when a few weeks ago, Jayelles told the Sycamore board owner that Athena's appalling performance as a moderator (it WAS abysmal indeed!) was the reason for cancelling her membership.
    Imo her spiteful 'Solange' posts are Athena's (easy to see through) attempt at trying to take revenge on Jayelles.
     
  15. coloradokares

    coloradokares Member

    When I anwered Solanges question regarding Why do I stay I felt that was Athena jumping to defend Shill. I have no doubt now. What a bunch of low lifes. She asked why dont I just lleave all forums saying it might be the best iidea. No, not it feels like cutting an running. I have done nothing wrong. At the end of the day I will continue to call for Justice for JonBenet.
     
  16. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    There's another coward posting at Topix in Athena's defence. Tipper lives in Arizona, but I don't think it's her (might be wrong). Ashley's posts sometimes show up as Phoenix and we know she LOVES to get involved in other peoples spats (although she's not alone in that). Ashley's not been around for a while, but we know she can't resist a flamefest so this could being her out from hiding.

    It could also be LindaA or Zoey for reasons which I will explain below. Both of these posters are great pals of Shill. LindaA doesn't post much but she can usually be depended upon to stick her nose in if there's a dispute between posters.

    I don't intend to address all of the atacks which will undoubtedly follow, but I'd like to address this because it's very typical of the kind of attacks I have seen from a certain bunch of IDI posters first at CL and then at Sycamore. I expect the rest to be similar to this one and so my following comments will effectively apply to other attacks too.


    Jayelles has been on Athena's case ever since she was mae Mod at 320

    I admit 100% that I did not think Athena was a suitable moderator for a JBR forum where there were opposing sides. I wasn't alone. But that was not "personal" - it was an entirely logical viewpoint in the interests of fairness. By the time she was made moderator, Athena had already shown herself to be fully aligned to a group who were incapable of discussing the case civilly without barbs in practically every post. Athena didn't do this, but she had made it very clear that these were her buddies and that she stood by them.

    I had absolutely no issue with Athena on a personal level but by the time she was appointed moderator, Athena had already shown us all how keen she was to get Shill to join the group and that was a MASSIVE red flag IMO Shill had caused endless bother at CL and his constant attacks not only disrupted the discussion on a regular basis, but they also caused quite a bit of misery at times too. It is a fact that Shill has driven away several good posters. Shill had chosen NOT to join Sycamore and so here was a chance for a fresh start without the worst offending troublemaker. The fact that this group weren't so keen to get Bullmoose to join Sycamore spoke volumes. Bullmoose adds much more to the discussion that Shill. We didn't see the group posting about how desperate they were for Bullmoose to join and how they were all emailing him to try and persualde him.... There is no doubt in my mind that they loved Shill for his vile attacks on people they disliked. That they ENJOYED the attacks.

    I think anyone who openly supports the kind of behaviour which disrupts discussions should NOT be made a moderator.

    At a personal level, I had no gripe with Athena (none whatsoever!) and if anyone thinks I did - I'd like to see the proof! All I EVER wanted was a level playing field - for SOMEONE to stop the personal attacks and tag team behaviour and I didn't care who that was. I knew from experience that all it takes is a moderator to consistently deal with the bad behaviour for a short period of time and it will stop - the trolls will give up. Discussion is at its most enjoyable and productive when a decent moderator is keeping the troublemakers in check.

    As it happens, my suspicions were correct and Athena proved to be a lousy, one-sided moderator. AND I have the proof of it. Athena consistently turned a blind eye to the barbs and personal attacks made by her own buddies but if the people being attacked responded, she warned them of reported them! I have three examples of where she allowed her buddies to attack/bait/attack and AS SOON AS an RDI responded, Athena jumped in to give a warning "to everyone" - but there it was - mod warning straight after an RDI post every time. Psychologically, people associate the warning with the post above it. I also have examples from the Infraction thread where someone had reported an IDI for a personal attack and Athena saw fit to add a comment defending them! It was appalling and at that time, several really good posters left grumbling that they hated the one-sided moderation. I didn't leave at that time but I saved the threads as proof and when I had numerous examples, I complained about Athena. That was when the JustMe attacks began at Topix.

    I think that words were spoken to Athena about the complaints because for a while, she seemed to make an effort to control the discussion and I know she was aware of the criticism (which did not just come from me BTW). Unfortunately, she eventually just stopped moderating altogether and when I asked her to deal with the flying insults (which were destroying the discussion and giving the forum a bad name), she basically told me to take a hike and that if I had a problem with any posts, to pm Freshwater. That is NOT what we expect from a moderator and I think it is no coincidence that Athena lost her Moderator badge shortly afterwards.


    "Athena has nothing to be ashamed of"

    The fact that "Outside Looking In" from Phoenix Arizona thinks that Athena has done nothing to be ashamed of speaks volumes for the integrity of this person (or lack of it). This person is basically saying that there's nothing wrong with playing nasty hat games whilst being openly friendly with a person. She is also saying that it's OK to facilitate a troublemaker and a bully who makes others life a misery. She's saying it's OK for a Moderator not to moderate her own buddies (doubt she'd say that was on the receiving end of the bile). She's also saying that it's OK to do nasty things in a way which places your friends under suspicion too. I guess "Outside Looking In" believes this is OK because that's what she's doing too!

    JLs
    (I'm quite amused by this one). Note that this person refers to me as JLs. Recently, a poster at CL referred to me as JLs and I asked if I knew him from elsewhere because there was ONE another poster in the dim and distant past who called me JLs. I think it's funny to see it written this way because it's not how I pronounce it. Anyway, that's beside the point. The person who called me JLs at CL is someone whom I've been having a civil discussion with for many weeks. Shill is hating the fact that he has been unable to disrupt this civil discussion and recently, he rather pathetically resorted to attacking the other person. But I'm not suggesting that "Outside looking in" is Shill.... LindaA and Zoey have also joined in with Shill's attacks in the past couple of weeks (their posts were promptly deleted by a Mod) and they would almost certainly have seen the discussion about Jayelles/JLs there.

    So I suspect that this may be a slimey attempt to cause trouble between me and the person who called me JLs at CL. LOL What kind of people are these who are always sneaking around doing horrible things and trying to make it look like someone else?

    Poking Candy with a stick
    Also note the attempt to draw Candy into the fray. This person is clearly out to cause trouble and is poking Candy with a stick in order to get her to add a few insults too. This is particularly pathetic because it's well known that Candy hates everyone and often gets herself into a complete tangle because of it! Poke her with a stick and she will perform on demand. It's also a well known fact that every time Candy "performs", she gets ridiculed. "Outside Looking In" clearly doesn't care if Candy gets ridiculed - just as long as Candy performs when required and directs a few insults to me.

    The bottom line is, many people thought Athena was a bad choice for moderator and she proved them right. Right up until the last day or two, she REFUSED to deal with any of her buddies' bad behaviour. I had to laugh at one of her last posts as Moderator where she said:-

    http://www.boards.320sycamore.com/showthread.php?p=77524#post77524

    Too little too late. If she had done this in the very first instance, things would have been very different.

    As it happens, it was the correct decision for her to be replaced as Moderator and judging by the poor response "farewell as Mod" thread, it would appear that many agree. I doubt she was having much fun anyway. If her friends had been decent people, they might have moderated themselves when it was clear she was incapable of doing it for them. I daresay she might blame posters for her failure to make the rade but at the end of the day - she was the one with the power to deal with trouble. She just didn't use it where it was needed most.

    It's very easy to attack someone and accuse them of being a snake or slime - anyone can do that. However, I have supported every single statement I have made with a source and an explanation and I challenge "Outside Looking In/aka/..." (no doubt this person will be using multiple nics) to provide the proof for hers. Whilst I have fully backed up my grievance with Athena all she and her buddies can do is hurl insults which have no basis in fact.

    It is typical of this group's behaviour - even when discussing the Ramsey case. They cannot simply debate a point without attacking the poster and challenging his/her motives for making the post. It gets very wearing. On three separate occasions, one of them accused me of something or other and I asked them to back it up - show me where I said that. Despite repeated requests, they couldn't. They are opportunists. The accuse and hope that people will believe it without needing to see the evidence.

    A bit like the tabloids really :floor:
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2008
  17. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

  18. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    To a Troll

    The same coward from Arizona posted this:-

    That depends on whether truth, accuracy, honesty and integrity are important to you. I could just hurl insults like you with nothing to back them up. Would that put me in a good light?


    Lots of people - ask Tipper #grin#

    I rest my case - when a person resorts to name-calling without offering anything to back up their case, it says it all :floor:

    Anonymous from Arizona - don't you post the proof of all that you "watched unfold". I'd love you to - but I suspect you won't because IMO all you are capable of is name-calling.

    Athena may well be a nice person and I'm sure she has a lovely family but that doesn't excuse poison pen posts.
     
  19. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Jayelles, the poster with multiple hats attacking you at topix from "all over the world" is actually posting "both sides of the fence", if you notice. Remind you of anyone?
     
  20. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    I think I'm begining to see what's going on KK. I learned something today from an unexpected source ;-) Seriously - you couldn't make it up!
     
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