The bloody pillowcase

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by koldkase, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. Karen

    Karen Member

    Yes, she did. John used it as a babysitter. Remember?
     
  2. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    One more clarification and then I have to go...argh, real life, stoooop! We're working here! :dammit:

    Caveat: Some "assumptions" based on evidence are involved in the following, so it's a given that I can only speculate based on some things we do not know for 100% sure, but which are reasonable guesses based on what we do know.

    I am thinking the blood on the pillowcase is not from the sexual assault, for these reasons:

    The questions asked of Patsy about blood on the pillowcase in the LE interview focused on nosebleeds.

    If JB were already molested THAT NIGHT in her bed, getting blood on the pillowcase, no need to use the paintbrush in the basement to make it "look" like she was molested by an intruder THAT NIGHT, to cover up that she had been molested BEFORE that night.

    So that leaves the head blow being the source of the blood on the pillowcase. I'm thinking forensics should have been able to tell.

    I think LE know the answers to this blood on the pillowcase. Why else would they have asked those questions of Patsy?
     
  3. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    You did not seriously ask me if I REMEMBER? ME? Meno-mind? Oh, you are wicked! Can you point me to which interview? Purty pleeeease?
     
  4. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Good discussion, everyone. Don't have time to post more thoughts, hopefully more tonight, but, I wanted to throw this out before I forget. IMO, there is only one reason why someone would lay socks out on a bed like we see on that second bed. I believe it was because JBR was going to put them on again the next day. You're taking a trip early in the morning so you lay your clothes out on the bed in order to put them on upon rising. Now, why were the pants in a different place?
     
  5. Karen

    Karen Member

    LOL! Wicked? I do believe my DH would actually agree with you....at times.

    Without actually looking it up I will say DOI and be pretty positive about it. (You should see my bookshelf and office. It's a wonder i can find anything at all I'm embarrased to admit.)

    Isn't it a shame we posters have this case ingrained into our soul and Patsy "Doesn't remember, or "Doesn't know" or "Can't recall" because details might actually HELP the investigation??:rolleyes:
     
  6. Karen

    Karen Member

    Or the socks were staging which makes John suspicious since he copped to taking off her socks, boots and coat, two of which were found in different locations than her bedroom. Shoes and coat.
     
  7. Karen

    Karen Member

     
  8. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    I don't believe John took off JonBenet's socks. That's just another lie. Burke said that JonBenet walked upstairs on her own after getting home that night. I think JBR took off her own socks, and per Patsy's instructions, laid them out nicely, ready to wear early the next morning.

    Now that we have evidence JonBenet was never laid on that bed asleep and undressed (and redressed) by her parents as they claimed, it opens up a whole new way of seeing things. Forget what John and Patsy said because that's not the way it happened. JonBenet walked into that room on her own speed. If she is not the one who placed the socks neatly side by side, then perhaps Patsy did, but I believe they were placed there to help get JBR dressed quickly the next morning for the early flight to Charlevoix.

    As an aside, I never believed JonBenet stayed asleep from the car ride and was put to bed the way John and Patsy claimed. However I HAD thought maybe she'd gone to bed later and then woken up. Now I don't even believe that.
     
  9. Karen

    Karen Member

    The pillow didn't necessarily have to be placed there on Christmas night when they got home. It could have been placed there on Christmas Day or even the 23rd since she slept in Burkes room and didn't use it. We will never know what the kids recieved for Christmas other than the doll and Nintendo and bike. She was known to watch Shirley Temple movies and Patsys pagent videos. I assume the police confirmed that since Steve Thomas wrote about it in his book. I wonder if someone else like Arianna was watching something on her TV or one of the kids who were there visiting that day. Anyone who has kids over knows they are all over the place, not just sitting in the hallway making jewelry as Patsy would have us believe. And what if there was more than one kid? We will never know unless Burke speaks up.

    That does look like her pj bottoms under the pillow. I wonder, (I wonder a lot, don't I? lol!) if they were also grabbed up along with the pillow inadvertantly? There is no evidence that I know of that Jonbent refused to do things like put her pj's under her pillow. I mean, if she slept in Burkes room she wouldn't put her pj's under his spare bedroom pillow would she? I doubt it. There is evidence she went to her room and got dressed sometime during the day. I think she changed twice. There was a pair of jeans and underwear laying in the bathroom (with a little more than skid marks in the underwear) as if they were taken off together as one unit. I SWEAR I've seen this picture. Maybe Skank had it and posted it at one time. Police showed Patsy this photo in an interview and she couldn't "recall" if that is what JB wore that day. I think she changed her clothes that day.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2011
  10. Karen

    Karen Member

    ita.:d
     
  11. Learnin

    Learnin Member


    "If she is not the one who placed the socks neatly side by side, then perhaps Patsy did, but I believe they were placed there to help get JBR dressed quickly the next morning for the early flight to Charlevoix."

    Yes, I think these clothes were supposed to be put on the next day. I, also, think she walked up those stairs just like Burke said. Now. Why are the pants in a different place? And. I also think the best time for lint and dust to stick to ones feet is when socks are first taken off and are still sweaty unless, of course, she walked across a surface that was damp.
     
  12. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Yea, it's very likely that kids were laying on that bed, or at least JBR was lying on the bed Christmas day watching videos, thus the pillow at the foot of the bed...I think the pajama bottoms might have been under that pillow.
     
  13. Karen

    Karen Member

    I wonder why a few here think Jonbenet was going to wear the same outfit the following day when she woke up? Is it because Patsy said she was wearing her same outfit the next day? But do we believe that Patsy was actually going to do that or is the consensus that she just never changed out of her clothes that night because she didn't have time or whatever and so she had to explain to the police why she was already dressed and that is what she told police? Is that the reason some think JB was going to wear the same outfit the next day? Because think about it, that would be based on a lie if it were..... because Patsy said she was going to wear the same clothes. Also I don't see how JB's clothes were so very neatly laid out to be worn again. The vest is tossed on the bed haphazardly and the pants are sort of tossed laying on the trunk. I don't see how that translates into the clothes being laid out neatly to be worn the next day. They would have been wrinkled. The only two things laid out neatly are the scarf and the "socks"? To me If something were going to be worn again it would be laid out neatly alogside the scarf and "socks". (That scarf looks like it could be the original strangulation device, it's laid out TOO neatly.....just sayun'.)

    Jonbenet had LOTS of clothes as did Patsy. They didn't have to double up and Lord knows they were't worried about laundry because that was LHP's job. Didn't Patsy say in an interview the kids would get on the plane in their pj's because they would always leave so early in the morning?

    In going back and looking at that picture KoldKase posted I wonder if those are socks. They seem awful large for someone JB's age. It looks like a large white fabric. I would never have considered those as being socks if I hadn't see it written here by a poster. I wish those photos were clearer! It would answer a lot of speculation.
     
  14. Karen

    Karen Member

    Maybe it was sock lint? Have you ever worn new socks and had lint come off between and around the toes? I don't remember anything about dust on her feet? I would also like to know what the inside of her boots were lined with.
     
  15. Karen

    Karen Member

    OK I'm going to backtrack here for a minute and after looking at the picture of the bed and her pillow I have a question and observation. I noticed her pillow is situated longways. Not horizontally like we sleep on a pillow but the other way. And it doesn't look as if it's been laid on, like the puffy part to the right is smashed down. I'm wondering now if that was used that way while she was playing video games or watching videos? Wouldn't it be horizontal? Does anybody have any experience using a pillow like this?
     
  16. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    The reason I think those clothes, on the second bed, might be for JBR to put on the next day, Karen, is because they aren't thrown around the room like the rest of the stuff. It kinda makes sense if JBR only wore those socks and clothes for a few hours to the Whites. The socks, if they are socks, are laid out side by side very neatly. Makes me wonder why this neat person wouldn't have pulled the pink pajama top off the bed and tidied it up just a bit, also.

    Thomas states, in his book, that the coroner noticed "small bits of lint and dust on her feet". I, also, thought maybe it was lint from the socks but lint and dust kind of told me it was from standing on a dirty floor some where.
     
  17. Karen

    Karen Member

    Aren't the pants though? Why aren't they all on the bed ready to put on the next morning?
     
  18. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Thanks. No wonder I didn't remember: I had several strokes while reading DOI. Took me months to recover.... :burnedup:

    Anyone who believes the Ramseys "cooperated" with LE drank the KoolAid with both hands. :crosseyed
     
  19. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Responding to all our speculation on what the protocol of "clothing" was for the next day: we can't believe what the Ramseys told us; we know staging happened all over this crime.

    Upshot: one more set of crazy pieces to add/delete/ponder in this puzzle of a million pieces.

    But I do believe those are socks on the bed. I played around a bit with the photo, but didn't post it as I don't know if this helps. Can't hurt, though.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    They sure seem to have the shape of socks.
     
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