Pineapple and cream

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Kelly, Dec 25, 2008.

  1. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Thanks, DeeDee. So Dr. Meyers didn't give an estimate of 2 hours digestion time, so back to square one.

    I think, from all the discussion on this and the very helpful experiment of learnin with his experience and x-ray machine, 15 to 30 minutes digestion time from eating to the location in the small intestine is probable. Without better info from the professionals like Dr. Meyers, all we can do is make an intelligent guess, after all.

    Yes, Dr. Meyers was very sloppy that day, starting with not showing up until 8 pm. Many excuses have been given through the years, from "he was at another scene" to "LE was getting a warrant", but it's inexcusable for it to take that long. So much so that it plays into my current conspiracy theory: was he was delayed on purpose? Was his work sloppy on purpose?

    Think about it.

    1. The FBI did not take jurisdiction in a child kidnapping involving a CEO of an international defense contractor, with a note "left" by a terrrorist group; instead, the FBI simply walked away without even going into the home, leaving it to a small police force inexperienced in kidnapping, much less by terrorists, to say the least. Does this make sense to ANYONE? Why would the FBI do that? The excuse given is that they already "suspected" it was not a kidnapping by a terrorist group, but that's NOT GOOD ENOUGH. You don't gamble with a child's life. They know this.

    2. The house is not secured discreetly by LE; instead, the crime scene of a child kidnapping by a terrorist group--and that's all they had to work with, but if it was a single kidnapper, the child was still missing, since a search by LE did not reveal the body--WAS NOT TREATED AS A CRIME SCENE AND SEALED, but instead was treated like a tense brunch. Not only were half a dozen friends allowed to stay around, but LE BROUGHT IN TWO MORE PEOPLE, VICTIM ADVOCATES! Cleaning was done, food was offered...WHAT LE AGENCY WOULD TREAT A CHILD KIDNAPPING LIKE THIS?

    3. Arndt, obviously out of her league any way you look at it, was quickly left at the scene ALONE awaiting the call from TERRORISTS who claim to have a CHILD whom they will BEHEAD if their demands are not met. All while half a dozen family friends hang out.... What?! :eek:

    4. Arndt, who makes the biggest mistake of the small BPD that day, sending John and Fleet to disturb the crime scene, called for backup repeatedly AND WAS IGNORED REPEATEDLY, with her calls misdirected to another jurisdiction!

    5. The Ramseys were allowed to WALK AWAY from the home, into the arms of their lawyers without so much as a drive-by and a wave at the BPD.

    6. D. A. Hunter then proceeded to obstruct the BPD investigation, blocking subpoenas of the most elemental investigative evidence like phone records, clothing worn by the family, interviews with THE PRIME SUSPECTS, and eventually EMPLOYED Lou Smit, Ollie Gray, and Jon San Augustin to work on Team Ramseys' defense at the expense of the BPD investigation and the citizens of Boulder, ruining any chance of any indictment for all time. He succeeded spectacularly. Lacy sealed the deal.

    I've never seen anything like it and I hope I never do again. The Boulder DA's Office lawyers are up front and proud that they destroyed the investigation into a child's murder. Even more, they demonstrated the great crack in our justice system: IT'S FOR SALE.
     
  2. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    You know, I think I'm going to start a thread from my last post, and call it "A Conspiracy in Boulder".

    It just makes me so mad, I'm hopping around on my stumps trying to BITE something! [Inside joke, see "New Members" thread....]
     
  3. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    [/QUOTE]
    It is important to differentiate between the stage of rigor at the time when the body was found (at 1 p.m. on Dec 26th) from the stage of rigor Dr. Meyer noted at the autospy, since the autopsy was conducted 19 hours after the body was found. (at 8:15 a.m. on Dec 27th).
    At the time of the autopsy, rigor had already begun to subside in the upper part of the body:

    Mild 1 to 2+ rigor mortis in the elbows and shouders withmore advanced 2 to 3+ rigor mortis of the joints of of the lower extremities (autopsy report)

    http://www.acandyrose.com/12271996jonbenet05.gif
    But wasn't JonBenet's body in full rigor when John carried her upstairs?

    If yes this, would mean that she been dead for approximately twelve hours.
    But suppose she had been dead for 14 to 15 hours when found, wouldn't the the body still have been in full rigor?

    What poster "learnin" wrote a topix is very interesting:
    (bolding mine)

    Just a hypothetical scenario:
    The family arives home at around 9:30 p. m. The is some milling around by all, and around 10 p. m. JonBenet has a pineapple snack with Burke.
    Another half hour passes and something happens at around 10:30 p.m. resulting in the horribe skull fracture.
    Maybe it was a fierce sibling fight during which Burke struck a blow?

    Is it possible to reconcile (timeline-wise) an earlier TOD at 11 p. m. with the the full stage of rigor mortis in which the body was found?

    KK, if would be great if learnin not only posted at topix but also came over here!
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2009
  4. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I only have a minute, rashomon, so just a quick reply for now.

    The process of rigor takes approx. 36 hours. 12 hours to set in full, 12 hours in full rigor, and 12 hours to reverse. But as I think I mentioned, conditions can alter that a bit. For one thing, JonBenet had little body fat and was very small. Because rigor is basically the muscles stiffening and then releasing, the size and length of the muscles seem like they would affect the timeline, but maybe not. I'll have to read again on this to remember, sorry.

    I do think I read that temperature has an affect on how fast rigor developes, and JonBenet was laid out in a room which was cooler than normal room temp of American homes with central heat, though I can't remember if anyone actually TOOK the temp of that room at the time of the murder.

    Or maybe they did, and we just don't know about it. If not, that's another opportunity lost if they didn't.

    At any rate, when John carried JonBenet upstairs, her upper body was in rigor, but for some reason, I thought her lower extremities were not fully set yet...? Maybe I'm confused on that, though. But yes, her upper body was stiff, the reports/sources we have did say. With the window being 12 hours approx. to set in full, then full rigor for 12 hours before the rigors starts to decline, I'd like to see what someone like Dr. Wecht has to say about how long that process would take in a small, think child of 48 lbs. left in a cellar room of cool temps initially for some length of time. Come to think of it, Dr. Wecht probably wrote about this in his book and I just can't remember it. I'll look it up when I get time if someone doesn't beat me to it.

    Yeah, learnin would be a great person to add to our membership, but he might be a bit too classy for the guttah. :fight:
     
  5. madeleine_ws

    madeleine_ws Member

    This is sometimes a bit too complicated for me.....but I think I will take JR's word on it and agree that she died on the 25th. ;)

    http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/07/24-1.html
    John Ramsey's Statement

    On December 25th, my daughter, JonBenet, was brutally murdered ....



    Now if the evidence you guys are talking about place the TOD around 10,11pm I don't even need something else.
    Not even JR lied about that,amazing isn't it.They lied about everything else,but writing dec 26th on her headstone would have been indeed to much,even for them,especially since they were the only ones knowing the exact TOD.
     
  6. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Thanks for the interesting link, Madeleine! Very telling words by John. Truth often has a way of shining through.
     
  7. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Yes, madeleine, you have a good point about JR and the 25th. He should know.
     
  8. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    FFJ membership

    Anyone who has 'survived' positng with Shill and AntiK over at Topix will find the 'guttah' a haven. :D

    I just read learnin's post at Topix; he/she wanted to register at FFJ a while ago but couldn't:
    http://www.topix.com/forum/post/reply
    Is there anything which can be done to make it easier for poster Learnin to register?
     
  9. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Learnin only has to go to www.forumsforjustice.org
    Select ENTER to enter the forum area
    Select REGISTER at the top left of the page and complete the registration sign-up.
    Two things though...no free email accounts for registration, and the quickest way is to sign up is 1)using the same hat as topix which avoids a lengthy "check out the newbie" process, or 2) have a current member vouch for them (which it seems has already happened!) :)
     
  10. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    I always thought this was a tell tale part of the case. How many people do you know who put a different date on the headstone from when the person died?

    She was clearly not found on the 25th, yet John said the world must know what was done to his child on Christmas Day!!!! I don't think so...never did wash with me.
     
  11. Little

    Little Member

    Me either Moab. This points to John knowing that JonBenet died before the clock struck midnight, not in the wee hours of the morning of the 26th.
     
  12. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    exactly...
     
  13. madeleine_ws

    madeleine_ws Member

    Does anyone know what their explanation re the date was?Why 25 and not 26?TIA
     
  14. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member


    John said it was so "the world" would know what "it" did to JonBenet ON CHRISTMAS.

    Again, not THE KILLER, but EVERYONE ELSE. This is a hallmark of the Ramseys and their supporters: they blame everyone BUT the killer and always have. They'd be happy to put the noose around Steve Thomas' neck if they could lynch him. Yet they don't take responsibility for their own part in stalling and obstructing the investigation, which is inarguable. Who withholds evidence for five years in their child's murder? But they blame THE WORLD, and especially BORG--people who spend more time learning about this investigation than they ever have.

    Why is that?
     
  15. madeleine_ws

    madeleine_ws Member

    Yeah,I noticed how the RST works.Whenever they have no more arguments left.....it MUST BE ST's fault! :duh:
     
  16. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member


    And who put this innocent, tarted up CHILD out to be seen as a sexual object by all the world?
     
  17. Elle

    Elle Member

    The Ramseys, DeeDee! Awaiting JonBenét in the future were the "Miss World" contests, had she lived.
     
  18. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Which brings up MORE RAMSEY LIES....

    Remember "...just a few Sunday afternoons..."?

    Remember how the Ramseys insisted on TV and in their book that the pageants were innocent and anyone who saw them as the sexual exploitation of children were sick?

    Fast forward to THEIR DEAR FRIEND PAM ARCHULETA, a woman whose marriage fell apart because of her husband's devotion to the Ramseys, IMO. Mrs. Archuleta was quoted last year telling a reporter, in a very PRO-RAMSEY piece, that Patsy and John argued about the pageants, because John didn't think they were appropriate. Then Mrs. Archuleta let drop that Patsy told her that JonBenet was FLIRTING AND TOO FRIENDLY. Gosh, wonder what brought Patsy to THAT revelation? Because she sure forgot ALL ABOUT IT when they were so DESPERATE to find that STRANGER INTRUDER, didn't she?

    Often young children who are being molested display inappropriate sexual behaviors.

    The autopsy evidence is proof that JonBenet had vaginal injuries that happened before the night she was murdered.

    Patsy called Dr. Beuf on Dec. 17th three times in one hour, after office hours, but she didn't remember why. Apparently, Dr. Beuf never bothered to call her back or didn't make a note of what was the child's problem if he did. Guess having the child end up in the morgue with a paintbrush shoved up her, her skull cracked nearly in half, and strangled with a fashioned garrote didn't jog his memory, either, did it?

    How STUPID do you have to be believe the lies these people have conspired to tell?

    I have never in my life seen people so many people so determined to DENY DENY DENY the truth.

    On Dec. 17th, 1996, didn't JonBenet compete in a pageant?
     
  19. madeleine_ws

    madeleine_ws Member

    Reminds me oh John saying he only went to the talent parts.
    It's either he was jealous (if we consider the taboo subject to be true and I think it is) or he just didn't agree with the circus for other reasons (like what normal parent puts their child in the spot light like this?)


    I was asking this before somewhere else......IF (the hugest IF I can think of) they are innocent,why ignore prior abuse????????????????It would help them narrow down the suspect list fgs!
    IF they are innocent why so proud about JB being a pageant queen if THIS is how she was targeted by some psycho?I would DIE if I'd knew that I was the one who just exposed her to the one who ultimately killed her.I didn't see any signs of guilt,what I saw was PR being proud til the end( her last interview with that pastor) that JB was a pageant queen.Disgusting.



    IF they are innocent it's even worse,what they did to the investigation,how they behaved.It just doesn't make any sense.Why ignore the evidence that might help you catch the killer,how the hell can you reply "Nah,there are no signs that she was sexually assaulted the night she died"...HUH?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
     
  20. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Okay, to answer my own question, I went to ACandyRose.com and again found the discrepancy in the Dec. 17 pageant date which I've been noticing for years. Anyone have any idea which of these dates is correct? I think the discrepancy probably came from transcripts where the date was misremembered by someone and stated incorrectly, then it was on the record.

    If you read these links at ACR, you see how the date changes from source to source. It seems to me the most consistent and probably more accurate sources say the pageant was Dec. 17th. This is the pageant where the "Santa Bear" was given to JonBenet, the one which was yet ANOTHER RAMSEY RED HERRING that ate up police investigation time.

    Also, if you read the second link in full, you will get to see Team Ramsey in full propaganda DISINFORMATION MODE. Amazing, really, when you see Team Ramsey/jams on the forums attacking the BPD, BORG, etc., and making that Santa Bear ANOTHER intruder CLUE for YEARS, all because Patsy told Haney in '98 she didn't recognize the Santa Bear on the bed. Boy, did they get INTRUDER TRACTION out of that one! Even in the Atlanta 2000 interview, Patsy was STILL spinning that Santa Bear as evidence of an intruder.

    Turned out that JonBenet got in at the Dec. pageant. AND IT WAS IN THE RAMSEYS' BOXED UP BELONGINGS, SITTING IN THE PAUGH'S BASEMENT ALL ALONG!! All those years and not one Ramsey thought to go through their belongings to look for this RED HERRING SANTA BEAR? All those WORLD-CLASS DETECTIVES OF THEIRS looking for that INTRUDER never imagined something might have been missed? Come on. If they were looking for that intruder, it's the usual TEAM RAMSEY search: Is the suspect a MENTAL CASE who will either confess or point the finger on TV at someone dead, poor, or otherwise vulnerable to corrupt money and power?

    Oh, yeah, and isn't that WHEN the BLOOMIES PACKAGE was allegedly found, during that search through those boxes for the Santa Bear? Well, that was ONE of jams' stories, at any rate. (Gosh, too bad they didn't keep looking. They might have found the INTRUDER hiding there!)

    Think about it: your child is MURDERED by an INTRUDER, and you are spending a FORTUNE to defend yourself because YOU are the PRIME SUSPECTS, and you don't even bother to LOOK for KEY PIECES OF EVIDENCE among your BOXED belongings from the CRIME SCENE? And when SOMEONE finally tells one of your private investigators to look through your stuff for this Santa Bear years later, HE FINDS THE BLOOMIES PACKAGE AND YOU DON'T TURN IT OVER TO LE FOR ANOTHER TWO YEARS?

    If you want to see Team Ramsey's textbook execution, chapter and verse, of "CREATING SUSPECTS OUT OF THIN AIR," from the Handbook for Prime Suspects: How to Obstruct an Investigation and Avoid Wearing Unflattering Prison Stripes, read this:


    http://www.acandyrose.com/s-jonbenet-timeline.htm

    Now notice that the link provided by ACR for "The Santa Bear" mystery states that pageant was in fact on Dec. 14th, whic would make more sense in relation to Patsy's phone calls after hours to Dr. Beuf. Remember that there was a Christmas party at the Ramseys on Dec. 13th, which I totally merged with the one on the 23rd, which was for the children. Looking at the questions asked of the Ramseys in their '98 interviews, neither Ramsey seems to remember the children there much, so it must have been a separate party?

    http://www.acandyrose.com/s-santa-bear-mystery.htm
     
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