Peter Boyles talks about the recent Grand Jury revelation (Jan. 28 & 29, 2013)

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by cynic, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    But why arrest someone if you never intend to prosecute them?

    Alex Hunter NEVER intended to prosecute the Ramseys for anything! Steve Thomas finally realized that, and it's why he resigned. It's why Fleet White refused to talk and incur more persecution from Team Ramsey. It's why even a true bill indictment handed down from the Ramsey Grand Jury was ignored!

    The "fix" was in before we ever knew what happened. It has necessitated a long trail of corruption, lies and malfeasance ever since.
     
  2. Elle

    Elle Member

    There were several questions Chief Kolar wouldn't answer on one of Tricia's radio shows. He just said he was sorry and couldn't give a reply. He knows it would mean trouble for him if he did! Frustrating!
     
  3. heymom

    heymom Member

    But, as we've known for years, if Burke struck the head blow, or even if he did the whole thing including the molestation and the strangulation that finally took JonBenet's life, he could not have been prosecuted (below the age of reason according to Colorado criminal law). So, one wonders, why the elaborate staging in the first place? Was it just to fool Burke into thinking that he wasn't responsible for his sister's death after all? To make sure Burke never took responsibility for what he'd done? To make sure Burke wasn't removed from the household and taken into custody for evaluation? Or just to cover the adult Ramseys' arses?

    The PJ bottoms being on JonBenet's floor would be strange. Nothing in her autopsy suggests that she had been penetrated by a penis, either an adult or a younger male. The molestation looked to have been done perhaps by a finger. So maybe the PJ bottoms don't figure into the final crime.

    I have every hope we may finally see Justice for JonBenet.
     
  4. Elle

    Elle Member

    Koldkase,

    What I cannot understand is the fact Patsy and John Ramsey made no effort to remove Burke's jammy bottoms lying on the floor knowing the police were actually coming. This I can't understand, because these jammies proved Burke was in JonBenét's room that night (?). I'm confused about this part!
     
  5. OpenMind4U

    OpenMind4U Member

    I think the answers to our questions are in sealed file: Burke's medical history record.

    If these records has any other evidences of prior rage-related behavior and/or reference to other accidents with other children then Patsy's concern of loosing another child was the valid concern. Because regardless of his age, he would be taken away for psyhological evaluation and possibly placed in the special clinic for years!...I'm sure this wouldn't be acceptable for Ramseys! Their image would be forever ruined. One child dead and her older brother in psychiatric clinic!!!! Disgrace!!!

    In regards of Burke's PJ with poop in it, I wouldn't be surprized to learn that this behavior was common by Burke when he was angry at JB. Maybe leaving poop in her room or on her bed was some kind of 'pay back' for bothering him or for touching his stuff.

    Burke was very much 'introverted' child (don't know if he still is). Kind of leave me alone! JB, on another hand, was very outgoing, active, possibly noisy and bored without entertainment...so, the problem is right here already for any parents in normal situation... but if you'll add the possible SBP then danger is waiting to happen...

    jmo
     
  6. BOESP

    BOESP Member

    Somewhere in the last couple of months I read a comment Patsy made about Burke's pajama bottoms. She said something on the order of if JonBenet wet the bed that JonBenet would sometimes put on a pair of Burke's pajamas that he had outgrown because JonBenet didn't always have a clean, dry pair handy during the middle of the night. I am sorry that I can not remember where I read this but, hopefully, someone else here read it and can remember.
     
  7. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    Yes, I do remember that!

    About the poop on the candy- your previous post made me think that BR could have been angry about JB pooping in HIS room (or bed!) that he picked up HER own poop and smeared the box of her favorite candy with it.
    Kinda like when someone gets tired of their neighbor's dog pooping on their property and tosses it back on the dog-owner's property.
     
  8. BOESP

    BOESP Member

    Boy am I glad I mentioned it! Thanks!

    I can see a boy doing that as retribution to his kid sister. Or he could have just tossed the soiled clothing onto the candy and made a remark. There are several "innocent" scenes that could possibly explain the poop-smeared candy although had I pulled that stunt as a kid I'd still be standing up!!!!
     
  9. heymom

    heymom Member

    I don't know...I think using poop as a weapon at the age of 9 is not normal. It shows at the very least, an immaturity - only very young children play with and handle their own excrement. But using poop as some kind of retribution for a wrong? That's pretty dysfunctional. Not normal for a 9 year old boy. But we all know that Burke had his own challenges.

    But then again, for a 6 year old girl to have toileting accidents isn't normal either. I still suspect that JonBenet's toileting problems were related to her vaginal abuse. And perhaps the abuser got angry because she effectively dirtied herself?
     
  10. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Smearing feces on walls and such is a huge red flag that often points to severe emotional disturbance. I worked with E.D. kids (emotionally disturbed) back in the early 90's, and the smearing of feces was considered a warning sign that that a kid had deeper problems than relatively "normal" behavioral issues ( along with self mutilation, "rituals" like pulling out your own hair, setting fires, etc.). When I read in Kolar's book that Burke was doing this, I was stunned. It was shocking to me because, in my mind, it was an extremely important behavioral clue.

    I work in downtown Austin and my building is just two blocks away from the homeless shelter, and we have had several incidents with disturbed homeless people sneaking into the building to use the restroom, and smearing feces all over the walls. Back when I worked near campus in the 90's, I allowed a homeless guy to use our bathroom. He smeared feces all over the walls despite the fact that I had really done him a favor--so there was no motive there, he was just unbalanced, obviously.

    I now believe Burke's medical records are the key to solving this case. If his records contain just some bouts of the flu and things like that then why be so protective about them? If anything, normal illnesses and nothing more would put Burke in a favorable light.
     
  11. wombat

    wombat Member

    I totally agree with this. He had a psychiatrist, not a social worker or a therapist, but a medical doctor, which indicates to me they knew they had to deal with deep problems in the child.

    Burke is living life right now, absolutely silent and under the radar. He is an adult citizen, and like Tricia said (well, shouted) on her radio show, he needs to MAN UP. If we are right and the grand jury evidence will be released, he may as well. There's going to be paparazzi at his front door.
     
  12. BOESP

    BOESP Member

    I by no means believe handling poop is normal behavior by a six- or nine-year-old. But I can see a young boy tossing fecal-stained clothing on their sisters candy stash while having an immature tantrum.

    I don't know how much fecal material was found and the exact details. It sounds gross when you first read what Kolar wrote but if Burke tossed a pair of poopy pajama bottoms on top of the candy then JonBenet grabbed them up, smearing the candy in the process, it isn't quite as sinister as it seems--immature and bratty or sinister????? I'm just saying there are several possibilities concerning that candy.

    Regardless of what happened, had I been involved, my parents would have spanked my hind-end. Maybe that is how JonBenet's injuries started. I just don't have enough information to come to a conclusion based on a sensational statement I read in a book.
     
  13. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Burke won't "man up." He has nothing to gain from it and plenty to lose in terms of inheritance. Coming forward would be stupid on his part--It might be the right thing to do, but this is real life. He'd be cutting his own throat.

    Now, if he talks to a friend...
     
  14. BOESP

    BOESP Member

    Yes, I understand about the fecal-smearing and agree with you. I also believe his medical records, as well as JonBenet's, might give better insight to the family dynamics. But I don't have enough information to conclude that Burke killed JonBenet because he was emotionally disturbed. I can think of several reasons why his medical records should be kept private, including some type physical abnormality, or a possible deviant act he endured that has nothing to do with JonBenet, or emotional issues unrelated to JonBenet, or a few other potentially embarrassing issues or ailments.

    In a nutshell, I need more information. :mame::mame::mame:
     
  15. Elle

    Elle Member

    You must be one very special person, Bob. Not everyone can handle this type of work. We should all be better educated about situations like the
    ones you were confronted with.

    What troubles me about the situation with the feces being smeared in JonBenét's bedroom. Patsy or John never cleaned it up before the police came (?). I'm truly puzzled by this! (?).

    Linda Hoffman wasn't working that morning, and in her statement she stated when she arrived for work most mornings, Patsy had JonBenét's sheets in the dryer - I'm wondering if this cleaning up feces was a regular deal? Maybe Linda can now publish her book. What do you think, Bob?

    I would also like to add I have always felt Burke Ramsey was sadly neglected in this family. Attention was always on JonBenét and the dresses she would be wearing. I think he was tired of this whole scene and the smearing of the feces was rebellion.
     
  16. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Boe--I am not suggesting that one incident proves anything. I am looking at the big picture. Just being 9 yo and seeing a psychiatrist is unusual as is wetting the bed and defecating in the bed. Jonbenet having the same issues is another clue. The fact that she was asking adults to "wipe wipe" for her at age 6 is strange. Then we have the evidence of chronic vaginal trauma. We also know that Burke had struck JBR before, which Patsy said was an accident. We also know that Burke was quiet and introverted but had an explosive temper, both before and after the murder.

    If it were any one or two of these things, I wouldn't be suspicious--but all of them put with the murder itself? Something was very wrong in that home IMO.

    Remember, one of the first things Ramsey said publicly was that his was a "normal family." That always stuck out to me, since no one had suggested they weren't.

    "Forgiveness..."
     
  17. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Hi Elle. I loved that job but the pay was not even what a person could survive on. The things that happen in real life to kids are so much worse than what you ever see on TV. I didn't let those things get to me because I knew that the kids were in a better place now and were being protected.

    Re: Not cleaning up the feces. Patsy may not have even known it happened. The bedroom was cleaned up but she might have missed this in her panic. Patsy would clean up JBR's bedding every morning before the housekeeper came on, which tells me that Patsy found it embarrassing.
     
  18. heymom

    heymom Member

    Not only that, but if the elaborate staging that John and Patsy carried out on JonBenet was done in order to convince Burke that HE wasn't at fault for JonBenet's death, then in his mind, he has nothing to confess. I would think that after 16 years, and all the brainwashing he could have been exposed to all this time, he would think that he has nothing to do with her death at all.

    Yes, John Andrew's insistence that JonBenet's killer needed "forgiveness" was pretty darn telling, wasn't it???
     
  19. heymom

    heymom Member

    When I worked on the far end of that spectrum, in the group home for children who'd been abused and were multiply-handicapped, or were handicapped from birth, I was single and with minimal needs. The pay just paid my bills and allowed me to eat, not much else. I didn't have a car at the time and took the bus to work. And the emotional toll it took was cumulative and after a year, I just couldn't take it any more. The kids were great - they had been innocent and they gave unconditional love. I wasn't in any physical danger as you may have been. I know I couldn't have done the work you did.
     
  20. Elle

    Elle Member

    If she was embarrassed, Bob, why didn't she clean up the feces in JB's room before the police came that fatal morning? Was she hoping the cops would think it was the killer having fun?

    It was good you could handle those gross situations with the children you worked with.
     
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