Aphrodite Jones on the Ramsey case

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by whitewitch1, Mar 31, 2011.

  1. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Thanks, RiverR, I thought it must have been him since he was described as a large man.
     
  2. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    I am composing a letter to Jones right now. Basically it is a courtesy "heads up" about what we are going to do and my feeling on the show last night.

    I'll post it when it has been sent.
     
  3. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Just read that BPD took the original window into evidence while freshing up on dates over at ACR's. Smit's reinactment took place with completely different frames which is Insulting!
     
  4. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Don't forget that after all of the Naked Breaking & Entering, John was at least courteous enough to go back outside and replace the grate!

    Yeah Right...
     
  5. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Thank You! We can very easily counter everything without selling out...
     
  6. Elle

    Elle Member

    Thank you, Learnin. They should have picked a man with the same height and build as John Ramsey instead of Lou Smit for that experiment.
     
  7. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Not only did the agency who processed the crime scene take the window unit, but they took the actual door to the cellar room.

    People can criticize the BPD and CBI all they want, but the only reasons they couldn't solve this case are the Ramseys themselves and Lockheed Martin, IMO.

    John never climbed through that window, I don't believe. If he had, he would have described how he really did that. What he described wasn't physically possible in that space of window well, and with the window four feet from the inside floor. He had no idea what it was like to climb in that window, clearly. So he made it up as he went to be convincing. Classic example of lying--he over did it. Big mistake, if anyone in LE was listening. Of course, the ones who were had their hands tied; the rest were either incompetent or corrupt, or both. [Lou Smit and Alex Hunter, take that, wherever you are!]
     
  8. Learnin

    Learnin Member


    I think you're right, kk. John never climbed through that window.

    1. If I locked myself out of that house, I'd go get one of the many keys that had been given to friends, etc., or:

    2. I'd sure pick an easier window to break and enter.

    So I'm asking myself why John would fabricate that story. Evidently, the window was broken ealier in the year because Patsy said she and LHP cleaned the glass up. LHP would have caught her in a lie then and there so the window must have been broken. I'm wondering if Patsy ever told LHP how it got broken. If she didn't, I think this might be why John would fabricate the story of him being locked out and entering through that way.

    1. If P and J were staging this crime, they needed an entrance and exit. They remembered the broken window in the basement and remembered that LHP knew it was broken because she had helped clean the glass up.

    2. John could have fabricated the story that he broke the window when he found himself locked out. Why? Because, if John entered "the locked house" that way, then, the intruder sure could have entered "the locked house"
    the same way. Who was the first person thrown under the bus? LHP, the woman who helped clean the broken glass up.

    I'll always believe, until proven otherwise, that JR took FW to that train room so FW would notice the broken window before JR "discovered" the body. At that time, he was able to throw in the juicy little item that he, himself, had gotten into the locked house through that very window....hint, hint.

    Just thinking out loud as to why John would fabricate that story if, indeed, he did. At any rate, this theory would hinge on whether or not LHP was told, at the clean up time, as to how the window was broken.
     
  9. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    That all makes sense, Learnin.

    It has always been a question for me as to why John wouldn't just tell the truth about who broke the window, since it's obvious to me he is the one person who didn't.

    I have asked myself many times why would he feel the need to lie about who did break the window. The only answer I have is he was protecting someone.

    LHP probably could tell us and probably has told LE what the Ramseys' story about that broken window was when she cleaned it up. I have never seen anyone say if or what she said, though. Of course, John and Patsy would know what LHP had been told, so maybe they told her that it was John even back then. If the Ramseys were protecting someone immediately after it happened, maybe it was someone who was exhibiting behavior more questionable than just forgetting a key.

    At the swamp jams came up with a completely unbelievable BS story that John actually had someone WITH him the night he broke the window, and that person can verify John's story! She knows who the person was, but of course, she can't say.... And by the way, she has a really good deal on a bridge in Brooklyn, if anyone is in the market. :rolleyes:

    So we not only have John fabricating his "break-in" story, but we have even more lies being told by the RST to back him up. They're pretty desperate to have John's and Patsy's lie about the window-breaking believed, aren't they?

    If you notice, when Patsy gives her version of the "broken window" story, she goes into such detail about cleaning it up, she also is clearly covering up something. Since I believe John lied, then I have to believe Patsy was aiding his lie.

    Now, the one thing we heard repeatedly from the Ramseys, and which is verified by the "train room," is that children played in that basement a lot. It stands to reason JonBenet would have been comfortable playing there, as well. Just thinking here....

    I wonder if the window was broken from the inside?

    Because of the grate, it's not likely someone accidently broke it playing ball or anything.

    Patsy even kept a key outside at one point, didn't she? The couple across the street had a key. The maid had a key. In fact, before the Ramseys were through spinning tales, half of Boulder had a key. Like you, Learnin, I wonder why anyone locked out just didn't call and get a key or break an easier window?

    One reason I can think of is that it was very late at night. I have pondered whether JAR might have been the one to break the window to get in, maybe when the family was out of town and he might have even been drinking, etc.? He was underage for drinking in 1996, 20 yrs. old. He had been arrested for that earlier that year, in the fall, I'm thinking. His frat house was about five blocks away from the Ramseys, I think I remember reading, so maybe he brought a girl there?

    One thought: if John had some mystery person with him and they broke in for some reason, like it was late and they were drunk, maybe it was JAR and he's the one who climbed through the window. Maybe the element of truth in John's story is that he didn't want to mess up his nice suit, so his partner in the window breaking did the dirty work? One thing about John's story that is simply theater of the absurd is that he took his suit off, but then put his shoes back on to back through the window. In his underwear. On his knees. If he had company, and the company was younger and wearing jeans or something, he'd be likely to climb through, not John. Maybe telling that story would lead to questions about where they'd been, etc., and maybe the pious Ramseys didn't want to admit that JR was drinking with his underage son?

    Just speculating, of course, but really, it can't be that complicated, can it? They had some reason that led them to lie about who broke that window, but the Ramseys weren't running liquor or selling drugs for a cartel; they were just average Americans with the same vices and virtues as the rest of the average population...up until JonBenet's murder, at least. Whoever broke that window orginally, the Ramseys must have lied to LHP for some personal reason, and once it became part of their "intruder" cover up, they continued the lie for more serious reasons. For one thing, JAR was awaiting judgment on his underage drinking charge when the murder occurred, so that could be part of it.

    Or maybe the Ramseys were out of town, or it was the weekend, so the issue with breaking the basement window instead of a glass in a door or upper floor window was simply that a broken basement window was not visible from the street, was protected by the grate, and tucked into the basement room. It was not a problem that might be created from an upper/other window being used for entry, like rain, wind, or snow being blown inside. Also, maybe other basement windows were not as easy to get to, or had other obstacles under them, with all the stuff stored around, etc.

    Just brainstorming, of course, but the reason I speculate is this: why would the Ramseys have a reason to lie about this prior breaking of the window, as the glass being cleaned up clearly would have come up, as you point out, Learnin. What you say about them using that to create the entrance/exit for the intruder is logical; what isn't logical is why they'd lie that it was John who broke the window when it wasn't.

    Who were they covering for? It had to be someone whom they did not want to drag into the investigation further. JAR's suitcase was under the window, with his semen on the contents and a child's book there as well. Whether that was related to the molestation or murder at all, I don't know, but Smit and his gang of Pink Panthers certainly like to point to fibers from the suitcase being on JonBenet, don't they? So maybe it was JAR, or even Burke playing around, and the Ramseys were protecting them from further questions and implications about activities that had taken place in that basement where JB was sexually assaulted and murdered on Dec. 26.

    We'll probably never know, because Team Ramsey sure isn't going to reveal the truth about it, IMO. Not when they'd have to explain why John and Patsy lied to LE about something so critical in the investigation of their child's murder.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2011
  10. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    And after that long post I just wrote, I have to say that the reason this murder was never tried was the Ramseys were absolutely gifted as liars. Trying to cut through their huge web of lies spun to conceal the truth, with Alex Hunter obstructing the investigation at every turn, was nearly possible. It's taken us 14 years to get this far.

    If the Ramseys' lips were moving, they were lying, IMO. Still are, IMO.

    From Whynut's website, if it's okay to put this here: tell me Lou Smit did this repeated "entry recreation" and never once questioned John's BS story. If Smit didn't know full well John lied to him about this, then Smit was either in full denial, completely incompetent, or just plain corrupt.

    [​IMG][/URL][/IMG]
     
  11. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    Patsy said she kept a key in statue on the lawn somewhere. She had given the statue a french name (was it Francois?) because as we know, she was obsessed with things French.
     
  12. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Well, I'll say one thing. If John actually did go through that window, several months before, he was hiding something. And if he had a companion with him, it was someone, obviously, that, for him, is better left unknown.
     
  13. Learnin

    Learnin Member


    There is only one way to get into that space and that is the way Smit went into it. You surely don't go down that opening feet first. Now, a child could negotiate it much easier. Do we know which pane of glass was broken?
     
  14. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Here's the only photo that I remember seeing of that window in situ from the actual morning of Dec. 26:

    [​IMG]
     
  15. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Thanks, DeeDee. Was it the "lawn jockey"?

    I can't remember without looking it up again, but if anyone does: did Patsy say when she took that key from the statue, or was she wishy washy about it to give yet another source for that intruder to enter? But then, why didn't John use it? Were the Ramseys trying to have it both ways again?
     
  16. Elle

    Elle Member

    Courtesy of Little: Steve Thomas "Jonbenét"

     
  17. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    Going back to the Hi-TEC boots, Patsy was questioned about them in 2000. (The reference to there being no size difference at the end refers to the fact that the logos are the same size on the adult and children's shoe. Only the logo, according to the police, was discernible in the shoeprint.)

    21 Q. Okay. Is this the first time
    22 that you've heard that Burke says that he
    23 had Hi-Tec?
    24 A. Yes, it is.
    25 Q. This is the very first time?
    0132
    1 A. Yes.
    2 Q. When you said in your book and
    3 then you said at other times too that you
    4 didn't own either brand --
    5 MR. WOOD: Hold on. If you have
    6 got a reference of the book.
    7 MR. KANE: I'm sorry. Page 232.
    ....
    9 PATSY: I think we were
    10 referring that John or I didn't, did not
    11 ever have -- were not in possession of --
    12 Q. (By Mr. Kane) So when you said
    13 we, you were referring to John or you?
    14 A. Yes. It never occurred to me
    15 about Burke's shoes.
    ....
    23 Q. (By Mr. Kane) But I mean, but
    24 my question was, when you said we, you were
    25 talking about you or John?
    0134
    1 A. Well, what is the, what size
    2 print is the Hi-Tec? Is it a child's or is
    3 it an adult's?
    4 Q. I don't think there is any
    5 difference between the two. And I think
    6 that has been pretty well publicized too.
     
  18. Elle

    Elle Member

    Research: Courtesy of Little : Steve Thomas " JonBenét"

     
  19. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Thanks for finding that tidbit, Elle. Interesting that there was still broken glass outside the window on the concrete. I think that was some of the broken glass that a stager put on the floor which FW picked up that morning.

    I, also, wonder why there was glass outside the window when JR supposedly broke the glass from outside in order to get in.
     
  20. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Good point...no difference in the logo size between child and adult. I, also, find it very interesting how Wood jumped in when Kane asked why the Rams stated, in the book, they didn't own any HiTec shoes....Guess they didn't think Burke said anything about his.
     
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