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  #1  
Old January 13, 2005, 9:24 pm, Thu Jan 13 21:24:21 CST 2005
Cherokee Cherokee is offline
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Default Exactly how long was the "garrote" string?

I've made comparison images of two documented photos of the "garrote." Each photo showed a different part of the ligature: one was the knot around the stick, the other was the loop around JonBenet's neck. I had never seen them put together in one photo to show the entire length of the cord.

I was wondering if an American Girls doll string could be long enough to use for the garrote. FFJ poster "Sue" says some of them are very long, and have to be trimmed shorter as they go all the way down the doll's backside. She also said the cords are made of different materials. Some are flat and some are round.

After viewing the images, it appears to me an American Girls doll string WAS long enough to form the garrote. In fact, it could be exactly the right length.

I've posted the image of the two photos joined together to form a continuous string.
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Last edited by Cherokee; January 18, 2005, 1:50 pm at Tue Jan 18 13:50:27 CST 2005.
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  #2  
Old January 13, 2005, 9:42 pm, Thu Jan 13 21:42:06 CST 2005
Little Little is offline
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Thank you Cherokee, that's impressive work.

I did some searches trying to see if there were any specs on the dolls about the length of cord. I did find one site that had a diagram of how to re-string the dolls, but I don't know if that would have involved the same cord that was as the base of the head of the doll. I think it may have been more for an elastic-type cord to join the arms and legs. If it wasn't for that, then the cord loops over what looks like a frame inside the doll. I would think that would account for a good bit of cord.

Little
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  #3  
Old January 13, 2005, 9:48 pm, Thu Jan 13 21:48:16 CST 2005
Cherokee Cherokee is offline
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Thanks, Little. :-)

It looks like there's enough American Girl doll string to make the garrote ... now what about the tie around JBR's hands? Could that have come from another American Girl doll? Or was the original string long enough to use for both of them. If, as you say, it looks like the cord loops over the inside frame of the doll, then there would be quite a bit more string not showing down the back of the doll.
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Old January 13, 2005, 10:47 pm, Thu Jan 13 22:47:08 CST 2005
Elle_1 Elle_1 is offline
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Cherokee,

The cord for sure is very flat, and looks like the trim around Patsy's Navy blue Jacket/Blazer. JonBenét has a similar navy jacket also trimmed around the lapels, so this cord could have also come from Patsy's craftwork box.

The part with the handle attached is on record as 17" in the autopsy, so you would need to add on the part for the neck, and the part with the two loops for the wrists. I would think this would end up as more cord than included for these dolls (?).
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  #5  
Old January 14, 2005, 11:25 pm, Fri Jan 14 23:25:17 CST 2005
sue sue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elle_1
The cord for sure is very flat, and looks like the trim around Patsy's Navy blue Jacket/Blazer. JonBenét has a similar navy jacket also trimmed around the lapels, so this cord could have also come from Patsy's craftwork box.

The part with the handle attached is on record as 17" in the autopsy, so you would need to add on the part for the neck, and the part with the two loops for the wrists. I would think this would end up as more cord than included for these dolls (?).
That picture is very helpful. Someone posted the measurements of the "tails", which were 4 inches and 17 inches. That makes 21 inches, which would make the American Girl doll string long enough (I figure it could be 21 inches, plus or minus 1 to 2 inches). I had forgotten about the part that went around her neck. With that, the string from the doll is too short unless there is some hidden place where 2 strings are joined together.
Also, the garrote string in the pictures posted here does look shinier than the doll string.
I'll try to take some pictures of American Girl dolls to post after the weekend.
it would be interesting to have a sample of the cord from the jackets.
There aren't that many companies that make trims like that. Here are the 2 main brands that you would find at stores like Joann Fabric or Hancock Fabric:
http://www.wrights.com/products/trims/trims.htm
http://www.coatsandclark.com
There are some other companies I found on a google search that make trims, but I've never seen them in stores. They might be available to professional seamstresses though:
http://www.ginstrim.com/trimwide_trims.html (wide trims)
http://www.ginstrim.com/trimnarrow_trims.html (narrow trims)

The garrote cord looks like something called "Middy braid". That would be very flat (since it's made to be sewn down flat), about 1/4 inch wide and would most likely be polyester or polyester combined with something else (like cotton or rayon). That would make it slightly to very shiny.

http://www.wrights.com/products/sewing/pkgtapes/531.htm
http://www.coatsandclark.com/find_a_...g_products.htm

I don't remember where I saw the picture of the jackets, but I think the trim looked wider than 1/4 inch.
[quote=Little]Thank you Cherokee, that's impressive work........
I did find one site that had a diagram of how to re-string the dolls, but I don't know if that would have involved the same cord that was as the base of the head of the doll. I think it may have been more for an elastic-type cord to join the arms and legs. .........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherokee
Thanks, Little. :-)

It looks like there's enough American Girl doll string to make the garrote ... now what about the tie around JBR's hands? Could that have come from another American Girl doll? Or was the original string long enough to use for both of them........
The string at the neck of the doll is a single piece of string the goes in a channel of cloth sewn at the top of the doll's torso (like the top of a pair of drawstring pants). That string is about 18-22 inches long.
The other string inside the doll that holds the legs and arms on is a completely different material, an elastic cord with a cotton (?) cover.

Seeing the picture of the entire garrote, it looks to me like they had a certain amount of cord to use - they could have made something that "worked" with a lot shorter piece of cord. So, the appearance is that they wanted to use up all the material they had.
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Old January 18, 2005, 2:20 pm, Tue Jan 18 14:20:46 CST 2005
Cherokee Cherokee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elle_1
Cherokee,

The cord for sure is very flat, and looks like the trim around Patsy's Navy blue Jacket/Blazer. JonBenét has a similar navy jacket also trimmed around the lapels, so this cord could have also come from Patsy's craftwork box.
I've seen the navy blazer with the white trim illustration you mention, and it's very convincing. www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7615/chord.html

I got to looking at end of the cord where it was cut from JonBenet's neck, and I noticed a small white piece protruding from inside the outer cord material. I think the inner piece looks like elastic, and the outer material nylon. I'm not a seamstress, but isn't that what the white braid on JonBenet's and Patsy's jackets was made of? Nylon braid with an inner elastic cord?

I've posted a comparison photo below with the tip end circled where the elastic shows from the cut away nylon covering.

I agree with Sue, and other posters, who say the ligature and the wrist bindings were too long for practical use, and that someone was trying to use up a piece or two pieces of cord they already had lying around in a work basket or paint tote. That's why a "roll" of cord was never found.
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  #7  
Old January 18, 2005, 9:28 pm, Tue Jan 18 21:28:58 CST 2005
sue sue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherokee
I got to looking at end of the cord where it was cut from JonBenet's neck, and I noticed a small white piece protruding from inside the outer cord material. I think the inner piece looks like elastic, and the outer material nylon. I'm not a seamstress, but isn't that what the white braid on JonBenet's and Patsy's jackets was made of? Nylon braid with an inner elastic cord?
I wouldn't call myself a seamstress, but I have sewn all my life. I'm not sure exactly what the braid was made of from the pictures, but you wouldn't usually use something with elastic inside as a decorative braid. It would be too hard to keep it flat for sewing. You would usually use a woven braid that is just one layer.
I haven't seen any cord like this, but it could be a core of flat cord with a woven outer layer. From what you can tell from the garrotte pictures, it might be made of something like that.
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Old January 18, 2005, 10:25 pm, Tue Jan 18 22:25:48 CST 2005
Cherokee Cherokee is offline
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So the flat innner layer of the cord wouldn't necessarily be elastic, it might be made of the same material as the outer layer ... just not braided.

Thanks for the information, Sue.

Have I given myself away that the last sewing project I completed was back in 8th grade Home Ec?
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  #9  
Old January 18, 2005, 10:27 pm, Tue Jan 18 22:27:54 CST 2005
Elle_1 Elle_1 is offline
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Sue and Cherokee,

This was where I first saw the photos of the trim on Ruthee's site when I first started on this case over three years ago.

http://www.acandyrose.com/ruthee.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/nebula/9337/trim.html

You will also see the garrote cord close up too. It is definitely flat, and I don't think there is elastic in it, because this type of woven cord stretches by itself. I think Ruthee was right.
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Old January 19, 2005, 7:31 am, Wed Jan 19 7:31:45 CST 2005
sue sue is offline
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Yes to both of you.
The center part could be the same material or it would have to be one with similar properties (ie, you wouldn't have the inner core be made of nylon and the outer of cotton or vice versa, because the cotton would shrink and the other wouldn't). I would probably use middy braid, which is flat and doesn't have an inner core for a trim like that, but the professional seamstress might have had options besides Joann Fabric and she also might have used something that more closely resembled the trim that was on Patsy's jacket to make JB's look more like it.
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  #11  
Old January 19, 2005, 10:06 am, Wed Jan 19 10:06:46 CST 2005
Elle_1 Elle_1 is offline
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Default Jacket trimming

Patsy Ramsey was one of those mothers who liked to have her daughter dressed like her. She herself could have put the trim on, Sue, and the garrote cord, which is similar to this trimming could have been in her sewing box, but Pam Griffin did do a lot of JB's outfits, so more than likely she could have been the one who did the trim, but JB's jacket doesn't look professionally done to me, Sue (?)

JonBenét Ramsey was in trouble on Christmas afternoon, when she wouldn't comply to her mother's wishes - wear a red top and black pants because this was what Patsy herself was wearing. JonBenét opted for another little outfit she had picked herself. John Ramsey talks about the boots JB wore with this outfit, with the top of them having animal trimming.

Edited to add more thoughts.
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Last edited by Elle_1; January 19, 2005, 10:39 am at Wed Jan 19 10:39:14 CST 2005. Reason: to add more thoughts
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