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  #1  
Old February 21, 2006, 12:30 pm, Tue Feb 21 12:30:33 CST 2006
Golden_Rose Golden_Rose is offline
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Default John Ramsey found JonBenet at 11 in the morning?

In the book JonBenet by Steve Thomas it said:
A witness broke the truth about John Ramsey's time of finding JonBenet's body. Stewart Long ( Melinda's boyfriend) said that when they arrived at 1pm they were only aware that JonBenet had been kidnapped. Steward said John Ramsey climed into a van with him and John Andrew. He told them that " JonBenet is with Beth now." John described how he had discovered the body around 11 o' clock that morning. The same time Detective Arndt thought John went to get the mail.
I am wondering what is this all about and is it true or not?
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  #2  
Old February 21, 2006, 2:42 pm, Tue Feb 21 14:42:31 CST 2006
Elle_1 Elle_1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden_Rose
In the book JonBenet by Steve Thomas it said:
A witness broke the truth about John Ramsey's time of finding JonBenet's body. Stewart Long ( Melinda's boyfriend) said that when they arrived at 1pm they were only aware that JonBenet had been kidnapped. Steward said John Ramsey climed into a van with him and John Andrew. He told them that " JonBenet is with Beth now." John described how he had discovered the body around 11 o' clock that morning. The same time Detective Arndt thought John went to get the mail.
I am wondering what is this all about and is it true or not?
Steve Thomas would not have written about this if it had not been true.
It is true. In Steve Thomas "JonBenét PB page 156-157 Stewart Long phoned Steve Thomas and broke his silence. A slip of the tongue by John Ramsey, to his son, John Andrew, in a van outside the Ramsey home on 26 December, 1996, caused doubts as to the exact time John Ramsey found JonBenét's body, which was found just after 1:00 pm. by JohnRamsey and Fleet White, with Det. Linda Arndt. on the premises.

Of course, in the usual Ramsey manner, it was brushed under the rug.
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  #3  
Old February 21, 2006, 8:22 pm, Tue Feb 21 20:22:21 CST 2006
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icedtea4me icedtea4me is offline
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And let's not forget what John said in the doc that aired on A&E- "...called the police, sat around for four hours, then I went downstairs and found the body."

Could John's mentioning of 11:00 be in reference to central standard time for John Andrew, Melinda and Stewart who were in Minnesota which is in that time zone?

-Tea
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Old February 21, 2006, 9:08 pm, Tue Feb 21 21:08:39 CST 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icedtea4me

Could John's mentioning of 11:00 be in reference to central standard time for John Andrew, Melinda and Stewart who were in Minnesota which is in that time zone?

-Tea
If you were conversing with someone in another time zone, and you were telling of what time you got out of bed that morning, would you say you arose at 7am (your time), or 8am (their time)?

I believe when JR said he found the body at 11, it was a rare truth from him.
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Old February 22, 2006, 3:56 am, Wed Feb 22 3:56:17 CST 2006
Elle_1 Elle_1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icedtea4me
And let's not forget what John said in the doc that aired on A&E- "...called the police, sat around for four hours, then I went downstairs and found the body."

Could John's mentioning of 11:00 be in reference to central standard time for John Andrew, Melinda and Stewart who were in Minnesota which is in that time zone?

-Tea
Steve Thomas "JonBenét" page 156-157

I almost dropped the telephone as I reached to make sure the "record" button was pressed on my tape recorder. "When you say eleven o'clock that morning, are you assuming that was Mountain time or Eastern time?"

I'm assuming that was Mountain time. He said 11 o'clock, so I'm assuming he was speaking of his own time reference.
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Old February 22, 2006, 8:51 am, Wed Feb 22 8:51:47 CST 2006
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icedtea4me icedtea4me is offline
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The note said a call would be made between 8 and 10. The deadline for the call has passed. I just think it makes more sense for him to have come across the body closer to the 10 a.m. time, as opposed to the 11 a.m. time. I mean, why wait an hour? Also, if it was 11 a.m., then why wouldn't John have said "We called the police, sat around for five hours, then I went downstairs (actually, he says 'downscares') and found her body"?

This past Saturday evening I was talking to a friend of mine who resides in the EST zone, while I'm in the CST zone. She had to go do something but said she'd call me back. I looked at my watch and asked if she could call back 45 minutes later at 10:00 - her time.

I guess, basically, when all is said and done, the point is that John had contact with JonBenet's body at least 2-3 hours prior to the "official" time of finding her at 1:00 p.m.

-Tea
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Old February 22, 2006, 9:52 am, Wed Feb 22 9:52:39 CST 2006
Cranberry Cranberry is offline
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After 10:00 came and went w/o the call, Linda Arndt was still giving JR instructions on what to say to the kidnappers, i.e. tell them you can't get the money till 5:00 pm, IOW it was clear LE was in for the long haul - all day all night. Then the kidnapping scenario abruptly ended at 1:00 with not many details in between IMO.
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Old February 22, 2006, 2:40 pm, Wed Feb 22 14:40:55 CST 2006
LurkerXIV LurkerXIV is offline
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Default John Ramsey--Congenital Liar

Why would a person, innocent of the murder and the coverup, wait from 11 a.m. until 1 p.m. to notify authorities and all the guests at the house that he had discovered the body?

This is one of those "consciousness of guilt" things that pop out at you.
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Old February 22, 2006, 4:44 pm, Wed Feb 22 16:44:14 CST 2006
wombat wombat is offline
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Why wait? How about this:

1. John knew nothing when he heard Patsy's scream at 530 AM. Then he took a look at the ransom note and saw Patsy's handwriting, more or less, but he went with it, because - Where's JonBenet?

2. He has to deal with hysterical Patsy, then the cops, so he's not focussing on the handwriting.

3. After Patsy plays him for a while by making him get ransom money from various funds, he has a moment to think about what's actually going on.

4. It's 11 AM. He goes downstairs and finds the child. He doesn't yell, that's not John, but he's smart and sits and thinks. What he has here is another daughter dead, a wife with ovarian cancer, a business that takes all his time, and a young son that he loves - so, he goes back upstairs and thinks some more. Maybe the calculation was that he already suffered enough, and that he could control the situation.

5. 1 PM - perform the "delivery" of JonBenet from the basement.

Another scenario I think is likely is that he knew Fleet White had looked in the "wine cellar" and didn't see JonBenet because the light from the hallway didn't reach her body, but John knew she was there, so he had to arrange for a search where he could be the first one to open the door.
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Old February 23, 2006, 4:29 pm, Thu Feb 23 16:29:46 CST 2006
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That sounds plausible Wombat!
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Old February 23, 2006, 5:28 pm, Thu Feb 23 17:28:39 CST 2006
Elle_1 Elle_1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat
Why wait? How about this:

1. John knew nothing when he heard Patsy's scream at 530 AM. Then he took a look at the ransom note and saw Patsy's handwriting, more or less, but he went with it, because - Where's JonBenet?

2. He has to deal with hysterical Patsy, then the cops, so he's not focussing on the handwriting.

3. After Patsy plays him for a while by making him get ransom money from various funds, he has a moment to think about what's actually going on.

4. It's 11 AM. He goes downstairs and finds the child. He doesn't yell, that's not John, but he's smart and sits and thinks. What he has here is another daughter dead, a wife with ovarian cancer, a business that takes all his time, and a young son that he loves - so, he goes back upstairs and thinks some more. Maybe the calculation was that he already suffered enough, and that he could control the situation.

5. 1 PM - perform the "delivery" of JonBenet from the basement.

Another scenario I think is likely is that he knew Fleet White had looked in the "wine cellar" and didn't see JonBenet because the light from the hallway didn't reach her body, but John knew she was there, so he had to arrange for a search where he could be the first one to open the door.
I must admit, Wombat, I have also thought this scene you have just described, could have happened, because of John Ramsey's agitation when he came back up from the basement. One can imagine the horror John Ramsey was faced with, if he did actually come across JonBenét's body at 11:00 am. Especially when this was the statement he made in the van to his son, John Andrew.

I'm positive he knew where the body was when he headed for the basement, when asked to find anything out of place, or unusual by Linda Arndt.

Yes, Wombat, it could have happened this way, thrusting the whole staging shebang on Patsy Ramsey (?). Steve Thomas thinks it happened this way.
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  #12  
Old February 23, 2006, 6:04 pm, Thu Feb 23 18:04:43 CST 2006
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Wink Wombat,

Your theory sounds good but I have a question for you. Why was it so important for JR to "find" the body? Why not let FW or another LE pereson find her. Wouldn't that make his being "so innocent" even more believable. When he did find her and carried her upstairs he held her like a dirty old board with nails everywhere when he carried her upstairs. This was his own flesh and blood ferpetessake. As they went down the stairs to search again John could have said to FW, "you look on that side and I'll take this side or some such thing."

And as far as his exclaimation of " OH NO" when he went into the room...I have had the thought for years that what he was remarking about was perhaps the odor of death that had begun to form in that precious little body and not "oh here she is and how awful"!!!!! Just MHO is all.
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