Prized Possession: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?

Re SBTC & Darlie ...

True Crime,

You know you kept me tossin' & turnin' the other night. My brain kept spinning away with SBTC this and SBTC that, so you know I anticipate what your conclusion is on the S.B.T.C. sign off.

Personally, I actually believe the note was penned in the basement and while rummaging and scurrying around Pats came across the plaque that belonged to John from his time at Subic Bay.

And I'll tell you why I think this .... at the outset of the initial JW Forum, I was trying (without much luck) to come up with a hat and was unsuccessful. On a previous night though, we had ordered Chinese food from my favourite restaurant named 'Mandarin' and so I quickly typed it in and voila, I became Mandarin. That's why I think, that Patsy (or whoever wrote the note) in a desperate state, took note of something that was perhaps in a cupboard or elsewhere in the basement, thinking of course, that no one would ever clue in.

Anyway, that's just my hunch. The Victory part though, sounds very theatrical and dramatic and matches Patsy to a T and of course one of her favorite programs was called 'Victory' and I believe if was a program about cancer survivors.

Re Darlie ... in the book I read, she actually had double EE breast implants (a la Dolly Partin). The thing that does it for me (regarding her guilt) is: a) the hesitation knife marks on her neck and other places, the blood spatter on the back of her night shirt, her dna in the sock, the broken 6 foot fence that was latched, her amphetamine use (diet pills), her disappointment with the 3rd child being a boy, post partum depression, and finally, the fact that her compulsive shopping was coming to an end because they were in dire financial straits. But most of all, I think Darlie did herself in, when she testified - a true narcissist (sp?) who thought she could beat the wrap. And of course, her own initial 10 page statement was utter hogwash and totally unbelievable even to an amateur sleuth. Her husband Darin, to me, is just a big dolt, nothing more, nothing less. Darlie probably knew about the previous botched burglary attempt but she could hardly bring that up, while she was on trial for killing her 2 boys, etc.

Okay, I'm done True Crime. But no one will EVER convince me that Darlie Routier is anything but GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY.

Regards,
Mandarin

 

Mandarin!

I enjoy your replies.

Your comments are most interesting. I'd say you have the SBTC pegged. Think about it. From a mothers point of view.

Now as for Darlie, I didn't meant to bring in a new subject, but I found your comments there most interesting as well.

I must admit, if I am thinking from the guilty perspective, I can't shake the inkling that I as a mother would have immediately began asking about my youngest, Drake.

But then, I look at those wounds and they look pretty severe.

I'd like to know more about their past!

SBTC!!

Victory!

(I like you!)

 

Darlie

Psychopaths learn from the behavior and mistakes of other psychopaths.

Darlie proabably read Fatal Vision, or more likely saw the mini-series. She knew how Jeff MacDonald's self-inflicted wounds were not severe enough to avoid scrutiny (they almost were, and it took years before his butt wound up behind bars for life). Darlie needed to ratchet it up a notch. Wouldn't even paralysis be better than jail in her mind?

The only comparison I'd make between Routier and Ramsey is that the women were the sole targets for prosecution, possibly because the evidence against the men was too shallow to be worth pursuing. Certainly, though, both men deserved to be looked at closely.

I shed no tears for Darlie Routier. And at the rate Texas executions are going, she may not be around that much longer.

 

Darlie

Texas Monthly had an article that they may re-open this case and look at some evidence that may be exculpatory.

 

Nope

There's no connection to Subic Bay because there isn't and never was any Subic Bay Training Center. This is just one of those media concoctions that never had any basis in reality but somehow gained legs.

We may never know what SBTC meant but I'd put a hundred bucks on "Saved by the Cross." She's panicing, trying to cover up the murder she just did, and there was intense guilt and fear, so Saved By The Cross was wishful thinking on Pat's part IMO.

 

hmmmm

Interesting--never heard that one before. We'll never know, I'm afraid.

 

Why would she not spell that out? I mean SBTC isn't a easily recognizable acronym is it? I've seen several religious based sites which use the acronym SBTC so maybe that was something already in her mind.

 

Alrighty, then

Patsy was notorious, it seems, to use letters to signify who a person was. Patsy seemed notorious for using capital letters to signify who a person was. (she labeled Susan Stine with her creditial, for example)

Personally, I don't think the SBTC stood for saved by the cross. An ending to a message/letter should indicate WHO the person was, not some nondescript mumbojumbo about saving by the cross as that's NOT a person. Hope I'm making sense to others, here.

For instance, it would have made more sense to say:

Steve Bassett Tennis Champ

OR

Step Brother To Child

OR


Soft Ball Team Captain

OR...and this is NOT a person


Stand By To Chat

Stand By To Call



The SBTC needs to be wheedled and cajoled by us.

 

TrueCrime

Hello There,

What is it about men that are married to trophy type wives, whether they be southern belles or trailer park queens? Men who love these women, will stand by them till the end, but certainly not because they actually love them in ways that every day people do.

So let me make one remark - they do so because they are as shallow as the object of their desires. John Ramsey, Darin Routier and others were actually trying to protect only one thing - THEIR FINANCIAL STATUS & IMPORTANCE in this life. I'm not a man but I do know that the male ego cannot withstand their existence when they feel left out and pushed to the side, no matter how much money they still have in their bank account. They need to feel that they are needed because laundry, beauty pageants, home decor, children's activities, etc. simply do not do it for them.

Why else do you think we keep hearing Lyn Wood fronting for John Ramsey with his non-stop carping about "he (JR) can't get a job anywhere"! He mentions Patsy's cancer only as a sympathy card to throw into the mix. But John Ramsey, like Darin Routier chose to stand by their wives, in spite of the fact that perhaps their indifference toward their trophy mates might have been the catalyst that brought about their personal tragedies. In fact, that is probably the very reason that they did so - i.e. out of some sort of guilt complex.

The Routiers and the Ramseys intrigue me in a lot of ways - they were both attractive couples, with businesses (more or less) grown out of their homes; they were both ostentatious (the women more than the men) and I know this similarity is silly but, both Patsy and Darlie had breast implants and both of them were trying to lose weight in order to be the trinket their hub's desire, as they had been at the outset of their relationship.

Darin Routier said in court that it was no big deal that his wife was consuming diet pills. But guess what, so was Jeff MacDonald consuming amphetamines & like Patys, his child had a bed wetting problem. Patsy was on something to control her weight (she admitted this in some casual interviews). Sooooooooo my feeling is that amphetamines are basically speed and although they have a bad rep, people have no idea how bad they can become when women abuse them in an effort to attain an hourglass figure. As well, men do the same thing in gyms with steroids, etc.

I'll end off with some thoughts about S.B.T.C. but first I must say something. Let's assume that we are the author of the letter and that we have just (in a manic state) throttled our child ... ya gotta believe that from that point on you are no longer the person you were before. YOU'RE FRANTIC, YOU'RE DESPERATE, YOU'RE ANGRY, YOU'RE ALONE, YOU'RE SCARED! But most of all, you know you have to conquer the situation in whatever way you can.

So the word Victory is illuminating - actually it's kinda natural when you think of the horrid situation. Coming to the end of a saga like that would feel at the very least, victorious. But the S.B.T.C., if you were trying to fool someone, would have to convey a meaning that somehow was mysterious, considering that the ransom note itself was supposed to be from a foreign faction. The author is trying desperately to convey that the deed has been done by an outside factor and what really cements this for me is the fact that the author chose to put those 4 letters in at all. The person writing the note was directing it at JOHN specifically, with a lot of anger & sarcasm I might add but at the end, the code S.B.T.C. probably didn't mean a whole lot of anything except primarily to baffle people.

Still, like TrueCrime, I believe when those letters were chosen, there had to be a reason or a source for them. How bout these:

Southern Belle Trumps Competition or See Beth This Christmas.
Send Body To Charlevoix or She Beat The Cancer!

Of course, to me, I really think, the author was trying to convey that a foreign faction of sorts (as the note depicts) was the culprit and the S.B.T.C. acronym was supposed to stand for some sort of foreign company or corporations. Remember that the ransom note included a reference to John's business and his bonus and therefore I think the author wanted the reader to think that S.B.T.C. was a foreign terrorist group.

Oh well, will any of us ever know.


Regards,
Mandarin

 

TC, Re Darlie and Knives

You know TC, you're almost right when you say that moms don't usually kill their kids with knives. Moms are emotional and spur of the moment emotional triggers.

Think about this, moms that kill their kids have such a variety of ruses that none of us would ever be able to catalogue them. That's why it's important for me to state my feelings that women actually kill (if and when they do) with what ever is at hand.

I doubt that ANY woman would ever use a gun to snuff out their kid because the weapon is actually a little foreign to them. But a pillow, a knife, a strangulation device, peprhaps drowning in a bathtub, etc. would all be up there as weapons of choice. Because to me anyway, a mother's traumatized state is what would lead up to the demise of her children and whatever was available at the time, would obviously be the weapon of choice., be it a knife, pillow or rope.

I do not think that most women ever contemplate, in a '1st degree murder way', the destruction of their kids. I may be wrong of course. Obviously there are very weird Moms and Dads but I do think they are the exception.

The fact that Darlie chose a knife and Susan Smith chose to drown her kids and lest we forget, Diane Downs who shot her kids is proof to me that women act out differently, no matter what their situation is at the time of their turmoil, rejection and depression. Other women, who passed their kid's demise off as SIDs deaths are typical. Women, in their own weird way, find a way to garner attention.

They all, to me anyway, did it because their children were in some way cramping their spousal lifestyle/aspirations and making life a little uncomfortable for them. They, in turn, responding to some dark corner of their mind, made that fatal choice to mete out fatal damage to their kids. Unfortunately, they could not respond to their children's needs at a crucial time when the child actually neeeded nurturing and comforting, rather than a brutal and unexpected beating the way most Moms do.

When I think of Patsy Ramsey and Darlie Routier (same goes for Sue Smith, Diane Downs and a host of others) I do not separate myself from them. I remember full well, the rage I felt at the neglect from a husband while I tried to deal with the personality and puberty changes of a developing teenager. Somehow I managed to get through the difficulties and the bad days (and let me tell you they were extremely DIFFICULT) but I guess people like Darlie, Susan and Patsy were cut from a different bolt than I was. They were, I guess, a little more narcisistic than me, kinda like my husband and sister (just had to get that dig in! - Sorry Vic and Dee)

Thank God there is a justice system for parents who take their rage out on innocent children because as a somewhat 'bleeding heart liberal' I hate to admit it friends, but I actually empathize(sp?) with these wayward women. At least I know, from my point of view, that it is only luck, circumstance and the way I was brought up (perhaps) that I did not sink to the levels that these lost souls did. The media will never let us know what dark secrets these tortured moms endured and I guess the Moms won't ever tell us either, but I am so glad that that my daughter's upbringing is behind me now and she is a successful Occupational Therapist, whereby she actually helps (sometimes emotionally and psychologically) people come to terms with their ongoing life long probs.

I do have to admit though, that thru her teenage years, there were times when she could have easily killed me and I could have at least given her a bruise or two in payback. I chose to be the proverbial Joan of Arc, martyr whatever because I sincerely believe that whatever anger/rage she could hurl my way, was in some ways deserved. Children learn from their parents, and they honestly pick up the personality attributes fthat Mom and Dad provide to them (good or bad), unfortunately. They give back to you what you honestly thought they never saw. We are all creatures of habits and like the monkeys, you know kind like, "Monkey See, Monkey Do!" Hyprocrisy is our middle name.

Where am I going with this? Really don't know - just one of those things that keep haunting me every time I go back to the JB case. In other words, although I've always been a true crime sleuth & my quest to know why people do the awful things they do will be eternal, there is a very small part of me that keeps nagging at my conscience & it's this ..... "do you, Mandarin have the right to involve yourself in a gab fest that may, at times, tarnish the reputation of people no matter how bad they are? (I can hear a resounding yes from all the cuious and faithful members!!!)

Fortunately, the present forum, initiated I believe by Dunvegan and assisted by significant others, i.e. Trish, VP, Watching You, Lurker, even RiverRat and my personal fave LurkerXiV are really what make all the difference. Since I've been on a sabbatical of sorts, I don't know all the hats and really, I apologize to any of those that are here regularly.

I really like the current forum and I am ashamed to admit that I was part of the previous JW Forum run by Chris whom I really, really (and I mean really) liked! When Chris fell from grace it really bothered me, because I truly felt that my character judgement of people was faulty and I began to doubt myself.

Steve Thomas, in a small way, restored my faith in the human race, in spite of the fact that I knew he really wasn't an angel but still I really admired the man for standing up to not only the Ram's financial brick wall, but also the system. He, strangely became a personal hero for me and I guess he always will be.

Guess that's why I'm spewing so much tonight .... I really think the world is very unfair when someone like Steve (or his publisher) has to keel over to the Ram's unending steam rolling. I just wish that either Patsy or John would curtail all this b.s. and admit that this was just a very horrible night in their lives, when one of them just couldn't cope anymore.

But they never will and so therefore I guess I'll always be drawn back to the definitive Jonbenet forums in an effort to hopefully, one day, find a reason, why a cute little made-up barbie doll, named Jonbenet Ramsey, wound up dead in her parent's cold basement, clothed beautifully and yet garroted and pseudo-abused in a feeble attempt to cover up the unexpected rage of a parent that loved her. The rage, neglect, indiffference & torment of the perpetrator I guess we will never be allowed to know.

Some things will never be known and I guess this place is as good as any to vent our feelings. Guess that's why I'll always ring in from time to time, because you'are all so very human and when I think of Lurker XIV, I guess I'll be turning in more often to catch his/her humour remarks from time to time.

Regards,
Mandarin

 

Amen VP

I honestly couldn't have said it better.

The Rams though, are moving down in social ladder. To us morons here, they're perhaps making a drop of "oh I would say", perhaps a million dollars. i.e their other Atlanta home was reportedly $1.8 million and the the one they're moving into is somewhere around $600,000.

Oooooooooooh how tragic ... the Rams have fallen for grace.

But I have not, for a single second fallen for their ********.

I'm cynical enough to believe that the move might have been engineered by L Wood and JR in an effort to prove to the world that that don't have any assets worth suing.

Ya gotta remember, NO MATTER WHAT, Wood & Ramsey are in a full time job suing anyone that even spells their name wrong.

Like Johnny Cochrane, every once in a while, they play the C card., as in Patsy's alleged ongoing miraculous cancer treatment recoveries. They're all bogus and it's really sad to know that the Rams consider the loss of their financial and affluent circle was far more important than Jonbenet, even though she was the tired little girl that was supposed to make they all BILLIONAIRES by eventually becoming Miss America.

Jonbenet's in a safer place, because honest to God, had she lived they would never let her live down the bedwetting and more importantly they would never have wanted to confront why she not only had a serious enuresis problem but also a 'fecal problem' from time to time. She was pretty yes, but Jonbenet had serious emotional and psychological problems which she unfortunately expressed through involuntarily peeing the bed and occassionally defecating too. She was acting out and thank God for that. She never became a 'shallow' beauty queen'. After all, why should she need it - her parents were billionaires, but little did Jonbenet realize that money never buys happiness and it can neve fill an empty cup (as in Patsy & Pam's failed attempt at Miss America).

And what a blood shame, that shallow John actually had the nerve to name his boat 'Miss America' Can you not see the pressure Jonbenet was under? They had to close down the Access office cause Pam, Polly and Nedra had the offices filled with pageant paraphenalia. So to say this fam was obsessed with a future Miss America and Jonbenet would be it, is what I feel the whole tragedy was about.

Jonbenet simply couldn't either understand or take it anymore and sadly, she paid the price for going along with Mom, Pam and Nedra's quest for a future Miss America, a quest that had ultimately left both her daughters empty-handed and without any trophy at all. HOW SAD AND PATHETIC THEY ALL ARE!

Regards,
Mandarin

 

SBTC

I have begun to think, as of late, that if Patsy wrote the note, in haste to get on with her life, she may have been stumped as to how to sign her letter (yes, and a very wordy letter that took it from note to letter) so she might have thought like this.


Well, we decided to write a note from some big terrorist coalition and dammit, we can't think of any offhand. Well, I'm tired, DEAD tired, I just want to get on with this and get back to Georgia as John promised if I would write it, I'll come up with something. Doo, doo, doo, do. (music from TV question show). Hmmm. Crap...well, I'm stumped. tick, tick, tick. (time fleeting until time to go meet Archuletta at airport). HEY!!! I got it!!! I'll just sign it Some Big Terrorist Coalition. Wait...journalist that I am, I can't be THAT vague. Well, I'll just sign it SBTC and let the world figure out what it means. I'm tired, need to freshen up my makeup, and get on with my life. (CURTAIN RISES, STAGE LEFT as drama unfolds).

 

Something from Prized Possession

Mand, BobC, Imon and the rest of you: I've very much enjoyed reading all of your opinions! Yep, Bob, Dale Yeagar (seraph.net) is sure SBTC means Saved by the Cross. IMO, the concept is right on, but the acronym is off.

There is only one thing SBTC can mean! IMO, Saved by the Cross is way to trite for the writer of this particular message. Remember, the child is already dead as the scribe is writing, she is very emotional. She is going to justify this crime using her religion - that is for sure. She's rambling her way to the end of the note, going back and adding tails to her a's, and hesitating many times throughout the note.

Now, I have something for you to chew on (especially you Mand!) (partially from Prized Possession):

<blockquote>Patsy R is a writer. Patsy R loves acronyms. She is college educated. So, as a journalist and a bereaved mother, <b>why hasn't Patsy R ever ventured a guess as to what SBTC means?</b> Why? Because she <em>already knows!!</em> And it's none of our business. It's between her and God.</blockquote>

 

"she doesn't guess because she knows"

Yeah I'll go for that.

Trite it may be but this was a woman stressed out of her mind. Plus Patsy is abit on the cheesy side. Remember when she did the "I say po-TAY-to, you say pot-TAH-to" song? Kel FROMAGE!

 

More

I just can't buy into the religious aspect of SBTC, just can't, but then, I keep my mind open...or TRY to. LOL

How about this?

Signed By The Criminal

Some Big Time Criminal

Some Body Took Christmas

 

Imon....

LOL! I would not have thought of the Christmas one!

 

True Crime

That was very insightful .... i.e. why has Patsy never tried to come up with what the SBTC stood for?

Funny isn't it, the rest of the entire world is spinning their wheels, wondering what it means and yet the thought never occurs to her, or at least if it did, she never said so publicly on TV or in a book, to my knowledge, anyway.

As a matter of fact, both she and John never seem to discuss the ransom note at any length. They tend to shy away from it and the contents completely - that's very telling and thanks for bringing it to my/our attention.

I think the only thing they ever commented on was the $$ amount in the ransom note, saying that "John was worth millions, or words to that effect" but even there, I actually think it was Nedra and Grandpa Paugh that initially brought up the ridiculous $$$ amount in the ransom note.

Thanks again TC

Regards,
Mandarin

 

SBTC

Considering everyone on team Ramsey likes to refer to as "that child," maybe the last two letters have been solved for us all along?

Working from that premise solve SB.

Strongwilled baby <i>that child</b>
Smothered by <i>that child</i>
Sinful baby <i>that child</i>
Screwed by <i>that child</i>
Shownup by <i>that child</i>

 

SBTC

It's possible Patsy never had a conscious idea about what those letters meant. Just randomly picked to sound eery and mysterious.

 

Exactly Mandarin

Now, doesn't that scream strange to you!!??