DNA Questions, "Touch DNA" & "Familial DNA"

I agree with that!! The blanket was tucked "lovingly around her..papoose style", and now...the scarf, is "tucked around her like a final blanket of love". As another poster once said...yes, they loved JonBenést to DEATH.

 

Truer words have never been spoken...

 

This gives me a chill.

 

For Smit, John observed that JonBenet had been wrapped "papoose" style in the blanket in the basement. John even used body language to show Smit how it was done. Then there is the photo in DOI of John holding JonBenet as a baby...wrapped up all "papoose" style....

I think someone had been "tucking" the child in for some time, and this led to her death.

 

About "shill"...who has the most appropriate hat, doesn't he?

It's difficult to have a discussion with someone who is ignorant.

It's difficult to have a discussion with someone who is just hateful, abusive, and enjoys hurting others.

It's impossible to have a discussion with a complete jerk who is all of the above. That's shill.

So I don't read his mean filth. Same with Anti-K. I scroll because they are extremely abusive people. Life is too short to voluntarily interact with people like them. It's very frustrating and a waste of time and energy. Who needs it?

 

Hi Whitewitch - great to see you here! :wave:

 

Hi rashomon! where are you these days?

 

I'm still waiting for this wonderful new technology to be tested on the ligature. Surely anyone who pulled on that cord would have left at least a few of those little skin cells.

Little

 

You and all the rest of us, Little! (?).

 

One wonders if those knots could have been tied wearing cloth gloves of some kind. Of course, every hair-dye kit has latex gloves in it. But wouldn't there be some of the chemicals from those on the cord? Have they even TESTED the cord for ANYTHING like that, to determine if the killer wore gloves at all during that?

More importantly, would they find any of THE RAMSEYS' DNA on that cord? Remember that none of them TOUCHED it after the body was found. JR only admitted trying to take off the wrist bindings. Neither he nor Patsy have ever once said they even saw that garrote in her neck, that I remember. So no Ramsey DNA should be on that cord.

So...if they find ANY Ramsey DNA on that cord, which Team Ramsey has claimed for 12+ years belonged to the "intruder" and him alone, that he brought into the house and is proof of the intruder...that would be important.

Which is why I believe Lacy NEVER had that cord tested. If they found Ramsey DNA, they'd NEVER, EVER, EVER tell us. Because that would be a slam dunk. And the BDA would have to admit it's too late to take this to trial, because Patsy's dead, JR would blame her, and that's that.

IOW, I don't believe for one minute they're doing ANYTHING in this case. NOTHING. NADA. NEVER. NO MORE. :no:

 

Hi Rash! I've missed you. Where have you been?!

 

Hi WW!

Sorry for being so late in replying, WW.
Where I have been - long story. Life has its meanderings, and it was actually the JonBenet Ramsey case discussion which finally got me interested in philosophy where I'm currently quite busy posting on a forum.

A while ago, I had been discussing Patsy's lack of empathy with a fellow poster who mentioned the philosopher Ayn Rand in that context. This got me interested in Rand and I finally landed in a discussion on a philosophy forum where many of her followers are. It got controversial pretty soon since I'm not an Ayn Rand supporter at all. But then I'm used to dealing with fierce 'opponents' in debates, posting at Topix with the likes of Shill, AntiK and Mame has been quite a good preparation for that.
Meanwhile I have become so interested in philosophy as such that I would like to study history of philosophy. But to attend classes in addition to my full time job, I just don't have the energy (not to mention learning Old Greek which is required). I always admire people who still do have the energy to study after coming home from work.

But I'm still reading here at FFJ regularly, and have also been at Topix again recently.
Always glad to you see you, WW! We have been have been 'posting companions' for so long and fought quite a few battles for justice for JonBenet against many attacks fom IDIs, on various forums, but this here is a special place.
I hope poster 'Learnin' has been able to register here - he wrote at Topix there have some problems. I'll see if I can find the post.

 

Riley Fox case

IDIs often bring up the argument that the foreign DNA found in JonBenet's underwear found solely in the small area of the underwear that had blood spots on it.
But this is an unsupported claim.

For suppose the blood dripped on the panties where foreign DNA had been deposited during the manufacturing process, then the bloodspots would mingle with this foreign DNA.
Mary Lacy herself had said formerly that the DNA was probably artifact, so imo this points to the scenario outlined above.
As is known, when Dr. Henry Lee bought the same type of Bloomies, he found foreign DNA on them too, and who has seen pictures of those third-world sweat shops (Why_Nut posted one a while ago) where clothing is often manufactured won't be at all surprised at Dr. Lee's findings.

So the DA's office, must have had a reason to call the DNA artifact, and transferring this as touch DNA to the longjohns does not suddenly transform artifact to something else, despite Lacy, letting herself be confused by the touch DNA findings, hastily 'exonerating' the Ramseys.

A while ago at Topix, poster Candy made an interesting remark about Lacy possibly fearing consequences as in another case (Riley Fox).

I'm not well informed about this case, so anyone please correct me if I've got something wrong:

The little girl's father Kevin Fox had confessed to detectives that he accidentally killed his daughter by swinging open the bathroom door early on June 6, 2004. The impact caused her to hit her head on the bathtub or toilet, Fox told investigators.
He stated that he then, in a panic, staged a scene of sexual assault and drowning. Hikers found Riley's body in a creek four miles from her home, a short time after Fox reported the girl missing on June 6, 2004.
Fox was arrested in 2004 after a 14-hour interrogation investigating the death of his 3-year-old daughter, Riley.

But he was freed from jail eight months later when DNA evidence failed to link him to Riley's June 2004 drowning and sexual assault.

A firm hired by the family determined there was DNA on the girl's body, and lab results excluded Kevin Fox's DNA. He was freed after eight months in jail and maintains he was coerced into confessing he killed his daughter.

In stark contrast to Fox's gripping testimony about his alleged mistreatment during a 14-hour interrogation, a lead Will County detective investigating the 2004 slaying of 3- year-old Riley Fox testified in her parents' civil suit that Kevin Fox was never pressured or coerced into giving a confession that he accidentally killed his daughter.

Fox first filed his lawsuit against the state's attorney's office and former Will County State's Attorney Jeffrey Tomczak in July 2005. Six detectives and other law enforcement personnel were also named as defendants.

Source:

http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/Kevin.Fox.Will.2.339922.html

Therefore Lacy may have feared similar consequences: a Ramsey lawsuit against the DA's office, so she exonerated them.

It looks like Fox won the suit; any info or links would be much appreciated, since this is an interesting case to compare to the JBR case.

Crucial questions:

What kind of foreign DNA was found on Riley's body and where?
What type of head injury did she receive?
Has there been any forensic evidence linking the father to the crime?
Has anyone yet been arrested for the crime after these years?


Theoretically, there also exists the possibility of DNA results misleading LE to falsely exonerate the guilty.
In the Penny Scaggs murder for example, foreign DNA found on the body seemed to exonerate the husband, but since other overwhelming circumstantial evidence linked him to the murder, he was (rightfully) convicted.
IIRC, it later turned out that the foreign DNA was from contamination in the test lab.

To get back to the JBR case: could it be that Lacy indeed feared similar consequences: a possible Ramsey lawsuit against the DA's office, and that's why she was so quick to exonerate them on that flimsy touch DNA - to be "on the safe side"?

 

Nice to see you back posting again rashomon so full of enthusiasm. I see you have a few new posters here you appear to know quite well, Whitewitch and Learnin. I wish them and yourself all the best and hope some of you discover something new. I really can't get back into it again, but then I was involved for a long time off and on the JonBenét case. I'll still keep reading and post a few lines but not to the same extent I once did. I'll leave this to all you younger ones.

It was difficult to read about little three year old Riley Fox. It left me feeling very sad to think her father could actually cover up an accident like that and try and turn it into a murder(?).

 

Thanks Elle for your kind words. TWW and leanin are both great posters indeed.

From learnin's recent posts at Topix: (Learnin, I hope you don't mind if bring this over here, to but what you wrote was so interesting):

Hmm - "Dare not risk finding it on the ligature" gives a lot of food for thought. I wouldn't put those thoughts past them at all.
For from the day that case had been handed over to the Hunter's (successor Lacy), it was ruined for good.

Or it was like you assumed above: they dared not risk finding anything on the neck ligature so they did not suggest it for testing.

And as to what extent the CURRENT task force really WANTS wants to find out the whole truth remains to be seen.

Too bad neither the new DA Garnett nor police chief Beckner were asked at the press conference whether the neck ligature had been touch-DNA tested too, and if not, WHY not, and if it has not been tested yet, whether they plan to have it tested, and again, if not, WHY not. Inquiry is the mother of truth.

Police chief Mark Beckner is not what one would call a paragon of courage, to put it mildly. (see ST's book and what he wrote about Beckner there).
So with Beckner heading that task force ...

As for the new DA, will HE have the courage to speak the truth about there being NO intruder once he has studied the evidence? Time will tell.

 

Hi Rashomon,

I would add to this discussion that a Topix poster, AK, included some quotations from LE which even raise my suspicions further. In these quotes, it seems as if the investigator suggested BODE scrape the sides of the longjohn waistband. His reasoning being that the perp would have dressed and redressed JBR. You would think the murder weapon would be the first choice of this investigator! The surface area is much smaller and one could zero in much easier to the appropriate place of contact.

 

Well, it certainly seems that no one in Boulder wants it solved. Does anyone out there think there is one speck of hope that the new DA , and the new task force, is open to going where others, before, would not go?

 

No. They are all cowards. LW still has enough of a horse in this race to prevent it.

 

No! Not a chance! We haven't heard too much from them at all!