Patsy Is Dead

Your comparisons don't hold up to scrutiny, darlin'.

1. None of these girls were LEFT in the house. All were taken away from their homes.

2. None of these girls had a staged crime scene surrounding them like duct tape put on AFTER they were dead.

3. None of these girls had a perp who left a rambling three-page "ransom note" for a kidnapping that never happened by a group that didn't exist.

Nothing about the Ramsey crime fits anything about the others. Sexual predators don't leave ransom notes, and kidnappers for money don't molest and kill their means of payment. The staging was literally "overkill" with multiple thematic elements thrown in for good measure.

You still didn't answer my question, so obviously you have not read any linguistic analysis or extensive handwriting analysis. Are you afraid to?

The only thing you quote is that Patsy's and Burke's handwriting matched the ransom note. Not true. Burke's handwriting did not match. Furthermore, his linguistic capabilities at (almost) age 10 could not match those of the ransom note.

Before you come in here all high and mighty calling everyone "darlin'" with sarcastic contempt, you should get your facts straight. Then maybe someone would listen to you. We do not mind debating the case with someone who knows what they're talking about. We have a poster here who does not believe the Ramseys are guilty of JonBenet's death, and she is both knowledgeable and well-respected.

We welcome debate about the facts, but it's obvious that you are emotional about this case of murder. Let me tell you, darlin', it is not productive in the pursuit of justice.

 

<TABLE class=tborder id=post101808 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><TABLE cellSpacing=6 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap>Tricia <SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_101808", true); </SCRIPT>
aka Pebbles the Twister Sister
</TD><TD width="100%"> </TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap>Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The "Beehive State" It's true. Look it up
Posts: 4,265


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- / user info --></TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1><!-- message, attachments, sig --><!-- icon and title -->
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Jazz
I have followed this case from the beginning. I lived in the Buckhead area of Atlanta where the Ramsey's lived so it was pretty much all anyone talked about for years...even though they had moved out to Boulder.

I never was convinced that Patsy or John had anything to do with Jon Benet's death. I was more inclined to think they were covering up some possible involvement of their son Burke. It sounded reasonable to me that they would do that if her death was the result of an accident or...some juvenile sexual play.

However, I became interested in the theory of an intruder...more than one intruder. Given the wacko environment in Denver/Boulder I'm convinced that there was perhaps two intruders that stole away inside the Ramsey home and assaulted and murdered Jon Benet. There was no sign of forced entry. That was easy enough. The security system was not armed and....the perps simply walked out the front door without a trace.....

....except for the DNA the Boulder DA now has and continues to run every week. Somebody will turn up as a match eventually. And it won't be Patsy, John or Burke. These freaks are out there in numbers that would astound us daily.

I know mine is not a popular opinion on this forum...or webslueths...but you simply can't make this (Ramsey involvement) happen....when it didn't.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Jazz, believe it or not your opinion is welcomed here.

Anyone care to tackle Jazz's theory? I'm worn out.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I think WY has already replied to this very successfully, Tricia, and all I can say to Jazz is. Go back and hit the books, and study the case. I think you've fallen through the cracks and missed a lot of important information.

 

Remembering Reality

From Priscilla and Fleet White:

"After JonBenet Ramsey was killed in Boulder nearly twenty months ago, her parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, immediately hired prominent Democrat criminal defense attorneys with the law firm of Haddon, Morgan and Foreman. This firm and its partners have close professional, political and personal ties to prosecutors, the Denver and Boulder legal and judicial communities, state legislators, and high-ranking members of Colorado government, including Governor Roy Romer. The investigation of her death has since been characterized by confusion and delays. The district attorney and Ramsey defense attorneys started early in the investigation to condition the public to believe that these delays and the lack of a prosecution have resulted almost entirely from initial police bungling of the case and the non-cooperation of witnesses. This has continued to this day. Advising the district attorney since the early days of the investigation have been Denver metropolitan area district attorneys Bob Grant (Adams County), Bill Ritter (Denver County), Jim Peters (18th Judicial District), and Dave Thomas (1st Judicial District).

We knew JonBenet and her parents very well and have been closely involved in the investigation as witnesses. During the past year, we have also come to know and respect Mr. Thomas and were saddened and discouraged by his departure from the investigation. We share Mr. Thomas' view regarding the district attorney and his contention that overwhelming pressure brought to bear on the district attorney and police leadership from various quarters has thwarted the investigation and delayed justice in the case. While it is unlikely that the district attorney has been corrupted by Ramsey defense attorneys, it is certain that the district attorney and his prosecutors have been greatly influenced by their metro area district attorney advisers and by defense attorneys' chummy persuasiveness and threats of reprisals for anyone daring to jeopardize the civil rights of their victim clients. Indeed, the district attorney and the Ramsey attorneys have simultaneously rebuked the police for "focusing" their investigation on the Ramseys when in fact police were simply following evidence.
:bowdown:

 

Oh realllllllllly?

The murder remains an open case for Boulder County prosecutors. On Saturday, District Attorney Mary Lacy declined to discuss specifics about its investigation, but said the Ramseys had been helpful and praised Patsy Ramsey for her battle against cancer.

"They were 100 percent cooperative with our office," Lacy said.

http://www.legacy.com/atlanta/Obituaries.asp?Page=Lifestory&PersonId=18222889

Keenan + Karma = Next?
:did:
RR

 

Indeed. However, I AM looking at the whole picture and something is out of focus. I'm not drawing comparisons between JR and JL's cases...except to say that 'someone' entered both their homes in the middle of the night and killed them and no one heard a thing. Now, that is an established fact...at least in the Lunsford case.

In fact, Jessica's GM stated that she had locked the back door because her son had a key and the front door was always kept locked. So....how did Cooey get inside? Why didn't anyone hear him?...and their's is a mobile home, not a 6,000sq ft 3 story home with a basement. Why didn't they find evidence inside the home that pointed the search to him? It wasn't until they started trying to track down all the local sex offenders that they discovered his sister lived across the street from the Lunsfords.

BTW...my doors were all locked until I slipped a credit card between the door casing and the lock in the garage and got in without a problem. I just tried it again. I'm inside typing away on my PC...and Mr Jazz never heard a sound on the main floor of the house.

 

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

RR

 

I think WY has already replied to this very successfully, Tricia, and all I can say to Jazz is. Go back and hit the books, and study the case. I think you've fallen through the cracks and missed a lot of important information. [/QUOTE]

Really? Has the Boulder DA arrested someone this morning?

Look, ladies; I didn't come over here to get into a squabble with anyone. I've been reading here for a very long, long time before I registered. There are some very rational theories posted and some that are simply a "me too" position in a mutual admiration society.

I respect your opinions. I've read them all. Some have given me reason to go hmmmmmmm.

I truly don't have a suspect in mind as the intruder/murderer. But it's not a theory that's out of the realm of possibility. We know that it's happened more often than we want to think about. Especially those of us with children and grandchildren. We can be victimized at random any day of the week. And that is a sad fact.

 

Truthfully, I think we're all tired, Jazz, because it's so ridiculous to think of any intruder having the audacity to do all that was supposed to have been done with a sleeping family upstairs. Sorry if we do sound aggravated, we are!

Yes, a stranger can enter a home and remove a small child, and this has been done, but to do all the rest that came along with this case is just plain ludicrous. Write a three page ransom note, create an apology for a garrote, find their way through a messy basement that was more like a maze. I'm out of here!

 

River Rat!!!

"BLOWING A GASKET!!" LOL!!! Omigod that even made someone as humorless as myself cackle! Service with a smile, baby!

 

JAZZ: Look, ladies; I didn't come over here to get into a squabble with anyone.

Oh, really? Well, I have a few questions of my own.

Like, what have you been doing here all this time, with a total of 9 posts before Patsy's death? All on other topics? Yet NOW you choose to come out with your big defense of the Rams? And state you're NOT here to squabble, but jump in on a thread at a time where it's GUARANTEED?

It's not my forum, but I think you chose a very poor time to make your case. I don't see this as AN ACCIDENT. Nobody here knows you, that I've seen. You haven't bothered to actively participate in the forum community since you joined some time ago. But you jump right in NOW? To challenge us on a thread that's really not about debating theories?

I think you have pretty much come into Tricia's house and taken advantage of the situation to insult all of us with your fake hat. If she chooses to let you get away with it, well, it's her house.

But I'm telling you to your face, you're not fooling me.

 

"This murder though IMO simply doesn't fit that profile."

What profile? That's a myth. Even when there is one, it's not a lead-pipe cinch. The DC Snipers? Black, not white, as most serial killers. Timothy McVeigh? A white American, not an Islamic Arab.

"How many of the members right here on this forum have lost mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers to this awful disease?"

I have. He was one year younger than Patsy.

"Somebody will turn up as a match eventually. And it won't be Patsy, John or Burke."

Don't hold your breath.

'It's a sickening, sickening, sickening thing!' Doc Miller starts to shout. 'That little girl was murdered. And billions of dollars have been spent covering up her murder, unfortunately, by the press. You're as guilty as that woman if you print the goddam intruder theory. You're just taking more blood out of her. You'll come out of here with blood on your hands, Gaby!'

All right, Tom! You tell 'em!

"In dismissing the case, federal judge Julie Carnes said that the evidence presented in that civil case suggested an intruder was more likely to have committed the crime than Patsy. In the Ramsey camp, it was widely thought this meant they had been cleared."

Yes! The distinction is al too often left out!

"Where is the catharsis, I ask, if the case is unsolved? 'It's in the hate. Hate the Ramseys, you feel better. This was pretty close to a conspiracy.'"

You're pathetic, Bucky. Pathetic.

"Unfortunately the evidence suggests an innocent person tragically lost her child, was targeted by police and spent the last few years of her life trying to defend her name,"

What "evidence" is HE looking at?

I only ask one thing: one meeting with the DA. She gives me when and where, I'll give her who, how and what.

 

Ditto, darlin'. :coffeeup:

 

I just want to say to all of you tried and true FFJ members, you are awesome. I am privileged to be among you. Thank you for being part of this community and allowing me to join it.

Dunvegan, so good to see you again. I know what it cost you to create this forum, and thank you for doing it.

And so...the murdered child JonBenet will not see justice in this world in a court of law. That we know. And we all know why. No matter whom you believe committed this murder, there is no question that her parents deliberately obstructed the investigation from the first day, whatever spin they chose to excuse this fact, which resulted in an impossible case to prosecute EVER.

So a child killer got a pass...in this life.

It's done. It will all pass into crime mythology now. Like Lizzie Borden and Jack the Ripper.

Rest in peace, JonBenet.

 

Ah, excellent post, Punisher.

But if you're waiting for the DA to care, don't hold YOUR breath....

However...WE'RE LISTENING....

 

Here's a reminder to the ramsey hacks who are trolling the forums:

Greg McCrary of Quantico researched all the cases of a dead child in a home with a fake ransom note. He found, if I recall correctly, 18 such cases and every single one of these children was killed by a family member or someone close to the family.

I guess because Patsy Ramsey was wealthy and beautiful and poised makes her in a category all her own, incapable of the things the rest of the commoners might do.

 

Case Should Be Closed~

Patsy is no longer suffering physically on this earth. She was in a prision of her own making due to the actions and evidence that led us to believe that she was indeed involved in her daughter's murder/ accidental death.

She is now to be judged by God, as we all will be one day. God does punish those that sin and are not forgiven. Patsy had been given plently of time after her initial diagnosis to contemplate the hereafter. Eternity is for forever and ever~ a long sentence to serve.

We can only hope that someone close to the family will come forward with the truth and tell it.... so that the remaining family can unburden themselves of this and further suspicion and let this tawdry tale rest once and for all.

I think Steve Thomas said it best ..when he looked her in the eye and told her she was good for it! He also said that albeit a death bed confession this case would not be solved.

This case is as dead as Patsy. It may be talked about for years to come but I firmly believe heavenly justice served and it is OVER!

 

Ovarian Cancer and the Death of JonBenet

I wasn't going to post today because we're having a rainy weekend and I like to mellow out on rainy days - but now I am all jazzed up.

WHen Patsy was diagnosed with "Stage IV" ovarian cancer in 1993, it was the equivalence of a death sentence. I am going to write here believing that she had stage IV, or at least III C, because the section on her illness in Death of Innocence is the only part I found to be non-evasive, for the most part. She had to be severely ill to get into that trial program at the NIH in Bethesda.

I know this because in 1991 my mother was diagnosed with Stage IIIC ovarian cancer and participated in another study at Memorial Sloan Kettering in New York. My mother was diagnosed at the end of August and died in the beginning of November. All of the women in her study were considered to be terminally ill, and all of them died within two years. I know this because I kept track of the study, because ovarian cancer is strongly hereditary and I needed to know what to do. Several other women in my mother's family died of this disease as well. But this is not about us.

Patsy received the mega-chemo at NIH and it made her tumors go away. She was told by her doctors to go live her life. She kept in touch with her fellow experimentees from NIH and knew they were dying off. Within a few years they had all succumbed, except for her.

She was living her life under the huge stress of having had this terrible disease. She had had a radical hysterectomy, which in most cases also means the removal of part or even all of the vagina. This operation not only causes a woman to lose her ability to have children but can make sex difficult or impossible.

It was after Patsy got better that the sexualization of JonBenet started. I don't care what John and Patsy said about doctored photos, that child was turned into a sexual object at the age of 5. She wore suggestive costumes, had dyed hair and hair extensions, wore eyeliner, red lipstick, and blush, and did bumps and grinds and other suggestive moves on camera. I don't know that Patsy intentionally did this to abuse her - I think she was using JonBenet to express Patsy's terror about what had happened to Patsy. Patsy was living terrified and castrated, and expressed it through JonBenet.

(Sorry - just hit the wrong key on the keyboard)

I don't know whether there was a terrible accident or John was messing with the child, but I think that some sort of event involving only the family members caused the death of their child. There is no evidence of an intruder. The ransom note is in Patsy's handwriting using Patsy's pad and sharpie pen and is in her style of writing. The duct tape and cord are common household items. The stick on the garrotte was part of her paintbrush. Fibers from her and John's clothes from the day before were found on the duct tape.

I think the fibers got there when Patsy told John, over JonBenet's dead or dying body, that she wasn't going to jail over this, or she wasn't having her family broken up over this, because she only had a year or two left to live, and she had alreeady suffered enough. Hence the ransom note and nine years of evading the police, changing stories as instructed by lawyers, and suing those who dared to disagree with her.

I'm sorry she's dead, I'm sorry she suffered, I'm very sorry for Burke. I am so much more sorry for JonBenet. She would be 15 now.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1999/04/07/48hours/main42058.shtml

 

What kind of assault on other posters is allowed here? Are you allowed to attack them because they have a theory different from the 'click'. Sure. That's it, isn't it.

I witnessed something like that on a Lacy Peterson forum. Boy, it was their way or the highway.

I have not insulted one single poster here but...I can't say the same for a few of you.

This forum is not as active as the ones I post on regularly. That's why I haven't posted anything here until now. I have NOT abused the hospitality of anyones "house".

In fact; it's obvious to me now that Patsy Ramsey had finally died, you guys don't have a whole lot to talk about anymore, do you?...(since you all think she was the murderer. Heck, maybe she was. Who knows? You don't..and I don't)... unless, it's piddlin' mudane BS about John's next "young" wife etc.

Ya'll have fun. I hope we all live long enough to see the case solved and the responsible person(s) brought to justice. :booty:

 

I completely agree. In most cases like this one it is the parents... that is just a fact; however, in this case I find it unlikely. When you look at the details of the case it doesn't add up, nor does it make any sense. Do I think that the Ramseys know more than what they have been telling over the years. Yes, there is something there; however, I don't believe that secret involves killing their child. Of course, this is just my opinion. Only time will tell.