Backing Off The DNA

When this news of Karr first broke, the reported DNA was critical according to Wood, et al They all stated that a match would rule him in as the perp or rule him out.

Now I am listening to these people who seem to be backing off of the importance of that DNA - stating that it was contaminated and degraded. Haven't we known that from the get-go?

Now the twist seems to be placing Karr in Boulder on the 26th, or ever for that matter. My frustration is that these people seem to believe that Karr pointlessly flew into Denver, drove an hour into Boulder and aimlessly walked the streets until picking 755 15th Street?

For Karr to be the perp he would have HAD to have known JonBenet prior to that night. Otherwise, how would he have known where she lived? Therefore, he would have HAD to have been in Boulder and would have HAD to have come into contact with her at some point prior to December 26. This would have taken time and should be easy to track through records.

How could he have known JonBenet? This should have taken investigators five minutes to find out in a simple interview. Is this guy going to get railroaded?

It just isn't adding up for me at all and it's very frustrating.

 

The DNA isn't going to pan out, unless Karr sheds degraded DNA with only 10 markers. I think both sides realize this. Karr's lawyers asking for a court ordered DNA is to keep the RST from doing anything screwy with any samples the RST may have.

Next...Lacy and the RST are desperately trying to find SOME way to locate Karr in Boulder.

If Karr can't get even the basic information of this case correct in his ramblings, I doubt Karr could find the Ramsey's house so easily...if Karr ever went to Boulder since his father, brother, exwife and neighbor place Karr at home.

 

I think the difference is, you have a brain, and nothing to gain by continuing this farce. As long as the media can draw this out, they have another story to put up and get ratings on.

What I can't figure out is why someone hasn't scooped the story with the real documents, like that handwriting comparison - I guess someone must have seen it but they are afraid of JR and his pit bull lawyers.

Heymom

 

Freespirit, I'm hoping your U.S. law will not allow DA Lacey to railroad a sick individual like John Mark Karr. Lacey must know now, how foolish she looked on TV, with her four macho cowboys standing behind her, with their mouths closed, while she announced to the world that someone had been charged for the JonBenét crime. She didn't know enough about this young man. She didn't do her homework.

Here we are five years later, Freespirit, from when we first posted with another strange situation on hand. I feel there would be too much of a public outcry if Lacey tries to pinpoint this sick man as the intruder. Absolutely ridiculous!

 

And if he did know the Ramseys previously then there's the possibility of Patsy picking up on the sbtc signature he's been given credit for.

 

And that's another thing - everyone keeps wondering why Karr isn't *in* the photos - did they ever think he might be behind the camera?? I'm in hardly any of our family photos because I am TAKING THEM!! D'oh!

Heymom

 

Show Me:

Wonderful catch Show Me!

 

How right you are, HM. This is the first thing I thought of. Makes sense!

Before the "digital" appeared, my husband was never in them. Now it's always in my hands. It's mine!

 

The Ramseys (via their lawyers) orchestrated a vicious vendetta against Tom Miller (who did the fantastic side-by-side handwriting comparison) that included Tom getting prosecuted for a crime he didn't commit. Thank goodness the jury saw through the whole thing, and Tom was acquitted ... but that's what happens to people who stand up to the Ramsey juggernaut.

You can read all about it here at FFJ. Tom released a CD of all the court transcripts, and our wonderful FFJ poster, KoldKase, began posting summaries of the CD here. It is a tale of corruption and subversion of justice in Colorado that is unbelievable! The guy who SHOULD have been prosecuted was allowed to get off by giving a donation to the Colorado School of Journalism ... YES! ... the very same Colorado School of Journalism employing Michael Tracey!

The FFJ poster "Cookie" is Judith Phillips, Tom Miller's wife. Judith was a Ramsey friend who is a professional photographer and took wonderful photos of the Ramsey family before JonBenet's death.

You can read about the Ramsey campaign against Tom Miller on the following threads.

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7035&highlight=miller+defense

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7149&highlight=miller+defense

 

Like you and Elle, I thought of this also. We have many family Christmas photos that I'm not in because I was taking the pictures!!! If you'd tried to prove I was with them by using a photo, you couldn't. Ohmagosh. I hope I've got a 1996 Christmas photos with me in it! I might be the intruder!!! :yow:

 

Tom Miller attack

That's awful, Cherokee. But it's what I would expect. I'm almost surprised that Tom Miller didn't go missing...

This is one thread I hadn't read yet, so I will go and look.

The contribution to the Journalism Department...Did it get him a building? "The John Ramsey Truth is Not a Part of This Building?"

Heymom

 

Craig Silverman keeps ranting that "maybe" they got DNA from an envelope Karr sent Tracey and it matched. What envelope? I think he has it backwards, there were reports that Tracey sent him an envelope to a PO Box or general delivery mail pickup and then they had that under survelience, that's how they identified who Karr was, and he was riding his bicycle that he told Tracey about.

 

Another stupid newbie question:

Michael Helgoth - did someone have him executed and plant the false "evidence" so as to throw the trail completely off? It doesn't look like a suicide at all. This is how I see organized crime involved...removed from JR and PR themselves but orchestrated in their favor.

Heymom

 

It was a suicide without a doubt.

Don't believe the "Prime Suspects" crockumentary.

 

No, I wasn't suggesting that an accomplice had him killed - I'm thinking that some connection of the Ramsey's did it on their behalf, and planted evidence. Thus, to throw suspicion off in that direction - "he must have done it, he killed himself out of guilt."

Heymom

 

Today's Headlines

Karr's lawyers try to stop DNA tests

Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:46pm ET

By Dan Whitcomb

BOULDER, Colo. (Reuters) - Lawyers for JonBenet Ramsey murder suspect John Mark Karr asked a judge on Friday to stop prosecutors, at least for now, from testing DNA from the schoolteacher or forensic evidence in the decade-old case.
…
Seth Temin, a public defender who met with Karr for the first time on Friday, told a Boulder County district judge in court papers that any DNA samples from his client were not taken legally because his attorneys should have been consulted first.

"If such a sample has already been obtained it was not obtained pursuant to applicable law, the (state or U.S.) constitutions or by valid consent," Temlin wrote in the court papers. "Mr. Karr should be allowed to address the legality of the seizure of such an item prior to testing."
…
Prosecutors have not said if they have obtained DNA samples from Karr, arrested in Thailand last week. It was also unclear if they had tried to link him to foot and palm prints found near JonBenet's body.

As of Friday evening they had not responded to Temin's request and it was not clear when District Judge Roxanne Bailin would rule on the motion.

The lawyer also asked Bailin to make prosecutors turn over all of the evidence amassed so far in the case if they bring formal charges against Karr, including evidence presented to a grand jury convened in the case nearly a decade ago.

Bailin imposed a partial gag order in the case, which has been covered around the world since Karr's arrest, and granted a request by the defense that no-one be allowed to contact him without their permission.

© Reuters 2006. All Rights Reserved.

http://today.reuters.com/news/artic...TRUKOC_0_US-CRIME-JONBENET.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

 

Let me preface this by stating the obvious ... that I have only a very limited, layman's understanding of the workings of DNA matching, CODIS, and the like ...

... but, it really comes down to a numbers game. Right?

The MINIMUM number of marker matches required for a DNA "match" is thirteen markers. Anything less is simply INADEQUATE to be considered a match. And hence, even IF the bloomies DNA had 12 markers availible for matching, the case against Karr or anyone else could not POSSIBLY himge on the DNA evidence no matter how often LimpWood and the Ramsey DA Lacy scream it from the housetops! We have only 9 clear markers in the bloomies DNA sample.

For every missing marker, the odds that ANYONE matching those markers was the "donor" of the Bloomies DNA decreases TREMENDOUSLY!!! Therefore, if a 13 marker match yeilds a 5 million to one probability that two samples are from the same person, then a match of only 12 would cut the probability that they matched DRAMATICALLY ... to perhaps one million to one. Eleven markers would reduce the probability further ... to say 300,000 to one. Ten markers might reduce the probability that the two samples were from the same person to 50,000 to one. And matching the mere NINE markers from the bloomies DNA sample might reduce the probability that two samples were from the very same person to 10,000 to one.

... and let's not even discuss the fact that the degraded bloomies DNA has NOT been shown to be related to the crime!

I do NOT know what the ACTUAL odds are, but you see my point. Anyone ... ANYONE ... be it the Boulder DA or LimpWood or one of the pathetic TV talking heads ... ANYONE claiming that the case against Karr or ANYONE else hinges upon the nine markers in the bloomies DNA sample is either DELIBERATELY MISLEADING the public, or they are totally IGNORANT of the facts.

This kind of bullsmit MUST STOP!!! Use your email!


...YumYum

 

Hi, Elle!

Yum Yum I totally agree with you on the DNA. This is why I'm so frustrated. This is why, in my opinion, they are now backing off the DNA because it's not going to work out for them. Heck, even Karr predicts it's not going to match, but perhaps for another reason (because he really wasn't there).

My fear is that they will STILL try to pin the murder on him in spite of the DNA not matching. This is what I meant by the railroad. In the begining they all stated that the DNA was a "300 lb. gorilla" (Craig Silverman) and that this would tell the story. Well, now they are saying that even if it doesn't match that it may not mean that Karr didn't do it because. . . blah, blah, blah.

Wouldn't this hold true for the Ramsey's as well?

 

This is going to be a big dilemma for the RST, now that it actually came into play with Karr

They either have to s**t or get off the pot as they say. Either the DNA is the smoking gun or its not. Before Karr, they could say the DNA belonged to the killer and now if they back off, they have to face the possibility that the Ramseys are back in the picture

What to do? What to do?