What if:

I agree. The head being thrown into a solid object with great force, like a toilet, sink or bathtub would not split the head open, but damage the skull underneath. The sharp edge of a trophy would have opened the scalp.

This is what I've always had in my mind, with the rage Patsy may have been in, she had extra strength.

 

True, enough ....

Ploppy, normally, one would assume that, but given that it was Xmas and their home had a huge gross floor area, not to mention, that Patsy's list of "Things To Do" apparently was even longer than the ransom note, she could easily have been one floor up or down, completely involved in packing, gifting, upcoming pageant prep ... you name it.

Children always seem to know when their parents are "busy, busy, busy", & they have some time together to get into mischief.

I just have the feeling, that John may in fact have gone to bed earlier than the rest, Patsy was overwhelmed & preoccupied & the kids had a window of opportunity to either sneak out of bed, play with their toys, talk, tell stories, whatever ...... AND THEN SOMEHOW, something happened either with Patsy & Jonbenet, and/or Patsy, Jonbenet & Burke.

I do NOT believe that Patsy went to bed that night AT ALL! But how it all fits in, is anyone's guess.

BTW, is there any real substantion to the ALLEGED fact that Stine's babysitter, Nathan Inouye was actually in California. What I mean, did LE have proof (in any documented interviews, etc.) that he was in fact at home in California? Can someone provide the data?

Regards,
Mandarin

 

You're assuming the parents saw the head injury right away, when the police didn't know anything about the head blow until during the autopsy. It could be they found a lifeless child and discovered the sexual molestation while trying to find out what was wrong with her. She may have even been convulsing from the head concussion and they thought she was choking on something. When a child is choking, you don't wait for the paramedics!

Additionally, we know the vaginal bleeding was more than was found on the body since she had been wiped down and possibly had her Bloomies changed (by someone who didn't know what size to put on her...)

 

BluesStrat

Additionally, we know the vaginal bleeding was more than was found on the body since she had been wiped down and possibly had her Bloomies changed (by someone who didn't know what size to put on her...)

IMO the coverup was started by one person/maybe two and finished by two others/1 of the original and 1 other.

 

How do you arrive at this conclusion, Spade (?).

 

Elle_1

Spade: IMO the coverup was started by one person/maybe two and finished by two others/1 of the original and 1 other.

How do you arrive at this conclusion, Spade (?).

I don't know who killed JonBenet but I do have several scenarios that fit the evidence available to the public.

1. One person under the age of ten may have been present when JonBenet died and started the coverup.
2. Two persons under the age of ten may have been present when JonBenet died and started the coverup.
3. Two persons, one under the age of ten and one adult may have been present when JonBenet died and started the coverup. Under all my scenarios, two adults finished the pre-911 call coverup.

 

Couldn't have said it better

i don't chat posted this at WS. Hope they don't mind me bringing it here, but it is very well stated:

My opinion: JonBenet's death was not a crime. It was an accident. The person responsible for the accident was a 9-year child. In Colorado, 9-year children cannot be charged with a crime -- and in fact -- are protected from even BEING NAMED as being responsible.

I believe that every level of the justice system, including the last Grand Jury, came to understand this. Thus, the Grand Jury refused to charge anyone.

The only loose end -- and it is considerable -- the TRUTH was never told to the public because the State of Colorado has laws which protect the identity of underage children.

Can we accept on faith that our justice system worked? There is no "intruder/murderer" on the loose. Nobody got away with murder. The Ramsey's made an extreme sacrifice to take it on themselves to destroy evidence and cover-up that their son was responsible. But I truly believe that they realized he did not intend to harm his sister. They forgave him and did everything they could (legal or otherwise) to protect him. Because of that, they heaped much rage onto themselves. It is possible they did the best they knew to do at the time. Who knows what anyone would do in that situation?

To their credit, if this is what happened, they were successful. Burke was never publicly accused or labeled as a murderer. They were able to continue within their family unit (what was left of it), without being separated from each other.

It is difficult to imagine the pain they experienced in losing their daughter (as beloved and dotted on, as she was), coupled with the pain of knowing what could be facing their son, whom obviously they loved very much.

There are lots of people who don't like the Ramseys, out of jealousy or intolerance. Maybe it is human nature for us to "want our pound of flesh."

When you sort it out, maybe what the public is angry about is the simple fact that we, concerned citizens, didn't get the satisfaction of learning what happened. We think it is our right because a crime was committed. Isn't that the problem?

Well, I am starting to accept the fact that there really wasn't a crime. It was an accident, and the family chose to take whatever drastic means they could to keep the details private. Was it their right to keep it private? I don't know, but it is my opinion that is why the public is still upset about it.

This is my opinion of what happened, and I am nearing the point where I am willing to let this go. Are you?
__________________

Spade: I would have agreed with the last sentence until Keenan/Lacy thought that it was in HER best interests to prosecute a knowingly innocent man. Lots of people, including John and Burke Ramsey need to understand that now the only way out is the truth.

 

I vehemently disagree with this poster for the following reason ...

John and Patsy Ramsey KNOWINGLY accused innocent people of being the murderer of JonBenet.

If they were only trying to protect Burke, and preserve their "family unit," there was no reason for them to throw friends and acquaintances "under the bus."

I don't dislike the Ramseys out of "jealousy or intolerance," and I resent the implication that those two reasons are the only options for my disgust at their actions. Jealous of what? A faded beauty queen and her lizard-lipped consort? Intolerant of what? Two liars who viciously used every means at their disposal to destroy those who dared doubt their innocence?

I despise the Ramseys because they have persecuted innocent people in order to save themselves.

In addition, the Ramseys have actively waged a campaign of deception through false documentaries, one-sided interviews and biased reporting. At the Ramsey's behest, their celebrity lawyer, Lin Wood, has sued, and threatened to sue, anyone who dares mention the overwhelming evidence against the existance of an intruder.

The Ramseys, and their cronies in Colorado law and politics, have spun a web of deceit, corruption, and intimidation in order to snuff out any chance of a full and unbiased investigation.

I do not buy the theory that the GJ did not return an indictment merely because they were convinced Burke did it. One of the Grand Jurors has publicly stated they didn't believe PARENTS could do that to their child. There was no mention of Burke.

Yes, the Ramseys may have covered up an accident, I've said as much myself. But I will not be castigated by some poster's self-righteous sermonizing into believing the Ramseys are merely victims of circumstance.

The Ramseys have tried to destroy the lives of others in order to maintain their own facade of innocence. There is no forgiveness for those who will not repent.

 

What Cherokee said. Great post, Cherokee.

Furthermore, I disagree with this: To their credit, if this is what happened, they were successful. Burke was never publicly accused or labeled as a murderer.

They were not successful at keeping suspicion off Burke. Ramsey games have guaranteed him a permanent spot under that umbrella.

 

I think it would have been pretty easy to keep the police from questioning him if he was home.
Just tell him before to say he was asleep and didn't hear anything. Then when they ask, all he had to do was repeat that.
And sending him away would not keep the police from questioning him. How did they know the police would not show up there and ask him questions?

I think the one decent thing that happened to Burke that morning was that they did send him away and he didn't have to be in the house when JB's body was brought up.

::yes::
I agree with all your points.
(Although the house was big and Maze-like and I guess anyone could have thought someone was somewhere else in the house if they were quiet).

 

If this truly was the situation, Spade, and Burke Ramsey was the one to cause an accidental death, why make other people's lives a misery by accusing them of the murder, and putting them through sheer hell like Fleet and Priscilla white? The McReynolds and Linda Hoffman Pugh. The Ramseys were still lying and deceiving everyone with their cover up.

What I don't understand is how this staging was believed when the truth of the matter was an overkill when it came to the staging? The War and Peace ransom note, the garotte, the size 12 - 14 panties, and placing the body in the windowless room way down in this maze of a basement the Ramseys had.

How selfish of them, to not care about anyone else's life, other than their own.

If it was Burke, He is old enough to be questioned again. Why wait for another ten years like they waited for Martha Moxley's killer. I say deal with it now!

 

::yes::
What Cherokee said.
If they had quietly 'continued on with their family unit', I don't think people would have such negative feelings about them. But they didn't do that. They tried to throw everyone from their best friends to Santa Claus under the bus.
Even if they were totally innocent in the situation and truely thought that an intruder killed her, there is no excuse for trying to throw practically everyone you know (and some complete strangers) under the bus.

 

accident

The head blow definitely could have been accidental and I believe a child of nine could have inflicted such a blow BUT the strangling was not accidental. Even though she would have died from the head wound, she had not died before the garrotte was applied. There would have been no petechial hemorrhaging if she was already dead. So whoever wrapped the rope around her neck is guilty of more than covering up an accident.
I guess a child of nine would be able to make the garrotte but would they think of doing that? PR wrote the ransom note. I don't have any doubts about that.
If a child is not charged or even identified as the culprit under Colorado law then the staging was not necessary. The law would have protected the child and the parents certainly could have and may have contacted a lawyer before the cops were even called so they had access to that information.

If your child accidently hit your other child over the head and wasn't dead yet
I believe you would dial 9-1-1 and pray like heck. I know I would. I would not want the first child to suffer from the notoriety something like that may cause but I definitely wouldn't want them to suffer the guilt they would feel every minute of their life after that if I hadn't tried to get some help for the second child.

Even if the parents thought she was dead, a call for an ambulance would help the first child realize that it was an accident and everything possible was done to save the second child. If they began a cover-up of the whole thing, then the first child would think what they did wasn't just an accident because it needed covering up. In order to save PR's reputation, wouldn't the first child admit to the accident when he grew up? He couldn't be charged and it would make his mom look like a hero - taking the heat to save him from the media. He could claim he made the garrotte.

 

You know, we have child shootings, stabbings, etc. in this city and somehow, the ambulance or police always get called. There is rarely a cover-up and if it's attempted, it usually falls apart pretty quickly when the police get involved. Even if the parents know that one of the kids did injure the other one, accidently, the paramedics get the call. There aren't any ransom notes and hidden bodies, or any other weird staging.

That is one of the things that mystifies me greatly about the Ramseys. They just didn't act as if it was an accident, from the beginning. People who have killed their kids during violence, as in child abuse, do try to hide it, tell stories about it, but even they call the paramedics or go to the hospital. They *try* to seem like normal parents, even though they aren't.

Heymom

 

Ryan Ross

http://www.crimemagazine.com/solvingjbr-main.htm

Ryan Ross' article from 2003 is still the best researched writing on this case. He makes many of the same points as the above poster.

However, I agree with Cherokee that when the Rams started throwing innocents under the bus they lost all my empathy for the difficult situation that they were faced with.

 

If you look at the pictures of JBR bed.....the bedposts. I wonder if any impression were taken of that injury, so that a possible murder weapon could be matched to the injury???? JMO

 

I'm in complete agreement with Texan and Heymom that normal parents would have just called 911 right away.

SO WHY DIDN"T THEY?

The answer can only be "THEY COULD'T" for some reason.
There HAD to be something they couldn't explain at the hospital, and it either had to be evidence of sexual abuse, or strangulation marks on her neck.
There is no other evidence they couldn't explain as an "accident".

 

I am trying to imagine something like this happening between my two sons. Of course I can't possibly put myself into that situation but I'll try...One boy reaches out and pushes the other into a hard surface, whereupon the victim collapses. I hear the screaming of one boy, and the other is unconscious. I immediately call 911, while trying to calm the other one down and find out what happened. I do CPR, having an out-of-body experience while one part of me is panicking and screaming, the other part is calm and doing CPR. The ambulance and police arrive. We go to the hospital. The boy who pushed is freaking out, crying, sick, etc. I ask questions, assure him we're not angry. The victim then dies. The one who pushed is deeply damaged and probably never recovers fully from this, even with lots of psychological counseling. In fact, if my older one hurt his little brother at all, he'd probably try suicide. I know he would. He has a guilty conscience and could not live with himself.

I just can't imagine NOT calling an ambulance, even if it meant that one of my sons would need police intervention. I cannot imagine Burke causing this and not being freaked out about what happened. What did they do, send him to bed after he clobbered JonBenet? Yeah, like that would work!

I think there is something wrong when parents go through this kind of charade and never act normal. Something we are missing and probably will never find out.

Heymom

 

You're wasting your time trying to put yourself in their place, Heymom. In order to do that, you would have to be the Queen of the party, married to the King of Boulder...LOL!

Seriously, one of the reasons BDI people point to, is that John had already lost his daughter Beth, now lost JonBenet, and he wasn't about to allow the fate of his (now) youngest child Burke to fall into anyone else's hands. In John's mind, that may have amounted to losing THREE children.

Notice how their actions over the past 10 years have virtually proven that theory to be correct.

 

I was going to amend my previous post to say that if such a thing happened, I would have to have a lot of intervention, and I wouldn't care if they put me in jail anyway, because life would be pretty much over from that point on. I am a Christian but it would be very difficult to forgive myself and believe I was forgiven. I wouldn't be living any kind of normal life and shaking my finger in front of detectives who were asking me questions, "You're going down the wrong road Buddy!"

Heymom