Burke Ramsey... the missing link

I probably would have made the bed. Just reflex. :abnormal: Did Fleet ever serve in the military? It's reflex for veterans too.

Heymom

 

only makes sense for staging..

So they had Burke's voice redacted/magnetically removed to show he was in bed when they called 911.

What parent would send their child back to bed when his sister is missing?? Wouldn't you think they'd all tear through the house looking for her...under beds, etc?

Why did they want everyone to think Burke was in bed the whole time? Does Fleet White know better? Did Burke tell him?

Why was his voice taken off the recording? Most would expect him to be awake with the fuss going on..

Why make believe you are sleeping?

 

The very first thing my husband and I would do would be to wake up the other child and see if he knew anything, had heard or seen anything. AS IF you could talk the other child into going back to bed!!!!

I continue to state, over and over, that at no point did the Ramseys act like normal parents would in any of the situations they were in. AT NO POINT.

Heymom

 

Burks Voice On Tape

"However, when Patsy Ramsey called 911 at 5:51 a.m., Dec. 26, 1996, she failed to hang the phone up immediately.

The tape of that call had been sent to a California sound laboratory for enhancement. Patsy Ramsey is said to be heard saying, "Help me, Jesus, help me, Jesus." Then she fumbled with the phone, trying to hang it up.

Prior to the phone being hung up, a voice in the background, described as Burke Ramsey's, is said to be heard, followed by John Ramsey saying, "We weren't speaking to you."

Burke Ramsey: "But what did you find?"
_____________________________________________________________

If this is true, I think it's significant that Burke used the word "FIND".It seems more logical that if he walked into the kitchen to witness hysteria and screaming chaos he would have asked something like "what happened" or "What's going on, or "what's the matter". The use of the word "FIND" implies he knew something or someone had been discovered.

 

But what makes the Ramsey case intricate in that respect: the forensic facts (fibers fromPatsy's and John's clothing found in incriminating locations), and other circumstantial evidence (the ransom note which was obviously written by Patsy, the Ramseys' total unwillingness to cooperate with the police, their many lies and revealing statements) point to their involvement in the cover-up of the crime, but don't necessarily point to which of the three Ramseys committed the crime.

Could Burke have been involved? Maybe he fooled around with his little sister, she threatened to tell their parents, he panicked and hit her over the head, and the parents then covered up to save him?
Scenarios like that have been outlined on the JB forums.
It don't think Burke was involved, but still the question to ask is: judging from the circumstantial evidence (and that's all we have in the Ramsey case, for there were neither eye-witnesses nor a confession): can such a scenario be really ruled out?

So to modify your question, Easywriter: by what alleged fact or facts is it excluded that Burke is responsible for the death of JonBenet?

 

Isn't it the truth?

 

Tylin, So True ...

You're absolutely right ... I CANNOT remember a Xmas when even I, as a youngster would go to bed early after receiving a multitude of toys and gifts, especially if I had to spend the day visiting with other adults and their children.

New toys are filled with excitement and kids just have to talk about, display and fool around with their new gadgets on that day, of all days.

Even if the Rams were planning a trip to Charlevoix, as we know Patsy had lots to do & contrary to John's version, I believe Patsy and the kids were still up for quite a while after they got home. Whether John really took a melatonin & went STRAIGHT to bed though, is debatable. He may have taken a melatonin, but I doubt he went to bed within a 1/2 hour or so after arriving home.

Wasn't he allegedly downstairs in the "train room" helping Burke with one of his new toy models?

Regards,
Mandarin

 

But, rashomon, what would Burke have hit JB over the head with that wouldn't have cut her scalp? The flashlight, I would think, would have definitely caused a cut and bleeding.

 

I've never figured out what any one would have hit her head with that wouldn't cause a lot of bleeding and yet crack her skull.

 

I think the Maglite was the weapon used on JonBenet's skull, and that the rubber rim kept the skin from breaking.

 

Unless she was pushed into or fell into something with a smooth yet hard surface, like a tub, sink, or toilet. This is what Drs. Baden and Wecht believe. If that was the case, then it was probably more likely that Patsy was the one involved.

 

Dr. Werner Spitz performed tests in which he struck human skulls with a flashlight identical to the Rs' Maglite. (I saw this program on tv. It may have been on Discovery.) Spitz demonstrated that the breaks in the test skulls matched the ones on JonBenet's skull. He said he was convinced it was the Maglite that broke her skull. He said the indentation on the skull wasn't only close to matching the end of the Maglite, but that it matched "perfectly." (I used quotation marks, because he used that word.)

 

Thanks, Tril.

 

Fair question.
Some of the theories of Burke’s alleged involvement bring in
parties other than the Ramseys. There was no around the clock
eyewitness to say this is not true, but there is no evidence to
say it is true. That’s my point. If these “extras†can be ruled
out by lack of supporting evidence, why is not the same rationale
applied to Burke? True, it is known and undisputed that Burke was
in the house, but there is no more evidence that he was in the
same room during the creating of the head trauma any more than
there is evidence of other parties in the house.

What is there to indicate the Burke knew anything until the next
day? If it is true, that Burke was heard on the tape saying,
“What did you find?â€, this goes to ignorance of circumstance. The
Ramseys belatedly admitted that Burke was awake that morning.
This part of the evidence is consistent with the idea of Burke
not being involved. Also, although not proof in itself, the
circumstance of that evening goes more toward a confrontation
between Patsy and JonBenet than any other likelihood.

The theory that the staging was to protect Burke has a lot of
problems. Protect him from what? Prosecution that wasn’t going to
happen? To keep others from knowing that he killed his sister -
and just turn this temper loose on some other unsuspecting
person? If this is the case, then Burke’s protection consisted of
John and Patsy not doing anything to deal with his homicidal
problem. Add to this the idea of committing a felony by tampering
with evidence could land them in jail. How was this to protect
and help Burke? It just won’t wash.

I do not know of a single thing that Burke said or did that makes
him a suspect. I do not know of simple scrap of evidence that
connects him to the crime in any way. I see absolutely nothing to
indicate that Burke needed protection, or that he got any. What I
do see is Patsy Ramsey in need of avoiding the truth about the
head trauma. What I do see is inept staging to project the idea
of kidnaping, ransom, sexual assault and murder by strangulation
to draw attention away from the head trauma as primary. Given
that she went to all this effort with so little skill tells of
much desperation seeking protection from the consequence of
truth. Her connection to the crime is clear; not so with Burke.
To assume the staging was to protect Burke and not self, has not
a single thing to support the notion. Since there is not a single
thing to connect Burke to the crime and everything connecting
Patsy, how can he not be ruled out when there is absolutely
nothing to rule him in?

Possibility is the starting point, not the end. Every day we all
deal with and make decisions on probability. If I sleep through
the night and awake to find water dripping from tree leaves and
water running down the street, I assume it rained while I was
asleep. On the other hand, it is possible that it didn’t rain at
all; that a thousand fire-fighting aerial tankers flew over and
dropped the water. I rule out this possibility on lack of
evidence and improbability. I view Burkes situation in the same
light.

 

There are so many things wrong with this on so many levels, it
hard to find a place to start. 1. A viable replication would
necessarily include a scalp membrane to test for laceration, or
lack thereof. 2. The skull would have to be the size, shape and
density of JonBenet’s. 3. I know of no information that provides
the depth and width of any indentation. 4. The photo of the scalp
shows a wide area of damage in conjunction with a radiation
pattern of cracks. The wide area of damage is elongated and not
even close to the form of a flashlight head. Indeed, if a
“matchâ€, it rules it out - unless the skull is soft clay. 5.
Given the nature of energy distribution evidenced in the
fracture, “matched perfectly†is evidence of “imperfect†testing
conditions. 6. Basic physics indicate extreme force distributed
over a wide area to enable skull fracture without scalp
laceration. A narrow headed flashlight with ridge protrusions? No
way. 7.There is no evidence that the flashlight was even part of
the crime scene.

The skull fracture came about by contact with something very
large, very heavy, flat, or almost flat, and smooth. Something
wielded may be possible, but highly unlikely.

 

I just watched a PBS program (History Detectives) the other day ... and what I saw might question Spitz's findings to a small degree.

... the show attempted to authenticate an archialogical find ... a spearhead embedded in a 5,000 year old bison skull. The concern was that it might be a fake ... that the spearhead had recently been driven into an ancient skull. The forensics people pointed out that LIVING bone tissue has a high moisture content, and even some elastic qualities. Dryed bone, on the other hand has no such elasticity, and would be likely to shatter or splinter to some degree if a spearhead had been driven into a dryed skull. Their findings proved that the spearhead had been embedded when the bison was alive.

I think of the "live" versus dried skull a bit like this. Take an ax to a live tree. Then do the same to a well dried log. The moist nature of the live tree yeilds a totally different type of cut (or chip) than that of an ax blow to a long dead log.

I have to assume that the same would be true in skull experiments similar to Spitz's efforts. Of course, he may well have taken that elasticity and other factors into account ... or even used recently dead skulls.

I just thought that it was interesting, and would likely be an issue in a courtroom if this case ever went to trial.


...YumYum

 

EasyWriter ...

Your hat suits you .... you write so articulately.

I'm curious ... when you say something heavy, flat/almost flat/ & smooth are you thinking of a procelain tub, vanity, tiled wall??? For example, do your thoughts sway toward her being slammed against something?

That may not be what you're saying, but I've always thought that something took place in Jonbenet's bathroom that night with her Mom. It's documented that Patsy indicated in her interviews that she did not use her own bathroom on the 26th, was because it was broken .... seems she would have been using Jonbenet's bathroom then.

Oh well, your posts are very well thought out & I like your detailed explanation as to why a maglite could not have made the fracture.

Regards,
Mandarin

 

Easy .... p.s.

You mention that "belatedly" the Rams admitted that Burke was awake & if I recall, this came a couple of years after the fact - well, a VERY long time after they had denied it.

I think they said they originallly THOUGHT he was asleep, but Burke told them he was only PRETENDING to be asleep.

Hmmmm ..... I just don't understand why the Rams, including Burke, continuously stated that he was asleep & then suddenly, they come forth & say "Well, yes, he was awake after all".

I just can't get my head around them swiftly transporting him out of the house, with nary a word of explanation. And I just can't understand why Burke (allegedly) did not ask any questions of his parents and or the Whites.

I also don't understand why they continue to deny that Burke in fact, did own hi-tech shoes/boots.

I also don't know why he was almost totally neglected at the initial bereavement service. The pictures show him looking hagard and alone.

So for me Easy, although I do NOT think it was Burke that struck her, I find it entirely possible that he may play a large part in the puzzle, but what that is I'm like everyone else .... baffled.

The GJ coming to a screeching halt & the reverberating silence thereafter made me wonder what, if any, his culpability might have been.

Regards,
Mandarin

 

Good points, YY. I have an idea that Dr. Spitz, who has more than 50 years of experience in pathology, and is a world-renowned expert in the field, considered the condition of the bone in his experiments and recognized the importance of it. Even I, as a fossil preparator, can (and often very easily) distinguish between damage done to bone prior to, or soon after, death and damage done after the bone had dried out. I don't view Dr. Spitz as someone who would disregard the condition of the bone he was testing, when it would be such an important factor.

Sounds like a fascinating program you watched. I love shows like that.

 

I can answer the part about the Hi-Tec boots. If Burke had a pair, then the mystery footprint near JBR's body may well be his, and can't be attributed to an intruder.

I think the adult Ramseys lied about many things, and decided that instead of trying to keep track of everything, they'd just say that for sure, JonBenet was asleep when they got home, and that Burke had not woken up all night. Why? I don't know. Maybe they thought that if they changed the story AT ALL, it would all unravel. You know how it's thought that liars change their story all the time. Well, it still happened, but with the lawyers help, they still got away with the lies.

As for the rest, to my mind, getting Burke out of the house is just to protect him when the body is found. They may have been trying to keep him from seeing his little sister dead. Or maybe they were afraid of what he would say if he saw her dead. Who knows what he told Fleet White? Maybe we will find out someday.

Heymom