The Significance Of The Big Bloomies...

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Ploppy_Slopper, Aug 24, 2006.

  1. YumYum012

    YumYum012 Member

    Speaking of timelines ... what about the Ramsey's post Christmas planned timeline. Was JonBenet scheduled to "perform" in Charlevoix? What about performing on the Big Red Boat trip? I'd almost bet BobC's left nut that Patsy would have scheduled "a few Sundays" over that period to put herself on display.

    ... I wonder what outfits Patsy had planned for these events. Something seasonally seductive, I'm sure. A sexy little elf, perhaps? Maybe a scantily clad New Years child? And no doubt a swinsuit contest was part of the plan ... maybe a tasteful "Wicked Weasel" (Google it).

    Is there anything on the evidence list regarding the clothing/costumes that Patsy had packed for the Charlevoix trip ... or had prepared for the Boat trip? I'd REALLY like to see that stuff.

    Patsy's greatest regret? That Botox wasn't around in JonBenet's heyday so that she could sculpt JonBenet's features more to her liking. That bit.ch was SICK!!!


    ...YumYum
     
  2. Cranberry

    Cranberry Member

    January 5, 1997 was a pending Little Miss Hawaiian Tropic competition, but JonBenet was murdered 11 days prior.
     
  3. heymom

    heymom Member

    It depends on what the cut-off date was in Colorado at that time. Sometimes it's August 1st - IOW, the child must be x age (in this case, 6 years old) by August 1st to be enrolled in x grade. JonBenet would not have made that cut-off date. Thus, she would have been one of the oldest kids in her K class.

    Heymom

    edit: I googled and found the website of the Boulder Valley School District. On that site, it states that the child must be 5 by Sept. 30 for K, or 6 by Sept. 30 for 1st grade. JonBenet was in a charter school at the time, which I don't think exists any longer, so I'm not 100% certain that they had the same cut-off date, but it's likely they did use the same date. That means that either she was considered immature for enrollment in the age-correct class, or her parents asked to have her held back, or that they didn't put her in K when she was 5, but decided to wait until she was 6. Do any of the books say anything about that?
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2006
  4. Mandarin

    Mandarin Member

    Yum, Yum ...

    Patsy had a yellow bathing suit & other costume items for the upcoming pageant (The Hawaiin One - Jan 5th) .... laid out, I believe on the bed in JAR's room. I think John Ramsey even mentions this in their book.

    The pageant was to be held, the very next day after their whirlwind travel itinerary that was to end after the Disney Red Boat Cruise.

    So, you can see that, on Xmas night it was important enough for Patsy to lay that stuff out, even though one surmizes that it was not something that would be taken on the trip.

    Patsy must have been going nuts, trying to pack both SUMMER and WINTER wear, for herself, John and the children, not to mention carting gifts and whatever else was necessary for their kwiky visit with John's other kids.

    BTW, I also read, in the past (don't ask me where though) that John was also planning to meet up with Pasta Jay somewhere in Michigan when they arrived in Charlevoix. It might have even been in the Ramsey's book.

    Regards,
    Mandarin
     
  5. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    A picture of John Andrew's bedroom with the clothing that was being packed for the Big Red Boat trip shows rather an odd set of items. Mostly, what I see are items that would have belonged to JonBenet, but nothing that obviously belonged to Burke or Patsy or John Ramsey. Take a look.

    [​IMG]

    It looks as if there is a bathing suit there, but it is pink, not yellow.
     
  6. Elle

    Elle Member

    I find it hard to make out just exactly what those items are, WN (?).
     
  7. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    Two of the items, at least, look like JonBenet's clothing. At the foot of the bed on the left there is the jacket she wore on December 22nd, 1996 at the Southwest Plaza Mall performance:

    [​IMG]

    But more curiously, on the right up near the pillow and on top of the black suitcase, it looks as if a checked black and white dress JonBenet wore when she was much smaller and younger is being packed. In an innocent scenario, this makes no sense, although in one of guilt, it could be a psychological clue of a parent who has or is about to say goodbye one last time to the tangible things like clothing that represented good memories which are about to be turned on their ear when everything falls apart.

    [​IMG]

    Or maybe it means nothing.
     
  8. Mandarin

    Mandarin Member

    Why Nut et al

    The bathing suit/costume attire for the Hawaiin Tropic pageant was yellow ... John and or others may have mistated where it was actually laid out in JAR's room, but definitely it has been stated that the outfit was yellow and was in JAR's room.

    Now, with such a big house, it's possible that it was laid out on a chair in JAR's room, or possibly even in Melinda's room ... but I specifically remember that it was YELLOW.

    And that would make a lot of sense to me, because you know the Tropical theme, is very yellow, orange, oriened etc. AND I've always thought that Patsy was trying her darndest to do a "run through" with Jonbenet that night .... hence the pineapple may have been some sort of enticement if she cooperated.

    When Patsy conveniently mentioned that she MAY have colored her own hair that hectic afternoon (before going to the White's) .... I say, BALONEY! The one person's roots she would be doing at the last minute would be Jonbenet's .... I don't think she would want to be doing that in the kwiky short visit to Charlevoix with the stepkids. And I certainly do not think she would be doing it in the small bathrooms they provide on Cruise ships.

    How else was she going to have enough time to get Jonbenet prepped for the Hawaiin Tropic pageant, on their return with less than 24 hours to do so & having jet lag, cranky kids, etc.

    Regards,
    Mandarin
     
  9. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Thanks Cranberry, heymom and Tril, for the info.

    See...I figured the cutoff date was in the fall. JonBenet's birthday was Aug. 6, 1990. She should have been in the first grade.

    No, I haven't seen anything said about this in the books. And that's odd as well. There is something in this. Perhaps Patsy's illness set her back emotionally and with development. But how rare is it for a child to be held back in school before she's even in first grade? Did Patsy just not put her in school when she was supposed to be there for kindergarten?

    Oh. We need to ask Cookie about this. Anyone know how to get in touch with Cookie?
     
  10. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Well, y'all are on to the packing, but I'm still stuck on the 12/14 Bloomies and the pink pajama bottoms and where they went that night. Patsy said JonBenet wore them Christmas Eve. But Patsy couldn't "find" them when she was looking to put them on JonBenet as she slept in her bed while Patsy was undressing and redressing her. So Patsy looked in the bathroom drawers and found the longjohns.

    But Patsy said the pink pjs were kept UNDER THE PILLOW. And there is the pink top, right on the bed.

    Where'd the pink bottoms go?

    Oh, another thing: Patsy also said "WE" decided not to change JonBenet's top while she was lying in her bed. She used the plural pronoun in the '98 LE interview with Haney. Why would she do that if she was the getting JonBenet ready for bed alone?

    And so, what happened to those pink bottoms? I ask because I am trying to find out how those huge Bloomies got on JonBenet. She was found murdered in them, with a couple of blood spots NOT matching any blood dried on her corresponding skin areas. How did that happen? If the undies were so big, how would there BE corresponding skin areas? Did Meyers pull them up on JonBenet to see if the areas that were supposed to match did? Because I can't understand how he wouldn't have noticed that the undies were HUGE, and therefore would have NO matching areas. If a child's bottom is, oh, I don't know, but to make the point, let's say 3 iinches of a double panel of clothe in the crotch area, which when pulled to her waist would fit nicely, how do you "match" a crotch panel of undies that have a 6 inch panel and a waist that goes up under her arm pits? I don't see how that works? So that makes me wonder what the heck Meyers was talking about in his autopsy.

    And another thing that makes me want to puke. When asked in his Wolf deposition about whether he ever saw an autopsy picture of JonBenet in the undies found on her, Thomas said he was not aware that any such picture existed. Thomas saw all the autopsy pictures. The coroner didn't take the damn picture. Can you believe it? LE would have KNOWN IMMEDIATELY THIS IS CRITICAL and then there would either be answers to these questions because the forensics team would have gone in and made sure they found all JonBenet's clothes and undies and that would have been carefully documented and photographed, or Patsy Ramsey would have had to answer those questions in April or after she was arrested earlier. Because intruders don't take out dirty laundry, do they?

    Haney asked Patsy if the pants on the floor of JonBenet's room with the soiled panties in them were the ones JonBenet wore that day, outside, riding her bike? Patsy just can't remember. But think about this: obviously, LE didn't know WHAT JonBenet was wearing that afternoon, while riding her bicycle and playing with other neighboring kids on Dec. 25th, or Haney wouldn't have asked. If those pants in the floor with the undies still in them were worn by JonBenet that day, that means JonBenet DID change underwear before going to the Whites that night. Since Patsy argued with JonBenet about what top to wear, Patsy must have been in the room helping her get dressed. So...why the too large Bloomies chosen? Or were they only put on later after something else happened to the undies JonBenet did wear to the Whites'? Or what are other possibilities? Did they argue about the 12/14 Bloomies?

    Haney asked Patsy if JonBenet had wet those pink pj bottoms that she wore on Christmas Eve, as well. Patsy said she didn't think so, because JonBenet is wearing them on Christmas morning in the photos they have of her opening presents. But Haney is ASKING about this. So LE apparently didn't HAVE them, or didn't find them. WHERE DID THEY GO?

    See, these are the questions that should have been asked and answered within days of the murder. This is why parents DO COOPERATE WITH LE when they want their child's killer found, not a year and a half later when Patsy just can't remember, la di da.

    So we have the pink pj bottoms missing. What JonBenet wore that afternoon to play in is either the pants and panties on the floor, which means JonBenet put on other underwear to wear to the Whites', or those pants are not accounted for as well, and since Patsy can't remember when her child washed, changed, what she took off or put on, where anything was...and since LE either never figured out where these clothes were or was bluffing Patsy...guess we'll never know the answer to this.

    Which is bad. Because it's critical. Absolutely essential information to get to the truth. Eliminate the questions or find the missing pieces. But leaving huge gaps in the evidence only helps the killer.

    I suspect the killer knew/knows that, as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2006
  11. Mandarin

    Mandarin Member

    koldkase ....

     
  12. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    No, it was a good try, Mandarin, and you never know when something will click when discussing this stuff, so thanks for it.

    At the bottom of my post, you can see two links to a couple of sticky threads at the top of the main JB forum page, threads about the Bloomies. We discuss a lot about what JonBenet wore and what Patsy and John told LE in various interviews and in their book, what the detectives and lawyers say, etc.

    The Ramseys said a lot of things, as per usual, but nothing that answers many questions, and always raises more. That's the "intruder" style that I'm becoming acutely aware of at this point in my study of this case. Always obscuring, always confusing, always trying to pull the focus to the right hand so you won't see what the left hand is doing....
     
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