"Lake" - former Justice Watch poster

John Douglas

Douglas is as phony as a three-dollar bill, and so is his little dog "Lake" Olshaker.

BTW, Olshaker is probably "Rainsong", too. Same style, same dopey theories. :yuck:

 

Photograph 101

From Yum-Yum's deleted post:
***************
"Lake's theory was great ... as long as you IGNORE the available evidence. Stuff like beaver hair, sweater fibers, Bloomies, cobwebs, missing evidence of tracks to/from the home and debris in the home, the ransom note handwriting, Ramsey behavior (like Burke's voice on the 911 tape, failure to protect Burke, etc). It goes on and on."
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1. Beaver hair, sweater fibers, Bloomies, cobwebs, the ransom note handwriting, and Ramsey behavior is all consistant with a cover-up by John and Patsy. Nothing to do with an "under the age of criminal culpability" killer or killers.

2. "missing evidence of tracks to/from the home and debris in the home" is simply not true.

From John Ramsey ABK's 1998 interview with Lou Smit ABK:

23 LOU SMIT: (Handing next sheet of
24 photographs).
25 JOHN RAMSEY:
0779
1 BRYAN MORGAN: If I understand it,
2 all of these were taken in the early stages of
3 the kidnapping scenes, which means early in the
4 morning.
5 LOU SMIT: Yes.
6 JOHN RAMSEY: These tracks in the
7 snow here, might have been bicycle tracks.
8 LOU SMIT: That's in photograph
9 101?10 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. It wasn't
11 unusual for him to ride through the yard.
12 LOU SMIT: Did you say he had a
13 bicycle that Christmas?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: I know we got -- I
15 got a bicycle. I think that's what it was. I
16 gave myself a bicycle.
17 LOU SMIT: That Christmas?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, Patsy got a
19 bicycle, I got a bicycle, JonBenet got a
20 bicycle. Burke already had one, I am pretty
21 sure. I don't know what it is, I guess
22 (INAUDIBLE).

11 LOU SMIT: Now we are going to go
12 kind of into later on when the photographs were
13 taken later on the next day. And that
14 photograph 204, what is that a photograph of?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, that's the
16 same screen door going out on to the patio.
17 LOU SMIT: That's the south door?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
19 LOU SMIT: Again that's the damage?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. I think that
21 was -- that was there. Well, the door was
22 locked at least in the picture, the inside door,
23 but it seems to me I remember it was split,
24 but --
25 LOU SMIT: Okay. So that's damage
0785
1 to the door, that's the south door, it could
2 have been --
3 JOHN RAMSEY: It was split at
4 least, there was some damage, yes. There was
5 bicycle tread tires, that's what they look like,
6 mountain bike tire.

There are many additional references to the bicycle but no others to the bicycle tracks. At least that I can find.

During my 1999 interview with Lou Smit ABK I asked him if he thought the "intruder" could be a juvenile? He responded: "Absolutely!"

I followed up by asking him if the intruder could be Doug Stine? He responed: "Doug Stine should be looked at very closely."

As I recall, Lake's theory is founded on a juvenile intruder who was a friend of Burke's.

 

Olshaker is gay? For Douglas? Okay, then. Whatever floats his boat.

 

More on the Bicycle

From the Evidence list:
records bike registration 1 12 MTE

From Patsy Ramsey ABK's 1997 interview:

PR: Uh, well, the kids came up and woke us up and John went down, he went to get everything ready, you know, get the lights on, get the music on, you know. . .
TT: Um hum.
PR: . . .uh, I think he, he said he had, he brought he, Santa Claus Brought me a bicycle so he had to go get that under the tree. . .

In a later interview John is asked what happened to JonBenet and Patsy's bikes but I can't lay my hands on the transcript. I think it is safe to say that his answer was vague.

 

John said JonBenet's bike was given away, to a church, I'm thinking. Maybe for one of those programs that gives gifts to kids?

 

I recall Lake posting now and then on Websleuths way back when Murphy owned it (I think it was Webbsleuths then), but I don't recall the details of his theory. Was it anything like BlueCrab's?

I don't completely discount the possibility that another juvenile besides Burke (and JonBenet, of course) was there that night. If true and the other juvenile was the Stine boy, he could have loaded his bicycle into the Rs' vehicle when the Rs' stopped at the Stines' to deliver the gift basket, and then ridden the bike home after JonBenet died - which could account for the bicycle tracks that were seen. If the Stine boy was there, it might explain why the Stines and Ramseys became bosom buddies after JonBenet died.

The main problem I have with regards to another juvenile being in the house that night is that there's no evidence suggesting that anyone other than JonBenet and Burke sat at the table where the pineapple bowl was found. (I realize that some people don't believe that just because Burke's fingerprints were found on the bowl that he was at the table... or that even though Patsy said Burke liked iced tea that he would make himself a glass of it by just dipping a tea bag into the water. My kids and I do that all the time, much to my British aunt's horror, who thinks iced tea is a travesty in itself, but dipping a tea bag into cold water to make it is an abomination.)

 

Tril

Tril posted: "I don't completely discount the possibility that another juvenile besides Burke (and JonBenet, of course) was there that night. If true and the other juvenile was the Stine boy, he could have loaded his bicycle into the Rs' vehicle when the Rs' stopped at the Stines' to deliver the gift basket, and then ridden the bike home after JonBenet died - which could account for the bicycle tracks that were seen. If the Stine boy was there, it might explain why the Stines and Ramseys became bosom buddies after JonBenet died.

The main problem I have with regards to another juvenile being in the house that night is that there's no evidence suggesting that anyone other than JonBenet and Burke sat at the table where the pineapple bowl was found. (I realize that some people don't believe that just because Burke's fingerprints were found on the bowl that he was at the table... or that even though Patsy said Burke liked iced tea that he would make himself a glass of it by just dipping a tea bag into the water. My kids and I do that all the time, much to my British aunt's horror, who thinks iced tea is a travesty in itself, but dipping a tea bag into cold water to make it is an abomination."

Tril-I feel exactly the same way. I have three basic theories of how this tragedy could have happened. All of them fit my knowledge of the evidence and all of them involve a non-prosecutable juvenile participant.

 

I don't believe that the Ramseys and the Stines WEREN'T good friends before the murder. John and Patsy were in New York with the Stines for a few days early in December, between the 3rd/4th and the 7th, as far as I've been able to tell. JonBenet was in the Christmas Parade on the 6th and was staying with her grandparents. Where was Burke? Did any other children come around? Spend the night? I have never heard that said.

But who goes cross country to New York for a few days with people who are not good friends?

I think John LIED in his deposition stating they weren't friends with the Stines before the murders. Patsy was on the same ball team as Susan, after all. Maybe they want to parse words about "friend," but I think they socialized rather closely. The Stines were also at the Dec. 23rd Christmas party with their son, weren't they?

The question is, why would they want to deny that relationship?

In DOI, the Ramseys stated that they ended up at the Stine's home because of the Pasta Jay arrest when he attacked a couple of men who he thought were the press, but they weren't. Patsy went to the police station to defend Jay (but NEVER to witness for her own murdered child, interestingly enough), and when she left there the Ramseys went to stay with the Stines, I think they claimed because of being hounded by the press at Jay's.

It's been a while since I read this, but I think that was their story. Corrections welcome.

 

Originally posted by koldkase:

Indeed, that's the question. In his deposition, John didn't mention the Stines until he had to. He mentioned a woman whose last name he couldn't even remember, but not the Stines.

 

koldcase

1. I have asked the Whites and Judith Phillips (who was on that same ballteam) about the relationship between Susan and Patsy prior to JonBenet's death. Their responses were the same: Doug and Burke were friends but the parents were not close.

2. The NY trip is interesting. My 1st thought was that it was a "make-up" trip for an earlier promise that couldn't be kept. I would like to know more about the NY trip and the Red Boat trip.

 

All I've ever read about the NYC shopping trip was that Nedra Paugh, Patsy's mom, looked after JonBenet and Burke while the Rs were gone, and that Nathan, the Stines' live-in babysitter looked after Doug. John and Patsy, along with Susan and Glen Stine were in NYC on December 6th, the night JonBenet was in the parade.

All I've ever read about the Disney Big Red Boat trip was that Patsy would be spending her birthday aboard the cruise ship. Although there's been some speculation on the forums, I've never seen it confirmed that any friend or relative of the Rs was going to accompany them.

I too would like to know the details surrounding the NYC trip (what prompted the Ramseys and the Stines to go on the trip together when they weren't close friends?) and more about the planned boat trip, such as, had the Rs invited guests?

 

Spade, I think you have to register for Delphi first, and then you'll be able to get into that forum, which is an archive of posts that ACR saved. There was one which I can no longer find which had his theory. I am getting a headache looking for it because I do not have searching capabilities.

Here's something though:

5. "Don't read too much into"
Posted by lake on 00:49:01 10/08/98
Include Original
Message on Reply
the Lou Smit resignation letter. He just got tierd of the Witch Hunt. He has
been around the horn too many times. Witch Hunts and Snip hunts just
don't hold a man's interest after age 55..

And here are alot of old JW threads from 2000 on, don't know if Lake if this was after Lake quit:

http://jwarchive.tripod.com/index.htm

 

5. "Don't read too much into"
the Lou Smit resignation letter. He just got tierd of the Witch Hunt. He has
been around the horn too many times. Witch Hunts and Snip hunts just
don't hold a man's interest after age 55..Posted by lake on 00:49:01 10/08/98

Lake certainly didn't read that right. Of course trying to frame innocents for a crime you know they didn't commit; might hold a man's interest after age 55..A man like Lou Smit ABK.

 

jwarchive link

That link has plenty of Lake postings - unfortunately. This was the time period of the assault upon the Whites.

 

Lake's Postings

I did some research years ago on this person and found that a neighbor of the Stines and Ramsey's last name was Lake. Also, a Bill Lake was in the movie about JonBenet's murder.

Anyway, here are some posts by Lake (broken up for expediency of posting), from the old Justice Watch forum. Hints as to who this might be can be found in the mispelled words. I'd say typos except for the fact that he mispells them over and over again.

Unbelieveably
seperately
neice
judgement
cooberated
publically
coverup
warrent

I doubt seriously this is Ohlshaker.

________________________________
"More MW"
Posted by lake on 17:34:01 5/31/2000

The claims of the woman from Ca. is the closest thing to date that makes
the loose ends of this case tie together. Now this woman has a brother and
a sister that are are alive and well. Her sister is two years younger than
she, and her brother is 4 years younger than she. It seems to me that her
stories of abuse and the long time connection to the White family could be
cooberated by her siblings if they were willing to talk. But quite often,
siblings do not come forward when this type of abuse and criminal activity is
involved.
But the kicker to me is the long time association with the White family if
there is no biological connection between the two families. Especially since
the mother of the MW confirms that she and a MW neice have been in the
company of the Whites in Boulder Co. in 1996. Of course the mother says it
was a Haloween party in 1996 and not the Christmas party that MW says
the mother told her of. But is one to believe a long time abuser of children
or a former child that was abused?


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6. "Not likely, SD"
Posted by lake on 22:24:55 5/31/2000

But since SLK(R) is a government employee, I think the Feds are might be
able to put some extra pressure on that one. The case may be about to to
turn the corner and ST is going to be run over again. This guy can't can't
stay on his feet.
Poor Steve. He is going to be run over but good this time.
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8. "Well"
Posted by lake on 22:38:25 5/31/2000

Most of you could be run over by the truth of this case and would not know
what hit you. Just like little Stevie. If he were not such a moron one might
feel sorry for him.
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21. "fly"
Posted by lake on 16:04:30 6/01/2000
NOTE: This message was last edited 16:04:30, 6/01/2000

I try and give you the benefit of the doubt, but sometime your thinking is
soo skewed. Fleet White wrote public letters pretending to be defending the
good name of Boulder from the mess he claimed Hunter was making of the
Ramsey case. And he cannot find it in him to write one public letter
defending the good name of HIS family? Demanding that the BPD "clear" his
family from the claims of NJK? Give me a break, fly. And god knows it is a
huge family. If you open your eyes, you will see that the area within a 90
mile radius of Boulder is crawling with White/Brown/Cox/Christof relatives.

The "hero" of many on JW has his feet nailed to the floor on this one. He
can trot out posters like A.K. with his misinformation, but that is about it.

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28. "Luvsflowers"
Posted by lake on 16:29:13 6/01/2000
One word. EVIDENCE. That which Steve Thomas and the BPD do not seem
to think is important before one writes a book based on theory and
speculation.
The Ramseys and their investigators are much, much smarter than Steve
Thomas and the BPD.

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32. "The poster A.K"
Posted by lake on 17:33:04 6/01/2000
NOTE: This message was last edited 17:33:04, 6/01/2000

Has had an agenda for years. And her agenda has never been JFJBR as far
as I can tell. Her agenda has been ITRAAC. But A.K (by her own admission)
has been in bed with the tabloids from very early on in this case. And so
has FW. A "key witness" in a murder case in bed with the tabloids through a
covey of middlemen and women is highly suspect.

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85. "Well, fly"
Posted by lake on 13:54:57 6/02/2000
You have not seen that evidence and Thomas is putting his own personal
spin on that evidence you have not seen. But then you trust a corrupt cop
that writes a book using case files of an open investigation and who had
been in bed with the tabloids during the time he worked the case.
Me, I find the MW to be more honest that Thomas has proven to be. Maybe
things will change, but right now MW stands head and shoulders above
Thomas as a human being.

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1. "Luvs"
Posted by lake on 16:41:47 6/02/2000
NOTE: This message was last edited 16:41:47, 6/02/2000

Good questions. But I don't say the mother was there. NJK says her mother
told her by phone one the 12/27/96 that the mother and the neice of NJK
were at the Whites dinner party on 12/25/96.

As far as which party it was, ask the Ramseys the Whites and the BPD. My
bet is that NJK's mother and the neice were there on 12/25/96.

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2. "But"
Posted by lake on 16:57:07 6/02/2000
Patsy Ramsey says there were two sisters of P. B. White at that dinner
party. I can only account for one sister of P.B. White in what has been fed
to the public. That one is the Allison person that Jams. claims has a last
name of Shoeny. The Heather Cox person is represented as a neice of P.B.
White. I know of a Heather Danialle Cox who would have been about 10
years old at the time of the murder. And a Heather Boykin (maiden name)
who would have been about 21 at the time.

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9. "Should be Clear"
Posted by lake on 14:25:23 6/03/2000
NOTE: This message was last edited 14:25:23, 6/03/2000

That the Ramsesy and the Whites are misdirecting in this case. The BPD lets
the Ramseys make BPD look like village idiots and the DA lets the Whites
make him look like the village idiot. And the Gov. says the case is on the
right track. Well the right track is probably the siding track that it has been
on for about 2 years.

Fleet White allows the media to present him (for 2 years) as someone that
has the key to solving the case but is just waiting for a trial to let it all
hang out. The Ramseys allow the media to present them as the killers of
their daughter for years. The Ramseys blame the BPD and the Whites blame
the DA for everything that is wrong in this case.

Now, more than 3 years after the killing a woman from Ca. comes forward
with info. that she thinks may have direct or indirect impact on the murder
of JBR. A "match made on heaven" for the Ramseys if they are pulling a
scam. People allegedly connected to some pretty weird behavior with little
grils that are friends with the Whites and have visited the Whites within
days or months of the murder of JBR. But do the Rs and their team jump on
the find publically and demand that the BPD, the FBI and the Russan Army
take these charges seriously because even a tree stump should be able to
see the probabilities that lay within these allegations? No. The Ramseys
move the spotlight to them by taking a PG and debating Steve Thomas on
LKL. Even run out the Psychic sketch of the killer. And not a peep out of
the Ramseys about the "match made in heaven" with the California
connection.

Even FW does not appear to think that it is necessary to publically defend
his family name from the public allegations of the MW. Contrast that to the
need FW had to defend the reputation of the City of Boulder when he said
the DA was destroying the moral of the BPD. Hey, the man had lived in
Boulder only for about 2 years in 1996.

And Beckner just sits at his desk and postures about the need for the FBI to
administer a PG and says he needs to interview the Ramseys seperately
about "new" developments in the case since the end of the GJ. And honest
indian, he tried, but the BPD just could not find any connection between the
MW claims and the killing of JBR.

Could it be any clearer than that?

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27. "Darn It All"
Posted by lake on 20:43:22 6/03/2000
I must have taken a wrong turn. Too many people agree with that post.
Pretend it never happened.
Let me back track here.

But, the beauty of it is that there is no single answer to the WHY of the
obvious suspect behavior of all the players in this case.

1) Did BR do it because of some influence of a juvenile connected to the
Whites and mom coverup without really knowing WHY it had happened but
suspecting that IT MAY HAVE happen?

2) Did some other juvenile connected to the Whites do the deed and BR
played a minor role and PR & JR knew nothing for sure when PR called 911
but suspected the worst and yet "knew in their hearts" that the worst just
could not be?

3) I can't go for the adult killer bit, but that is an option. But this one makes
the weakest option to me. JR and PR are not likely to let any adult abuse
that little girl, kill her and
get away with it. And there is no evidence to suggest that the Rs exhibited
child abuse or child sexual molestation in the past. That is why Thomas had
to come up with that silly hypothesis in his book. But NJK holds the key to
that question regarding the Whites. And Fleet White has not set his hair on
fire publicly denouncing NJK like he did the DA when he was sooo concerned
about the moral of the BPD and how the the JBR case might hurt the tourist
trade in the fine city of Boulder.

And the absence of conclusive evidence does not equate to absence of
invlovement by one in a crime. And that applies to the Whites or one or
more of their guests as well as the Ramseys.
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33. "OK, But"
Posted by lake on 00:49:33 6/04/2000
NOTE: This message was last edited 00:49:33, 6/04/2000

Discount the juvenile angle at your own risk. The BPD has yet to release the
911 tape after more than three years. The BPD has not seen fit to make
public the names sealed at the request of the DA in the search warrent of
the Ramsey home of 12/26/96. The BPD has not seen fit to disclose the
location of and the reason for the search warrent of which the entire
contents still remains under seal after more than three years.

This spells juveniles. And the GJ was sworn to secrecy and the GJ
proceedings are under seal after all the leaking that Thomas and Company
did for the first 18 months of this case. And this spells juvenile involvement
in the crime. BR was the last to appear before the GJ and the day after his
appearance before the GJ it was reported that the BPD was out taking DNA
samples from an exteded family of four. And less than a week later, BR was
officially cleared by the DA and the BPD. Juveniles.

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36. "Well, darby"
Posted by lake on 02:07:15 6/04/2000
A naked picture of a baby does not a child molester make. If that were the
case both my parents, the parents of my wife, my next door neighbor and
about 1/2 to 3/4 of the parents in America would be child molesters. And
you have to look to Burke in such a speculation. The Ramseys were much
too free in letting BR go back to school and interact with other kids right
after the murder. Heck, they acted like BR was some stranger if you notice
him in the news clips.
Many just hang on to the Rs and molesters because they need to. Not
because of any evidence of that.
But the close friends of the Rs may be a different matter from the evidence.

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57. "Ginja"
Posted by lake on 15:23:27 6/04/2000
NOTE: This message was last edited 15:23:27, 6/04/2000

As long as you understand that you are putting your spin on most
everything, then all is OK.
But Koby said the cops did not look in the room that morining. You spin
against Koby there. Koby talked to the cops in question, you did not and
Ressler seems to be confused about that since he did not say he talked
personally to the cop. And remember that the original disinformation about
the door was that JR was with the cop and the door was painted shut.
Disinformtion.

As far as FW statement that he did not see the body at about 6:30 am, you
take his word for that without question, I suspose. But FW looked into the
room at at about 6:30 and maybe saw no body.
But there was said to be a differecnce in the lighting at the early morning
hour when compared to the lighting at early afternoon when JR is said to
have opened the door and saw the body.

Also were the two men were standing, the size of the two men and the
lighting has been reported to have an effect upon the amount of light that
entered the room. This is a non issue to me. You can spin it any way you
care to and still prove nothing about the issue being debated.

And of course you also must take the word of FW as to why he moved the
blue suitcase, moved broken glass, opened the door to the room of the
body room and returned to the room and picked up the tape removed form
the mouth of JBR after the body was taken up the stairs by JR and Arndt
said she told FW to guard the door to the basement and not let anyone
down there.

But of course you assume the motives of FW were innocent. I find a lot to
suspect about FW. And I would not buy a used car from the man or take is
word alone for anything about this case.

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63. "Well, FW"
Posted by lake on 16:27:53 6/04/2000
Is smart enough to know that if he denies the MW charges publically
through a letter to the newspaper of some such way, he has opened himself
up for substantiation of the charges in the media by those that know better
but may not be able to prove the charges in a court of law because of the
lies and coverup by the people involved in the activities. One of those he
said she said things. Sort of like the murder of JBR. If the BPD can't prove
that one, imagine the problems they would have with a child molestation
charge with the baggage of this case hanging over them.

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More posts by lake

67. "And"
Posted by lake on 16:53:58 6/04/2000
NOTE: This message was last edited 16:53:58, 6/04/2000

Many who are dug in with a RDI theory are satisfied to fabricate reasons
why PR or JR would kill JBR. Most of such fabrications being absurd, not
supported by evidence or the exaustive investigation into the behavior of
the Ramseys over the years with 5 children.

But MW who makes claims that the BPD investigates and does not confirm
or deny many of those claims publically is viewed as a non issue by those
that prefer facbication of the motives for the Ramseys. Go figure that one.

MW has photographic proof of a connection between her family and that of
FW sr and FW. It would not unreasonable to suspect that the mother of MW
is a pimp for people with money who have some pretty weird sexual
preferences with children. That mother tells the BPD that she had visited in
the home of FW with her neice at a Halloween party in 1996. MW says her
mother said that she was at the home of FW on the eveing of 12/25/96. Her
mother denies this to the BPD.

But what is a possible pimp for child sex molesters doing at the White's
Halloween party? Was this an adult or childs party? And since JBR was the
best friend of the daughter of the Whites,and the Whites and Ramseys were
close friends, what are the odds that JBR was at that Halloween party?

I would say that more evidence could be produced that the mother of MW is
a pimp for child sexual molesters that can be produced that either Patsy or
John Ramsey have every molested any child.

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69. "darby"
Posted by lake on 17:44:45 6/04/2000
NOTE: This message was last edited 17:44:45, 6/04/2000

I doubt anyone with eyewitness knowledge will come forward to back the
MW up on her claims. My understanding is that her mother, sister and
brother did not stand with her on the Mackey Boykin thing. But even if
someone did, that would be no direct link to the JBR murder. The BPD does
not have the evidence and this case was messed up by the BPD. Killers
should not be counted on to confess like Thomas and some think they
should be required by law to do.

We know that her therapist says she is not making things up, the DA that
handled her rape case in 79 stands by her according to reports, and the
BPD has said nothing about the woman being from Mars. The BPD just says
that they cannot make a direct link between what MW has to say and the
evidence in the Ramsey case.

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72. "Post # 71"
Posted by lake on 18:07:44 6/04/2000
NOTE: This message was last edited 18:07:44, 6/04/2000

Hangs together until you get to the point where both sets of parents are
involved in the coverup.
On 12/26/96 and thereafter the Whites and the Ramseys were going in
different directions. The agenda of the Whites was to cooperate with the
police and not call media attention to the crime.
The agenda if JR was to have a through investigation and find out the who
and the why of the killing of JBR.

If both sets of parents were involved they would most likely have pulled
together after the 911 call and the Ramseys would have cooperated with
the police as the Whites seem to have pretended to cooperate with the
police. JR hired lawyers and private investigators and the Whites fed
disinformation to the BPD in an attempt to direct the focus of the
investigation away from what they might have to hide and onto the
Ramseys who apparently had very little if anything to hide in their present
or past.

I would like to see the investigation release the original and enhanced 911
tapes, the redacted names and the sealed search warrent.

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74. "But"
Posted by lake on 18:58:02 6/04/2000
As to who might be most likely to have a connection to child molesters,
Fleet White wins hands down over PR or JR. His "family" has remained friends
with a womam GLCKB for about 50 years or more. The same woman who NLK
says was a part of a number of different people who abused her on various
occassions from early childhood until recently. The one constant in the life
of the abused woman seems to be her mother, her grandmother, and the
Whites. This GLCKB has made visits to the Whites home in Boulder in 1996.
The BPD is said to have told NJK that her mother said it was Halloween,NJK
says her mother told her it was Christmas. But the fact that the mother of
NJK was at the Whites at all in 1996 should rase a big red flag for anyone.
There is no proof at all that the mother of NJK is biologically related to the
Whites or the Browns.
The evidence seems to suggest that the mother is not biologically related to
either the Whites or the Browns.

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79. "Well"
Posted by lake on 21:40:45 6/04/2000
"Seriously Lake, wouldn't dissention rather than togetherness further
detract from the real scenario?"

I don't think so. Ther Rs are not going to invite the FBI with a ransom note
and expect to get a through investitation with the Rs being the prime
targets because they were known to be in the house. It was their child that
was dead and I don't see it as being reasonalbe to conclude that they were
going to take the heat while the other couple kept directing the heat
toward them by leading Thomas around like they had a ring in his nose.

Darby: PW said they knew the Rs for two years when JBR was killed. JR said
the women met first and that he a FW were introduced by the women.

Luvs: I think sometimes things happen and you go with the flow. Unless of
course there were others in the house (redacted names from the search
warrent) and that was the reason for the call placed to the Whites. And
maybe a childs voice on the 911 tape that does not belong to BR being the
reason why the tape has not been made public after more than 3 years.

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84. "Well"
Posted by lake on 22:43:00 6/04/2000
I could not disagree more. The Ramseys PI's do not report their every move
to the media like the BPD with their no evidence case have chosen to do.
But the Ramseys investigation stopped the BPD dead in their tracks with the
GJ.

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88. "Of course"
Posted by lake on 23:20:55 6/04/2000
NOTE: This message was last edited 23:20:55, 6/04/2000

Neither killed the child, knows for sure who did, and neither wrote the
ransom note. But they both agree that whoever wrote the note is the killer.
And JR has an idea of who the killer is but he does not know for sure. PR
does not seem to have a clue. That woman could not pass a PG test if she
were telling a lie. But she tends to get so carried away at times that she
sure could test inconclusive even if she were telling the truth.
And you can bet anything of value you have that JR does not think BR killed
JBR. The Star tabloid has already settled with the Rs because of the story
they ran. And they have several more suits in the works on behalf of BR.

I would like to see FW & PW hooked up to one of those voodoo machines.
Let Gelb give those two one. The Ramseys would probably even pay for the
darn test if money is an issue with FW.

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90. "I say"
Posted by lake on 01:36:24 6/05/2000
That if it is OK for the BPD, the DA the Whites and the press to put to
public on about this killing, it should be OK for the Ramseys to engage in the
same kind of disinformation. This is a messed up case that has turned into a
comedy of errors, bad taste, bad judgement , chaseing the dollar, and just
plain stupid acting people.
And if I hear Bozo Beckner say one more time that he has some new
developments that he needs the Ramseys help with and wants to talk to
the seperately, I think I am going to puke. They need to come up with
another line.

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1. "Foster"
Posted by lake on 21:16:16 6/07/2000
NOTE: This message was last edited 21:16:16, 6/07/2000

Hung himself when he wrote that letter to Patsy Ramsey in 1997 saying that
he knew that she did not write the ransom note and would stake his
professional reputation on that. Then the idiot agreed to work with the BPD
when the Ramseys lawyers had no interest in his offer to prove that Patsy
Ramsey did not write the Ransom note.

Foster was dead in the water before Jameson ever heard of Donald Foster.
And Fleet has been hiding his dirty little family secrets for years before he
ever heard of JonBenet Ramsey.

You certainly do use a lot of words to spin disinformation, Ryder.

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3. "Ruthee"
Posted by lake on 22:29:05 6/07/2000
Stick to your "visions" Ruthee. Maybe you could come up with a psychic
sketch of what you KNOW the killer looks like. I am sure you have a picture
in mind. Not an objective and scientific one. But since when have psychics
been objective and scientific?

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8. "Well"
Posted by lake on 00:54:06 6/08/2000
Thanks for your opinion socks, but what took Eillis so long to discover that
the Ramseys are guilty when most here seem to have know that for years?
He was on the payroll for three years and only resigned 7 months after the
GJ heard the case and failed to indict the Ramseys.

I think you are spinning the Armistead resignation
just like you spun everything else in your post.
If you know so darned much for sure, you should have been in Boulder
helping out that poor excuse for a detective Steve Thomas before he got
his butt kicked off the case in 1998.

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5. "And"
Posted by lake on 00:40:03 6/08/2000
NOTE: This message was last edited 00:40:03, 6/08/2000

As long as there are publicity hounds like Foster who write a letter to a
suspect saying on thing and then go to the invesigators and say the
opposite, you can expect the so called expert the get his clock cleaned by
any fair minded observer.

And as long a "key witness" like Fleet White allow himself to be presented in
the press for three years as fair minded and seeking only justice for a
murdered six year old little girl, when probable facts are alleged that the
man's objective just may be to keep the cops away from the filth in his
family, then that guy should expect to be called into question by any fair
minded observer.

But I am sure that Ryder appreciates your moronic support rico.

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9. "socks"
Posted by lake on 01:07:07 6/08/2000
NOTE: This message was last edited 01:07:07, 6/08/2000

OK. If you will show me proof of that junk you are posting. And if you can't
do that, then shut up.

But if you read at Jameson's,notice that she and most of hers are
attempting to bury the MW story as hard as people like you are. STRANGE.

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32. "Foster"
Posted by lake on 22:38:40 6/09/2000
NOTE: This message was last edited 22:38:40, 6/09/2000

Foster was all the BPD could "buy" to say PR wrote the note. There were so
called experts being pushed forward by Dumbo Hoffman who were just
making fools of themselves with the unprofessional approach they were
taking to arrive at their conclusions. The investigation experts who
examined the note and extensive sample of PR's writing concluded that it
was highly unlikely, or no evidence of, or very low indications that PR wrote
the note. The one guy at the CBI who ranked PR the highest had her ranked
just above inconclusive. Hardly a compelling judgement.
So where was the BPD to go? Well to a fraud and a fool that could be
bought with publicity. And that would be Donald Foster. The same way the
BPD went to the tabloid press to create the presumption of guilt in the
public because they (the BPD) did not have a case, but they had theories.
Oh they have a number of theories. And all Foster really has a theory. Just
like the housekeeper Hoffman
has a theory that apparently was planted in her weak mind by by Thomas
and the tabloids.

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38. "No, Lacey"
Posted by lake on 21:10:33 6/10/2000
NOTE: This message was last edited 21:10:33, 6/10/2000

Handwriting experts who have examined the note and adequate samples of
Patsy Ramsey's writing have concluded that is is possible but highly unlikely
that PR wrote the note. The CIA ruled that there is no evidence that PR
wrote the note.
The CBI rating is that it is possible that PR wrote the note but there is no
evidence that she write the note due to the many differences in the writing
of PR and the writing on the note.
You need to stop making things up if you want to be taken seriously.

I realize that you want to believe that PR wrote the note because that is
apparently the only way you can understand this complex case. You and
Thomas are apparently two of a kind. Shallow.

Lina Hoffman, Judith Phillips and the Hoffman handwriting clowns would say
you wrote the note for a few bucks and some publicity. I hope you have a
good alibi if you think the cops and the public should rely on publicity
hounds to decide the evidence in a murder case.

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43. "Ginja"
Posted by lake on 20:22:06 6/11/2000
NOTE: This message was last edited 20:22:06, 6/11/2000

Seems to me that most of the witnesses for The State would make good
witnesses for the defense if one of the Ramseys were ever charged with
this crime. And the fact that the police think they know who did this crime
is about a relevant to a trial as most of the posters here thinking what they
know did the crime. The fact that Steve Thomas thinks PR killed JBR over
some bedwetting issue and wrote the note to cover up, means about as
much to me as a poster thinking JR wrote the note or a poster thinking
Patsy wrote the note.
Because it is clear that the evidence of the note does not support either
conclusion.

Sure the evidence supports the fact that PR could have written the note,
but the rest of the circumstantial evidence does not support the conclusion
that PR did the crime. And if PR could have written the note, the evidence
does not offer support for why she would have written the note and not
done the crime, So the "could have" of the note really is not adequately
supported by the other evidence and circumstances of the case to charge
either Ramsey with the crime. And that, along with the way this case was
handled by the BPD and the DA, leaves plenty of questions open as to who
and why of this crime.

I guess the bottom line is that until the Ramseys or the BPD are willing or
can produce someone whose handwriting is as good or better match to the
note as that of PR, and could be considered a suspect from the case
evidence and circumstances, PR is on the hook with the public. However,
Lin Wood seems to have confidence that such a person just might be able
to be pulled out from behind the smoke screen in a civil trial. My money
would be on the bet that Patsy Ramsey did not write the ransom note.
Because I think it would be highly unlikely that she could have written that
particular note if she did not kill the child. And the fact that it cannot be
established that she killed the chid, along with the low handwriting ID
probability, lets her off the hook as the probable writer of the note with me.

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48. "I know what you mean Nandee"
Posted by lake on 00:36:11 6/12/2000
NOTE: This message was last edited 00:36:11, 6/12/2000

But the handwriting experts who examined the note and writings under
accepted conditions have already concluded that there is no evience that
Patsy Ramsey wrote the note. Sure they say she could have written the
note, but the same could be said for several others that the BPD took
handwriting samples from and could not eliminate as suspects based only on
the handwriting. They were eliminated for some other reason by the BPD.
Maybe they should not have been eliminated.

And for Foster to represent himself as an expert in the area of ransom note
ID does not pass the laugh test. A ransom note is just a much too limited
sample of a persons work for Foster to get involved with. That is not the
area of the man's expertese. He may want to branch out in his field of work,
but to do it at the expense of someone suspect of killing their own child is
idiotic on Foster's part.

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"More MW" Posted by lake on 17:34:01 5/31/2000 The claims of the woman from Ca. is the closest thing to date that makes the loose ends of this case tie together. Now this woman has a brother and a sister that are are alive and well. Her sister is two years younger than she, and her brother is 4 years younger than she. It seems to me that her stories of abuse and the long time connection to the White family could be cooberated by her siblings if they were willing to talk. But quite often, siblings do not come forward when this type of abuse and criminal activity is involved. But the kicker to me is the long time association with the White family if there is no biological connection between the two families. Especially since the mother of the MW confirms that she and a MW neice have been in the company of the Whites in Boulder Co. in 1996. Of course the mother says it was a Haloween party in 1996 and not the Christmas party that MW says the mother told her of. But is one to believe a long time abuser of children or a former child that was abused? [ ALERT ] [ EDIT ] [ REPLY ] [ REPLY WITH QUOTE ] [ TOP ] [ MAIN ]
________________________________________[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

Vp

Thanks for posting lake's MW ravings. A friend called this aft. and he has my lake files. Thanks again. Spade

Edited to add: I'm very confidant in my lake/Ohlshaker connection. Most writers depend on spell check a feature that is absent from the forums.

 

cooberation

I googled cooberation + Jonbenet and here is one of the hits I got - notice the email ... "Jazzy...." Makes you go, hmmmmmmmmmmmm!!

De : Crescentius Vespasianus - afficher le profil
Date : Mer 30 août 2006 04:59
E-mail : "Crescentius Vespasianus" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com>
Groupes : seattle.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics.elections, alt.news-media
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I have emailed the Boulder DA, a catalog of newsgroup postings of one
Gary Roselles of Rapid City, South Dakota. They must conclude, as I have,
that Gary Roselles is the one who murdered JonBenet Ramsey. Gary Roselles
fits the profile, he's bizarre, his ramblings are incoherent, he has
threatened people and should be considered dangerous, he has a long record
of hating the rich and rants about wanting to kill Republicans. JonBenet,
was rich and a Republican. The Boulder DA, must conclude as I have, that
Gary Roselles murdered JonBenet, and must be extradited from South Dakota
ASAP. A non-arrest would indicate a Democrat trying to protect another
Democrat and would warrent an investigation of the Boulder DA office by the
State of Colorado. I know with certainty that Gary Roselles was the one
with JonBenet the night she died.

 

"A friend called this aft. and he has my lake files."

Yes! The day is saved by Spades friend!

Imagine That.
RR

 

Curiouser and Curiouser

So I found the above person by simply putting cooberation + jonbenet in a google search. That led me to the email jazzyboss@hotmail.com. Does anyone remember Jazzyb??? Anyway - and this email address led me to these posts. (Please remember that the journalist who met JMK was covering a bicycle racing event)

Asunto: Did Floyd kill JonBenet?
De: jazzyboss@hotmail.com (Callistus Valerius) <---Different nameGrupo: rec.bicycles.racing
Organización: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net
Fecha: 18-Aug-2006, 05:15:48(CET)


The freak in Thailand was in Alabama that Christmas in '96, but Floyd
was in Boulder. Maybe the BPD could limit it's investigation to those folks
in Boulder the night of the killing. There's a police term, I think it's
that the suspect must have opportunity, and Floyd did, that night.


0.379 s. - arriba

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