Forensic evidence

Then you haven't seen all the examples, Blue. I would need to see Patsy's jacket close up to get a better idea of it, and like some of the posters here, I have had the experience of using a sewing machine and taking courses. Don't sew at all now, hate it!

I was just thinking, wasn't it odd Patsy Ramsey wore this navy blue jacket with the flat braid/cord trim immediately after her daughter was found dead, and a ligature with similar cord was around her daughter's neck. How many mothers would have chosen to wear something like that, knowing of the similarities?

Was Patsy using psychology again? Did she think the public would quickly think, Patsy would never have worn anything like that if she had been the one linked to the cord around JonBenét's neck? I think Patsy was the Master of the Plan.

 

EasyWriter,

but remember that according to Steve Thomas's theory, John Ramsey didn't participate in the staging either, but had no idea of what had happened until he discovered JonBenet's dead body in the wine cellar.
Which is why I wanted to ask S.Thomas this question - how he would explain the fiber evidence against John then, if John had not even helped Patsy in the cover-up.

 

Steve Thomas' theory about John always had a couple of holes in it. He never did explain why, if John knew nothing, did he conspire with Patsy to tell the police Burke slept threw everything and wasn't awake before the 911 call was placed.

 

I don't think I can explain so you can understand.
Comparing the size of the trim in the photo to the size of her neck in the photo gives some idea of the size of the cord. If you look at the trim on Patsy's jacket, it's bigger than the trim on JB's jacket. The trim on Patsy's jacket is fairly big compared to Patsy's neck. If you look at the picture of Patsy's jacket and compare it (and the size of Patsy's neck) with JB's neck and the cord in the autopsy photos, the trim on Patsy's jacket is too big. Comparing the autopsy photo with the photo of JB's jacket trim, the size is a better match.

 

Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn!. Sorry I asked. I'll just go along with my own thinking, thank you very much.

 

well, OK then.

 

It was definitely proven through lab analysis that it was the same type of cord. Steve Thomas, p. 291:

"And when the cord tests were returned, the samples I had purchased from the army store were consistent with the murder ligature."

 

Easywriter - like poster BluesStrat pointed out (#347 post on this thread), Nylon is hardly used in garments anymore, since it is affected by the chemicals in the dry cleaning process and also melts when in contact with a hot steam iron.
This would rule out imo that the cord was bought for sewing purposes, and therefore I don't think the piping in JB's dress was Nylon either.

Couldn't it be the width of the cord?

[/QUOTE]
Easywriter, Van Tassell's first analysis of the cord turned out to be correct, for lab tests later confirmed it (Steve Thomas, p. 291):

"And when the cord results were returned, the samples I had puchased from the army store were consistent with the murder ligature."

(The same type of cord was both sold at McGuckin's and at the army store, and ST had bought samples from both stores).

 

Yeah, that's the big problem with John being unaware of what had happened - he didn't act like he was unaware. He sure seemed to be part of the whole thing from the beginning. If he were truly unaware, and alarmed, believed the ransom note or even had concerns, why didn't he just pin Patsy down and find out what the heck was going on? John's behavior and actions on that morning after are consistent with a knowing participant, not someone totally outside the action.

 

::yes::
And what about the "if we catch you talking to any stray dogs" part of the 'ransom' note. He certainly did not act like someone who was reading that would be expected to act.

 

I will tell you what, if I saw a 3-page note in what appeared to be my husband's writing (which is also distinctive and hard to disguise) and he was telling me that one of our kids was missing, and the kidnappers had left that note, I sure would sit down and ask him what the heck was going on. Look him square in the eye and say, "I KNOW you wrote this, so what is going on?" Well, that would be as I was also calling the cops to come and haul his butt away...to be interrogated.

But there was something else to be covered up that Christmas night, wasn't there...

 

It wasn't a dress rashomon, it was a navy blue jacket with lapels. Same with Patsy, not a dress, a jacket.

I have to agree with you EW. I feel this flat cord could have been made from a woven thread bought from a fabric store. From the photographs, the ligature seems to lie as if it was made from a much softer material than nylon.

I do know all about the Steve Thomas take on this, and I am a big fan of Steve's. Just wish we could actually see a sample from the ligature, but that's out of the question.

 

There was a picture a year or two ago published in the NE, I think, or maybe the Globe--it's been a while. I didn't remember seeing it before, but it was of the Ramsey basement, before all the stuff was removed. Can't remember if it was a crime scene photo or not, but it looked authentic.

In that picture, there were clear plastic storage boxes...and you could see through one that had cords and ribbons neatly laid out, as if they were new or carefully tied together as they are at stores when you buy them.

I have no idea if LE even noticed, or if they were taken in the searches by LE.

There are any number of places that cord could have been in the home and/or taken from items already in the home...we'll never know, I suspect. But it's absurd to say that LE NOT finding it equals AN INTRUDER. Silly. Especially since Aunt Pam loaded up the trunk of a police car with items from the home, with the permission and cooperation of LE. There are countless ways the cord and duct tape could have been concealed or removed from the house by the Ramseys themselves that night or later.

And since jams claims that "someone" in Team Ramsey found the remaining Bloomies size 12 among the Ramsey possessions, which LE missed, though she won't specify WHERE or WHEN that happened, predictably enough, it's again ABSURD to then claim that LE couldn't have MISSED finding a hidden role of duct tape and cord in a 15 room, 4 level, cluttered home. If LE HAD found them, the Ramseys could then have said, OH! The intruder wrote the ransom note with our paper and pen, AND used DUCT TAPE AND CORD from OUR HOUSE, as well! He wouldn't want to be CAUGHT with those items, after all, and EVERYONE has those in the home!!

Remind me WHAT DAY of LE crime scene techs going over the home did Pam go in and raid the house?

 

It's been a long time, but wasn't that Stansport cord listed on that company's Internet site among camping items? I think it was, as I looked it up once.

I've often wondered if those "open drawers" in JAR's bathroom and the bag with rope at the foot of JAR's bed weren't pulled out frantically in search of "something" that ended up being that cord.

That's the same area of the home with the diapers hanging out of the open cabinet door in the wash area, the same cabinet where LHP hid Burke's swiss knife a short time before. Burke's knife was found in the basement on a counter outside the cellar room. I once read that knife was found to have the duct tape residue on it, but no one seems to talk about that, and I THINK, but won't swear, that the info came from Wecht's book.

Just some thoughts.

 

It would be an interesting question!

 

KoldKase

KK, It was December 28, 1996. Just two days after JonBenét's body was found.

 

KK,

Doesn't it strike you as odd, that in a house the size of the Ramsey house, that Patsy Ramsey chooses to wrap her christmas presents down in this cluttered basement? Surely there was a better place for her to do this, in comfort? There must have been another room she could have used upstairs, and locked (?).

Think about this, carting all the presents down there to begin with, and
back up again to the main room where the Christmas tree was.

This was not a home typical of what we all live in ourselves. This was a monster house, with the maze basement.

 

Interesting in that context is what Texan and BluesStrat have written:

I don't agree with ST's theory of what happened (he thinks that John had nothing to with the murder nor with the staging) but I don't think Steve Thomas would ever consciously put in false factual information in his book.
Therefore when he says that the cord he had bought was (ST, p. 234):

"Coghlan's cord", a soft nylon, fifty-foot length of white
Stansport 32-strand, 3/16-inch woven cord.

and when he then says that lab tests confirmed that this cord was indeed consistent with the ligature tied around JB's neck and wrists (ST, p. 291):

"And when the cord results were returned, the samples I had puchased from the army store were consistent with the murder ligature."

I believe him 100 per cent.