Patsy Just Sat There

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Nandee, Jan 27, 2002.

  1. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Thanks Dunv

    That was very sweet.

    Patsy hesitated, IMO, because she was terrified--knowing she was going to have to do the acting job of her life, and she didn't know if she could pull it off.
     
  2. Freebird

    Freebird Active Member

    I would think that the adrenaline of thinking your child was kidnapped and needing to be 'found/rescued' would keep one moving around searching thru every room in the house, yard, neighborhood a constant search with your mind going a million miles a minit thinking of all the places she could be and rounding up every way possibly of finding her,
    like TELLING the cops to send out dogs,TELLIN the cops where to search.
    I'm a pretty low keyed, in the background kind of person but I can't imagine being passive in this instance. The Police would of had to push me off of them.

    *****The glob of jello that Patsy portrayed that morning with just sitting in the chair and having to be walked into the living room, sounds more like what you would go thru AFTER knowing your family member had died. It seems that she had already had time to accept the death and begin to fall apart.

    *** And I could not imagine that as a parent I would not sit and cradle my child............ Neither of these parents hugged or cradled her, they threw themselves on top of her, when you would imagine they would scoop her up in their arms and have to be pried away. I just think that her being dead was no surprise.
     
  3. Zan

    Zan FFJ Senior Member

    Freebird

    That's a good point...

    "............ Neither of these parents hugged or cradled her, they threw themselves on top of her, when you would imagine they would scoop her up in their arms and have to be pried away. I just think that her being dead was no surprise."

    Right...pr supposedly didn't know JB was dead when she ran into the room...so she didn't know yet that her body was stiff...(or can you tell that just by looking at the dead body..in rigor?)...Did pr ever try to move JB's arms..and bring them down from above her head...in an attempt to make her more comfortable? She's dead and can't be made more comfortable..but I think a loved one would try anyway. Did pr mention anything about the stiffness?
     
  4. Nandee

    Nandee FFJ Senior Member

    yep

    Most important performance of her life......
     
  5. Gaiabetsy

    Gaiabetsy Member

    Guys

    Look, I admit I have no idea what I might do in the same situation, but I've felt QUITE CERTAIN from the very beginning there was something terribly wrong with both parent's reactions to the discovery of the body.

    I've tried to look at this objectively, but I'm sure I can't. I'm a parent and I find it hard to face bad things, but I honestly believe I'd react very, very differently. Patsy's behavior suggests someone dreading the reality she already knows. I have to be fair, though, and concede I'm just not sure I might not have behaved the same way. I hope not. My suspicion is I would like to just SIT THERE and kinda refuse to face it, but I truly believe my NATURAL INSTINCTS as a mom would force me to get up immediately and go to my child.

    I agree with other posters I would have picked up my child and cradled her to me instead of THROWING MYSELF ONTO HER. To me, that's a dead (excuse the pun) giveaway. Problem is, ain't nobody ever been arrested, convicted, or gone to jail for BEHAVING STRANGELY.

    Have the Rams ever explained themselves (in any interviews) about WHY they acted the way they did?
     
  6. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Gaiabetsy

    The key here is that at that exact moment in time, Jonbenet was alive to the best of Patsy's knowledge. Put yourself in Patsy's place at the exact moment your husband's best friend yells "Call an ambulance" while your husband bursts into the room carrying your missing daughter. For Patsy--Jonbenet was still a living kidnap victim. Unless of course, as another poster pointed out, she already knew the deal.

    And I believe she knew exactly what happened.
     
  7. Gaiabetsy

    Gaiabetsy Member

    Oh, Bob

    You are so right-on! Patsy knew. She knew. Every fiber of my being believes she knew.
     
  8. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Hi Giabetsy

    This type of reaction goes along with some tenants of FBI speech analysis-- when a child is "kidnapped" under suspicious circumstances, FBI agents look for the parent using past-tense speech patterns when referring to the missing kid. Innocent parents speak in present-tense while those have secretly murdered the child sometimes slip and speak about him or her in past tense--and this sends out a big old red flag. Susan Smith spoke of her kids in the past tense which is one of the things that made law enforcement zero in on her.

    As Chandra Levy's parents illustrate, most innocent parents cling to the idea that the missing kid is still alive--even when it's obvious that the odds are slim-to-none. And who can blame them!

    What's really important about the ramsey case is all the conflicting behaviour by both parents that morning. Their reactions didn't make sense and got the cops suspicious. John Ramsey asked Linda Arndt if Jonebenet was dead when he'd already held the body that was already in advanced rigormortis. At the same time, Patsy, who had absolutely no contact with the body, not only hesitated to approach her daughter, but she also immediately knew she was dead.

    Doesn't add up!
     
  9. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    I can remember

    when my children were teenagers and dating. I was one of those mothers who didn't rest until her chicks were home safely in bed. They all had curfews, and if they were one minute late, I would be looking out the windows at every car that went by, pacing, and when they did show up, I'd leap to my feet and run to the door to make sure they were okay.

    I never had a child missing, but I know I would have been all over that house looking for her, watching out windows...

    Pets - I've had pets missing before. We had one dog that liked to roam the woods around our home - we lived in the country. He and another dog of our would wander around the valley where we lived, where we knew all the neighbors and everyone let their pets wander that way - they didn't go anywhere but right in that neighborhood. I remember that one dog that didn't come home - the other dog came home, but that one dog didn't. For three days, I was going to all the windows, looking out to see if I could see him, pacing, not able to sit still. I walked in the woods to see if I could find him - we all did. Nothing.

    Finally on the fourth day, I was watching out a kitchen window when I saw him crawling toward our home. My husband was doing some work outside at the time, and he heard me whoop. I was running out the door as he was going to the dog, who had been shot in the shoulder by some *******. The vet was able to patch him up, and he lived many more years with us.

    I have had cats disappear in the house, and I tore my house apart looking for them. I guess everyone who has cats knows how they can disappear when they want to. I am a nut when it comes to not knowing where my children are (even now, I'm like that, and they are well able to take care of themselves). I am a nut when it comes to not knowing where my pets are.

    Kidnap one of my kids (or pets), write a ransom note, and put me in a room where I sit and cry while no one is searching the house? No way. No freaking way would I allow that to happen. No way would I hear shouting from another room, hear someone say Call 911 without running to see if my daughter had been found - alive. Because why would a kidnapper return to the house to deliver a dead child? BobC is right - her reaction was very telling. If a child were kidnapped and then was somehow back in that house, why didn't Patsy jump for joy that she had returned? Patsy knew what the noise and confusion were all about. Patsy didn't want to face what she knew was there. If she had not known that JB was dead, she would have shown hope at that moment - "Is JB back? Is she okay?" Instead, she was wailing before she even saw that JB was dead, and she didn't ask one question about how her daughter got back in the house if she had been kidnapped - no questions about JR finding her body in the basement.

    Patsy Ramsey didn't act like any mother with whom I am acquainted would have acted, and the old line, well you don't know how you would act, isn't going to cut it here. I most certainly DO know how I would act. I don't know who killed JB, but I believe one of the Ramseys did it and the other covered.
     
  10. Thor

    Thor Active Member

    WY, as before, I am with you on this all the way. And yes, I've got 3 cats and one of them disappears sometimes. You think "they've slipped out of the house somehow" and I can't handle it till I find her. Same with my daughter. Last year she pulled a disappearing act right before Easter (maybe some of you remember me ranting about this last year) and she was 20. Still living with us. She didn't call or come home and she was with a scuzball that we didn't know. Straight out of Deliverance. A prick. Anyway, I was frantic and couldn't sleep all night till she bounced in the next morning acting like it wasn't a big deal. Bottom line is I would be crazy until my kid is home safe. Agree with everything you say here, WY. Are we twins?

    I have always thought this was the most bizarre reaction in this whole mystifying case. How the hell can she sit there without jumping up out of her chair after hearing all the commotion (we've found her, or whatever)? I don't get it unless its like I think. She knew the plan and knew exactly what happened. She knew she was dead.
     
  11. fly

    fly Member

    no search

    I've said this before, but I've never found it odd that the Ramseys didn't turn the house upside down looking for JBR. Why should they? They had a ransom note saying she'd been kidnapped. Kidnapped means taken out of the house. Unless there was some reason to doubt the validity of the note, there was no real reason to search the house until the purpose of the search was to look for evidence about the means of entry, the identity of the kidnapper, etc. If the Ramseys were distraught about their kidnapped daughter, looking for evidence of the kidnapper probably would take a back seat to getting the police involved.

    When a pet goes missing in the house, it makes sense to check the house - at least at first. You have no reason to assume the pet has left the house - barring on open door or window.
     
  12. Camper

    Camper Banned

    Hmmmmmmm

    Yes, that note was so important to them wasn't it, NOT. Since they did not relay the most IMPORTANT PART OF THAT NOTE to the Police, that their baby would be beheaded IF IF IF IF they talked to a (speaking of dogs) STRAY dog.

    So in closing, ahem, IF they were so moved by the presence of "The NOTE" why did they NOT read it and obey IT.

    To not even call out her name when they had the note in hand, is strange also, how did they know when the note was left, maybe the kidnapper WAS STILL IN THE HOUSE. They had ample ball bats, go get one and LOOK AROUND.

    =======<><

    WY, I used to turn on the light directly down the hall from our bedroom, and I could roll over and see if the light was on or off, and note the time it was, on my bedroom nightstand clock, so that I could tell when ALL my children had arrived home. The last one in would turn that light out. We lived in the country in a remote and quiet area, so often I could hear their car come down our little road as well.

    If the light was still on at a shocking hour, I would awaken my husband and we would proceed to worry together.
     
  13. JR

    JR FFJ Senior Member

    IMHO

    If this happened to one of my children or granchildren, I would cradle the child and beg someone to help her, start CPR myself and so on were it not obvious the child was dead (and yes, rigor is pretty obvious at that point.) Were it obvious I would probably go bezerk but still cradle my child and beg to know who did this and probably make a number of personal threats against the *(^%#$@$# that s/he was going to wish they had never laid eyes on my child by the time I was done with him or her. Believe me, they would not be idle threats either!
     
  14. AK

    AK Member

    On finding the note

    I wouldn't have gone through the house looking for the missing child, but I sure would have looked for the way the kidnapper got into and out of the home. I wouldn't have needed to call the cops either -- they would have heard my screaming when I found that broken window.

    I can't fault the Ramseys for mucking up the evidence that day -- they, like most of the world, weren't trained in forensics until way after their case hit the news. They will be more careful when they kill their next child.
     
  15. 1000 Sparks

    1000 Sparks Active Member

    Fly

    You are right as far as a parent figuring the child was not in the house, but..wouldn't you be running around looking for clues?

    Yelling, they took her from the bedroom (hair ties all over the floor)... why is this this way or that..her blanket is missing... etc...

    I don't think the average parent would sit...you'd feel like you had to do something..anything, but not just sit there. I'd be running frantic, asking questions, re-reading the ransom note..etc.

    Patsy just sat there cause she knew they would be bringing her dead baby up those stairs sometime..

    Also, why was Patsy looking through splade fingers at the police?????
     
  16. Zan

    Zan FFJ Senior Member

    >>>Also, why was Patsy looking through splade fingers at the police?????<<<

    I think she stole that scene from the movie Ruthless People..just as she did some of the lines in her rn....JMO
     
  17. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    That's basically

    what I meant - not tear the house apart looking for her (although I can see myself not believing she had really being taken out of the house, not believing that note), but looking for how the kidnappers got in the house and her out of the house.

    Okay, yes, I would have still searched the house for her - just to make sure for myself that she was not still there. I would not have accepted that note at face value. But, then, that's just me.
     
  18. Gaiabetsy

    Gaiabetsy Member

    Or

    if I truly believed what the ransom note said about beheading my daughter, I most certainly would NOT HAVE called a bunch of friends and the police over.

    In my case, I think I would have wanted to think about what to do for awhile before making any hasty decisions. After all, the note plainly said NOT TO CALL THE POLICE or anyone else, yet that's the first thing they did. It just does not compute!!
     
  19. Freebird

    Freebird Active Member

    Exactly Giabetsy

    I would of had to think on calling police also. For that little amount of money, I really don't know if I would have called or just waited to see if they called and maybe even offered the kidnappers a million dollars and promises of not reporting it anything to insure the safety and return of my child.
     
  20. imon128

    imon128 Banned

    I, too, would have thought long and hard about even being NEAR a phone, when that note said you're being watched, monitored, etc., don't talk to anybody. I'd still be sitting there by that dam*ed phone, rather than kill my child. Color me silly, but......
     
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