911 Call Lies

That's a good point Spade. There are a couple problems here. A judge would not even let Burke take the 5th because he was not culpable. However, after Burke turned 10, if he lied to the police, he would be culpable for obstruction of justice and probably interfering with an investigation. So he would be allowed to take the 5th in some circumstances but not others.

 

I know the Ramseys themselves turned SOME phone records over to LE, a year later and ONLY for the month of December, 1996, I believe I read.

But one of those cell phone records was blank. Thomas talked about it in his book. LE wasn't allowed to see the previous months or any after that December, but Thomas asked the phone company employee if there were calls on the previous months and was told yes.

So if that's all the grand jury got, still the same problem.

Or are you saying the grand jury subpoenaed the phone records for the home, office, cell phones, and possibly car phones OTHER than the ones the Ramseys turned over? If that's so, then WHICH records are you saying weren't available and to whom? I'm confused.

I'm not sure what the law would be on the prosecutors' phone records, except that some evidence would be required to subpoena Hofstrom's and Wise's PERSONAL phone records, it seems to me.

As for Bynum and Morgan, I believe that would fall under attorney/client privilege. They have legal protection from even revealing who their clients are, without the client's permission. Their phone records would fall under the protection of attorney/client privilege, would they not, and not just for any calls to or from the Ramseys, but for other clients who would be revealed if there were calls to/from them?

I'm not sure, maybe I've gotten it wrong. Perhaps you can explain it better, Spade, and thanks in advance.

 

The White House? Unbelievable! Why? How can any case be tried honestly if there is a backup from the White House, Spade? Are we now getting to the true story? Should you be watching your own back and I'm not kidding?

 

Um...the leak of the 911 call is too referenced in Steve's book along with the information that all was mum about the tape until it had to be handed over to Hunter & Co. And then............we all knew. I will be back with page number and transcription.

PS - BS - LOL - did you realize that your hat would end up reduced to those two special letters???? :bsflag:

:luv:
RR

 

Page 279 of Steve's book......

"Sargeant Wickman finally gave the DA's office our long-help secrets about the enhanced 911 telephone call that recorded young Burke's voice although his parents insisted he had been asleeep and about the grave-survellience operations in Atlanta. Pete Hofstrom rested his chin on his chest, staring, while Trip DeMuth (Trippin DaMouth) sat silently, "stunned" that we had done this without their knowledge, Wickman said."

During thier conversation, Wickman used a term from my warrant for the covert surveillance in Atlanta, which had been to look for any "suspicious grave-site visitor." Within a week we got a callfrom Patsy Ramsey's sister, Pam, who wanted to report a "suspicious grave-site visitor." The exact term from my sealed warrant had found its way into Pam Paugh's lexicon. We simply could not trust the DA's office to keep anything a secret."

 

We've all had cell phones in my family for a long time.
I don't know my phone number, or my daughter's phone number. I never call myself and usually when I call my daughter, it's from the cell phone where the number is programmed in (so I don't need to know her number).
I do know my husband's number, because I will call him sometimes from work or whatever, where it's easier to use a phone than to go in my purse and pull out a cell phone.

If she bought John's first cell phone and this one that she bought for him, but ended up keeping, the cell phone contract would have been in her name, even if she was buying it for him (whoever is the person there entering into the contract is the one whose name it was in). You don;t just buy the phone (or didn't at that time), you purchased a plan with a certain number of minutes. She seems to know very little about the process for someone who actually purchased the phone. (and if I had gotten my husband one phone and then he 'lost' it, I don't think I would get him another one for Christmas).

 

I think the same could be said whether or not Burke did anything.
If he did something that was connected with/caused her death, they certainly would not want to go there.
BUT, the same applies if he was not involved and the parents don't want him questioned out of fear he will say something about things he saw or heard that incriminates them.

Also, according to the Bonita Papers, after JB's body was found and the family was going to the Fernie's

So, sending him to the Whites that morning did not prevent the police from talking to him. When John and Patsy sent him over there, they had no idea whether the police might go over there and talk to him. That didn't seem to be a concern that I can see. Their concern was getting him out of the house, which I think was to avoid having him there when the body was found (they obviously were not concerned with him being kidnapped by the 'foreign faction').
Also, in the Bonita Papers

So, maybe his family was concerned about how he might express himself. It's possible that in the course of checking out his 'difficuties' that the family did know more about Burke than has come up (which may have made the family concerned about 'going there'). Motor skills problems, specifically related to writing are common in people with Asperger Syndrome, which is part of where that came up as a possibility in discussions for Burke.
He also was interviewed by a Psychologist soon after the death, again from the Bonita Papers:

If they were so worried about Burke having 'done the crime' and talking to anyone, I think they would have figured out a way to avoid this interview.
Some of his answers in this interview have also made people think of Asperger's Syndrome.
One of the problems in this case is that John and Patsy deny everything, even things that are "normal" and they are defensive about everything they are asked about. They are evasive even about things like whether they owned the pineapple bowl and spoon, where there was probably another 7 just like them in the kitchen cabinets and drawers. That makes it really difficult to know if they are being defensive about something because it's important or because they are just paranoid.

 

What was the source for this information? Where did Bonita get it? It does sound like Burke had some signs of something like Asberger's, which might explain some of the detachment and unconcern, since they don't necessarily have the same emotional attachment that neurotypical people have. Even on the other thread where it's said that he would get upset if someone tried to include themselves in a conversation he was having, that is not necessarily him being rude or having a temper tantrum. People with Asberger's can have very strict parameters for social interaction and have a hard time handling unpredicability, so if they are out of control of the situation, they can get angry and seem rude. They don't understand the social rules that we all pick up by osmosis as we grow up, and can seem extremely rude unless you understand that they simply "don't get it."

I wonder about the dictionary in the house being turned to the "incest" page - as if that was a clue that someone in the house wanted to leave without saying anything. I wonder if that was Burke, exposing a secret that he couldn't possibly talk about. I wonder if JR intimidated both Patsy and Burke into keeping the secret for the rest of their lives. I wonder a lot of things which will probably never get answered.

Heymom

 

Heymom

deleted by spade

 

"If that was as angry as Burke EVER got at JonBenet, then something is very very wrong"

I'll say. Every sibling fights with another one. I know!

 

I see. I did wonder why none of the paralegals in any of these offices ever gave anything up. I guess one did. Did she know the nephew was going to do that or did he do it without her permission?

Heymom

 

Heymom

deleted by spade.

 

Hi Punisher,

I've posted this many times. Burke Ramsey's beeping is characteristic of Tourette's Syndrome.

My brother's grandson has Tourette's, and he beeped in between ordinary speech, and he hated his younger sister with a passion, and couldn't be left alone with her. I was with my brother's family when this youngster was around the same age as Burke Ramsey, going on ten. It was unbelievable if you have never experienced it, and he could be violent with his younger sister. He even bulldozed me out the way because I was walking beside his mother and talking to her. He was jealous. However, having said all of the above, we haven't heard enough about Burke at all.

"Don't go there, Pal! You're going down the wrong road!" Words to that effect from Patsy.

 

Elle_1

deleted by spade

 

I believe that came from Steve Thomas' book.
I don't think Burke had Tourette's Syndrome, I think he was just immitating a video game. Tourette's Syndrome is not something you can turn on and off, and nobody like LHP, or Judith Phillips, who knew Burke before the crime, ever mentioned it. The Ramseys would have also made a big deal about it when the police wanted to question Burke - it would have made a good excuse.

 

Yes, it's in Steve's book, in the part where Burke has his interview with Suzanne Bernhard. Page 109,

"The boy remembered his sister as being "nice" but added, "Sometimes she bugged me. JonBenet would tickle him and rummage through his desk to find candy and baseball cards. Bernhard asked how he was dealing with his sister's death, and Burke replied, "I kind of forget about it. I just kind of go..." and he lapsed into sounds similar to Nintendo beeps."

I think he was trying to say he sort of "zones out," or tries to program his mind not to think about it. I don't think that sounds like Tourette's. If he'd had that kind of outburst, the therapist would have noted it. Under stress, Tourette's usually gets much more intense.

Heymom

 

That's using beeping as a sound effect and was under his control. That's a lot different situation that Tourette's.

 

Yep, I agree. Burke was saying something without using words. He might not have been able to describe exactly what he was doing in his mind or emotions and the Nintendo noises fit the bill. My hubby does that all the time. Noises or gestures. He doesn't have Tourette's.

Heymom

 

Personally, I have NEVER heard the enhanced tape that others swear that they had heard on Geraldo (or elsewhere). While I do NOT dispute other's claims to have seen/heard the tape, I DO know enough about "eyewitness accounts" to understand that well meaning eyewitnesses can be mistaken.

I've watched this argument ... in silence ... for many years now. I've Googled my butt to the bone trying to find evidence that THE enhanced tape was EVER aired. I've never found evidence ... EVIDENCE ... that the enhanced tape ever made it to the airwaves.

At this point, I have to assume that Spade (... I think it was Spade ... ) who suggested that the "enhanced tape" might have been part of the GeraldTheHo Mock Trial ... or some similar re-enactment.

Minds play funny tricks on us. As with optical illusions, our minds often see only what they WANT to see, We've ALL read and/or heard secondhand accounts from those hearing the tapes ... and at the time, they seemed like the smoking gun. I'm thinking that what we have seen and heard was MOST LIKELY a vivid re-enactment.


There is only one way to set this all straight ... and that is to get an unequivical ANSWER to the question. That is ... go to the SOURCE and DEMAND ANSWERS. That means taking LEGAL action ... IF necessary.

Mary Lacy has PUBLICALLY STATED that ALL evidence in this case has been made/released to the public in some fashion. That being the case, a COURT of JUSTICE should be willing to release those parts of the public record which are in widespread dispute ... like the enhanced tape.

We NEED to nail this down.

Look ... IF Burke's voice is heard on those tapes, then the case against the Ramseys is SOLIDIFIED. It's a potential LYNCHPIN in this case ... once removed, the entire Ramsey case falls apart.

We NEED to nail down this issue.

... We MUST have whatever EVIDENCE that may be on the 911 call tape RELEASED to us ... the Public.


Sorry if I've ruffled feathers ... but as an outside observer on this issue ... we've got NUTHIN'!


...YumYum

 

Steve Thomas "JonBenét - HB (Courtesy of Little - FFJ)

I still think it was an unusual thing for a child to do beep when he was being interviewed.