911 Call Lies

Yum Yum

Since it appears that you don't want to talk about Gsquared in PM I will give you a brief synopsis:

1. Gsquared went to Lin Wood with a lie that Richard Gooding and I had fabricated the BDI story and had admitted it to her.

2. Gsquared posted that my family and Fleet White's family had been sexually abusing children for generations and that Nancy Krebs' story proved it.

My 'relationship' with her is non-existent. She is scum.

What is your relationship with Gsquared?

 

Post #6 in this thread

deleted by spade

 

BS - it is equally confusing to me that some posters demand that the call was never heard before. Were you in charge of the custody of the tape and never told us??? That would be the only way I would understand your insistance over saying Never! And.......Steve's did say "as far as He knew."

I Know Darlie...........I know Patsy...........and I know that it was all Ramsey. You break my heart with such doubt! :fg:

 

From post #7 on this thread

"The Newsweek report said District Judge Roxanne Bailin ordered District Attorney Alex Hunter to turn over a copy prior to Burke's testimony. The article reportedly says Bailin ordered the tape to be turned over because Colorado law allows grand jury witnesses to see copies of earlier statements."

 

BluesStrat

deleted by spade

 

From post #12 on this thread

deleted by spade

 

Thank you Barbara, Tricia, and others who don't try to tell the many people who heard this enhanced tape played they're don't know what they heard or didn't hear because it's easier to believe that something so strange can't have happened in this case.

Lord knows, NOTHING STRANGE has EVER happened in this case.

You know, this is one of the silliest damn arguments I've ever had on the forums, and it's still being argued.

I know what I heard. I know what Geraldo said it was. I knew at the time what I was hearing. What I had no idea was happening was that I'd be called a liar by people about it for years because they didn't hear it and it was some kind of anomaly in crime news history.

I don't know why anyone on the many forums didn't hear it. I don't know why it was pulled, on whose threats or legal manipulations. Years ago I called in to the company that sold tapes of past shows to try to locate the tape and buy a copy. The person I spoke with spent an hour trying to find it for me, but it wasn't there. I admit that. I have never said any differently.

But I have to wonder at the arrogance of people who dismiss the intelligence and reliability of posters who have proven themselves not to be wacko wingnuts in years of posting about this case and state flat out that we don't know what we heard.

Add in all the sheer insanity of every damn thing that came and comes out of Boulder in this case, and that it makes me even madder to be called a liar by newbies here who don't know what they're talking about.

So like I said, you go on and join "a Michigan woman" in attacking those of us who have never stated one thing but the truth: we heard the enhanced 911 tape played and if you don't like it or doubt it, fine, I don't care. But don't try to come up with some stupid imaginative way to confirm YOUR decision to think that so many people who tell you they heard it were fooled and it must be because of some OTHER conspiracy. Why don't you just go ahead and call us liars outright and let's throw down. No need to pull punches if you can't accept the simple truth: the insanity surrounding anything that comes out of the rape of this case by Boulder LE is standard and nothing...NOTHING...that happens after Karr's arrest in Thailand and luxury flight back to Boulder will ever surprise me again.

In the meantime, BS and Yum Yum, why don't you both just :kmg:

:fg:

 

This issue about the 911 tapes is and always been a hot issue with some posters. I did not see the program so many posters have referred to, but there have been MANY posters who state, irrefutably, that they heard the ENHANCED tape on one of the talk programs. Some didn't remember which program it was, but they knew what they heard.

While a jury might not place much credibility on one person's recollections of that program, they would take notice and probably believe it if 10 or 20 people said they heard the unenhanced tape. I have watched various posters get slammed over the years for taking an immovable stance on this issue, and I have taken into account my belief in each of these posters' own credibility. KK saw the program. RR saw the program. Many others whom I consider credible saw the program. None of them has backed down in spite of all the doubting Thomases.

When I saw that RR and KK stated they saw the program and they knew what they saw and heard, I believed them. I still believe them. So, if I believe them, I also have to believe that someone did slip a copy of the original enhanced tape to Geraldo, and he did play it on his show. I also believe that he was threatened by someone in power and told to remove that segment from his show and return the tape to LE. And, that's exactly what happened. All references to the tape were deleted, both from the transcript of the show but also edited from the film, itself.

I believe KK and I believe RR, even if Spade had not said he and his wife also saw the show. I believe the others who said they heard the tape. None of these people have any agenda regarding the enhanced tape - why would they lie? And, none of these people is stupid. They are smart enough to know the difference between the real thing and a reproduction.

 

Spade ... I had read the PM late last night and postponed responding cuz I was busy at the time with something else. I was hoping to respond in the morn ... but alas.

I only asked about Gsquared becuz I had a vague memory of an association between the two of you at some point. I don't remember the details ... but I seem to recollect that G2 appeared on the scene with what seemed to be "insider" information ... and at a later point, you joined the discussions confirming some of G2's reportage. To moi, you seemed to be working as a team (of sorts) but the association always seemed a little confusing and uneven to me. So I was curious.

As for the Nasty Krebs ordeal ... thankfully I somehow missed G2's accusations regarding you and Fleet. I bailed from JW when the Nasty Krebs gang took over control of the JW forum. Those were dark days on the forums.

My relationship with G2? LOL ... innocent bystander ;D

Thanks for the response, Spade. I didn't expect that my query might open a can o' worms. Sorry.


...YumYum

 

Thank you, WY.

And might I add, that NONE OF US knew each other even existed when we heard it. I knew NOTHING of online forums, very little about the Internet, and also had no idea I'd seen some "forbidden" evidence until people started trying to tell me I did not see/hear this.

And might I add, I was not on drugs, alcohol, might have had an occasional aspirin.

Why wasn't it major news picked up and put on the front page by the AP? I have no idea. Far as I remember, it was a slow news day altogether, as the other topics that night were so boring I turned off the show.

Maybe it was because the enhanced tape is really NOT that clear. Neither Geraldo not his guests could actually make out the words that were being said, though they had a transcript of what was "thought" to be the words, which they put on the bottom of the screen. It was very anti-climactic, in fact, because about all it proved to me is that there were two voices in the background of Patsy's call, one obviously a deep voice like a man's, the other a high pitched voice like a child's. The deep voice sounded "stern" or tense, while the childlike voice sounded pleading. The pattern of words could be what was in the transcript, but on my cheap tv speakers, and hearing what was obviously a copy of the enhanced tape, I could not say, and neither could anyone on the show.

And honestly, I remember thinking at the time that the guests on the show had little to say about the tape. It was altogether a boring segment.

When I heard Michael Kane tell Lin wood on Dan Abrams' show that he'd listen to the tape with Wood in Boulder, and that there was "something" on the tape, but stopping short of stating who or what, it fits right in with what I saw. I figured Kane wasn't going to set himself up to be SUED by Wood by saying it was John and Burke, because there are defense arguments to be made about the enhanced tape, obviously, as it was a very laboured process in teasing out those voices. We've already seen and heard those arguments put forth, haven't we?

But again and again and again and again, it's NOT the important issue here. The issue is DOES THE TAPE EXIST AND ARE JOHN'S AND BURKE'S VOICES ON IT? There are MANY MORE CREDIBLE PEOPLE who have the credentials and the pedigree who have stated that they heard the enhanced tape and the voices are there, however they got there and whomever you believe them to be. That's the only issue as I see it, and those of us who DID hear it on TV only said so because of the RST who never stops putting out DISINFORMATION that the voices are not there.

THEY ARE.

 

YIKES! Calm down! I never called ANYONE a liar, or anything approaching that.

... in fact, I've gone out of my way to state that I don't doubt anyone's integrity on this issue. The simple fact of the matter is that there is NO TRACE of hard evidence on the internet that the Aerospace tape was ever aired. Let's be honest here ... purging every trace of such evidence on that important an issue goes well beyond what we have seen before ... even in Boulderistan.

I look on this issue from the perspective of a juror. The accounts of eyewitnesses conflicts with other available information ... and hence, as a juror, neither argument would carry weight in my overall deliberations. I would discount BOTH sides of the argument simply becuz there is nothing definitive either way on the issue.

At the same time ... as a juror ... I BELIEVE that Steve Thomas and others heard the Aerospace tape ... and I BELIEVE his testimony. Therefore, whether the Aerospace tape was ever aired to the public on TV is irrelevant. It has no evidentiary importance one way or the other.


That said, I believe that it WOULD be interesting to nail down DEFINITIVELY what happened here. If all traces were somehow PURGED from the internet, then that is an important story in itself. Who was behind the effort ... and why? What threats were made ... and by whom?

As BluesStrat correctly points out, the enhanced tape was a HUGE news item ... and it was widespread knowledge well before the Geraldo show. News and media outlets would have been scouring the countryside for more on the story ... and one source that they would have looked to would be "the program of record" on the Ramsey case ... the Geraldo Show. Therefore, other news and media outlets would have been monitoring the Geraldo Show for breaking information.

And THIS is the the part that really has me scratching my noodle ... IF Geraldo was FORCED to remove all traces of the airing AFTER IT HAD AIRED, wouldn't that have become a HUGE media story?!!! Of course it would. Yet there is not a single peep to be heard. How can that be explained?


One last thing. I don't see how Burke's age comes into play here. Why redact (for legal reasons) his taped voice while leaving the taped transcript of what he allegedly said on tape remain unaltered? I see no material legal difference between a text transcript of the tape, and the tape itself.


I hope that Tricia has an opportunity to discuss this issue with Geraldo himself someday so that this can be put to rest.

Now ... STOP ACCUSING ME OF CALLING PEOPLE LIARS!!! :rs:


...YumYum

 

RR, sorry about the heart... !ouch:

For the record, I have NEVER doubted that Burke and John's voices appear on the 911 tape. Several times I have pointed out here that the copy of the tape Lacy released to Wood contains a 4-second gap at the end of it PRECISELY where the transcript says Burke and John are supposed to be heard. There is NO REASON for that gap to exist except that Lacy redacted that section of the tape to protect the Ramseys. And yes, I am well aware of Burke's attorney receiving a copy of the tape because he appears on it.

As far as Geraldo playing the enhanced copy of the tape, YumYum and I seem to be at odds with several people here because we are looking for SOME TYPE of supporting evidence that event happened. Not one single news report exists confirming that tape was played. More importantly, if Geraldo had a copy to play it was obviously LEAKED to him. With all the finger-pointing that went on over leaks, it would have been a HUGE deal if that evidence had been given away. Nobody ever pointed the finger at anyone else about leaking it--not Thomas, Hunter, Wood...anyone.

Nobody HERE is calling anyone a "liar". A few of us would just like to see SOME supporting evidence that people are not simply "mistaken" about what they think they heard.

 

OK, fess up! Which one of you case junkies is "AOL user 59920"?....LOL

While trying to find any info on the Geraldo playing of the 911 tape, I came across this web page:
http://fakerake.com/2006/137/exploring-the-aol-search-logs-part-6-jonbenet-ramsey-obsession/

Someone is REALLY into searching for Ramsey case info, including "did geraldo play the ramsey 911 tape before it was out".

Anyway, I thought it was interesting and had never seen that page before. Sorry if this was already discussed...

 

Isn't this discussion irrelevant in light of the admission by the Ramseys that Burke indeed was up and out of bed, or at least awake, while the phone call was being made? They admitted that they were wrong (had lied) when they said (swore) that he was asleep all morning. So the tape was right in the first place, Burke and John Ramsey were on the tape, the whole case needs re-examining.

WE WANT A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR!!

:verdict: :tsktsk:

Heymom

 

This controversy has been going on for a very long time. The issue of whether or not it was played on Geraldo is secondary to the FACT that there IS, IN EXISTENCE, the 911 tape with what has been reported as probably John AND Burke's voice. It has been documented through the testimony of Steve Thomas and LE as well as Aerospace. So we know it exists. Burke's lawyer was granted a copy of the tape which absolutely MUST have something incriminating on it.

For all we know, the argument by Burke's lawyer could have been that the voices are not clear, and it could have been extraneous noise from elsewhere...or...that because the voices are not clear, they might be from a radio....who knows? I'm just guessing. The point is that voices are there.

That is why we heard that he was in fact, awake, and "pretending" to be asleep and the infamous admission by Patsy and John. They HAD to do that because BURKE IS HEARD ON THE TAPE! HELLO? COMMON SENSE!

Why in the world would they volunteer that information and make themselves look even worse if they didn't HAVE to???

Okay, with that out of the way, I am far from a naive person and while I always knew that money can buy acquittals, dismissals, and kinder, gentler treatment for criminals, I was surprised to see how blatant it could be in Boulder and go unchecked. Having said that, while it doesn't really matter to the actual investigation, I absolutely believe that this tape was aired and that all the people who stand firm that they heard it, heard it. I also absolutely believe that there are plenty more people who also heard it and just don't want to argue the point and fight about it, so they stay silent about it.

I am also far from a paranoid person, but knowing the power of Haddon and the others, I have no problem assuming that phone calls were made, Geraldo and the network were told exactly what to do to erase the existence of that segment.

It certainly could have resulted not only in the life altering punishments that have been metered out to those who crossed Haddon; look at the Whites, McReynolds, the Pughs AND a young girl who was spoken about on the world wide internet as a possible sexual partner with her father in porno videos (btw, I wish very bad things on those responsible for that cruel, mean atrocity; dont' even get me started on that). Look at Miller, look at Helgoth, look at the people whose whole lives have been forever connected to this case. My heart just breaks for Fleet White and his family for what they did to him with Nancy Krebs. I hope he lives long enough to see punishment for what they did to him and his family.

Geraldo, if indeed he obtained "evidence" not permitted for public consumption, it could also have resulted in criminal charges, adding more scandal to Geraldo's name.

No, I fully agree with WY; because in THIS case, it is an open secret that you don't **** around with powerful people like Haddon and his cronies in LE if you want to live happily ever after. They don't even hide it well. So yes, I do believe that threats and powerful people made those minutes in time "disappear" just like in sci-fi movies.

AND I also believe that some of the crime scene evidence (photos, etc.) that is coming from the RST has been doctored and tampered with.

I will stand with those posters who say they heard it. There is no reason to lie and it doesn't change any fact one way or the other. There is an enhanced tape with John and Burke's voice on it.

For the record, IF it ever is stated that the original tape is non existent or destroyed/lost, or now DOES NOT have the voices on it, I will assume that that option was bought and paid for as well

I have come to analyze this case in this fashion, because it is Boulder, not because I am a critic of LE or DAs. I think corruption is everywhere, but in Boulder, they aren't even discreet and it boggles my mind.

I find Boulder and its lack of outrage by its citizens something out of the Twilight Zone; a really "special" place.

 

They HAD TO sooner or later Barbara. You better believe they are aware of the enhanced 911 copy that was given to Burke's attorney. I'm sure they heard it in Burke's attorney's office.

What John Ramsey did was lay the groundwork in case they ever got confronted by the 911 tape in court or under oath. He can simply say, "we made a mistake - we corrected it in the press when we realized our error". It doesn't get them off the hook for lieing to the police, but it defuses the bombshell of being caught red handed as a liar in whatever situation it was presented.

 

My sentiments exactly. Boulder is so brash with their corruption, they're starting to make New Jersey look like a Sunday School class. Honestly, they see no problem with their DA arresting an obviously innocent man based on a scam-artist professor in cahoots with a discredited private investigator who shares case evidence and the worst thing is ... THE DA, PROFESSOR AND PI ARE ALL PERSONAL FRIENDS WITH THE MAIN SUSPECTS IN THE CASE WHO ADVISED THEM ON THE ARREST!

This is SOP in Boulder, and no one blinks an eye. It's just business as usual the next day. No outrage, no changes in procedures or personal. It's unfreakin'believable. :banghead:

 

I agree with you.
I have a nephew with Asperger's Syndrome and I can imagine him saying/acting the same way if he was in a situation like that. An example of a similar phrase he used when he came to our home was "That will do nicely" when I showed him the room he would be sleeping in.

 

I wanted to quote this info and bump it up so when the swamp crew reads here they wake up to the fact that John and Patsy LIED to the police about Burke being awake that morning.

 

BluesStrat,

I think the Ramseys did a great deal of talking to Burke when he was awake, telling him it would be safer for him to say he was asleep. It is easy to frighten a nine year old (almost ten), and tell him he could be taken away from them by the police, for this-n-that reason. Speculation on my part, but it could have happened this way (?).