A second look at some old photos

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by questfortrue, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. questfortrue

    questfortrue Member

    There is nothing new under the sun - Ecclesiastes

    I know so much has been discussed before, and these photos are nothing new. But as I was reviewing them some additional thoughts occurred. Perhaps another look at these photos will trigger someone else’s ideas or help confirm others’ conclusions on the crime. I tried to mute the background on the one photo, since it still is something we all hate to see, and as I only wanted to show the drape of the necklace chain.

    The first photo is of the necklace on JonBenet. I focused on the necklace chain, simply because investigators said that it was likely JonBenet was on her stomach when she was strangled and died, and I wondered how it transpired that the long chain rolled up with this ligature. In the first photo is the picture of JB on Christmas morning and the necklace chain hangs quite low on her. In the second photo with the ligature the chain hangs loose, behind/to the side of her neck. What I wondered is if someone pulled the chain to the back before the ligature was applied. It did not seem that this would be the action of a young person (or an intruder) who would think to pull the chain to the back, if it was done intentionally. Just my thoughts on this.


  2. questfortrue

    questfortrue Member

    . . .Continued from previous post. The next photos are of JR's hand and a ski gloved hand. First an introduction from James Kolar’s book:
    But there were still other trace fibers that had yet to be accounted for. Brown cotton fibers had been found on four items closely associated with the body of JonBenét and implements used in her murder. Lab technicians thought the fibers similar to a pair of cotton work gloves.

    To give visuals for the glove discussion I’ve found a photo of JR’s hand and one of his hand in a ski glove. Nails appear to be nicely manicured as befits an executive. As the interviewers questions reveal, they must have wondered about JR owning gloves when doing work related activities. Of course we know that JR worked on his boats, possibly gardened with someone only known as the “blond bi***hâ€. (The gardening reference was from the NE: “Paulette warned (Patsy) about a family friend who was getting too close to John, and the handsome executive was even helping her with her gardening.†Paulette told Patsy, ‘You’d better watch out for John and that girl,’ revealed the insider.â€). Only NE conjecture, of course, but interesting in light of the questioning about gloves.



    The year 2000 interview in Atlanta with Patsy was noteworthy in looking at the interviewers’ questions about gloves. I know this is just a small wind on some embers, but it seemed worth reviewing because of how the interview unfolded as LW virtually sat on his client to prevent her from coming up with the wrong answer. The interview with Levin, Kane, Beckner, LW and Patsy:

    1 Q. Did you own gardening gloves?
    2 A. I don't think so, no.
    3 Q. Do you recall ever seeing in your
    4 house brown kind of work gloves, cotton?
    5 A. Brown cotton? John had --
    6 don't remember brown work gloves.
    7 Q. Can you picture what I am talking
    8 about?
    9 MR. WOOD: Do you have a photo
    10 maybe or something?
    11 MR. LEVIN: No, I, we, we don't.
    12 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Have you ever
    13 seen, they are kind of a --
    14 MR. WOOD: No, I don't think so.
    15 You got to do better than that. You can
    16 conjure up a zillion different brown work
    17 gloves.
    18 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Cotton brown work
    19 gloves.
    20 A. Cotton brown work gloves?
    21 Q. Costs you about three bucks in
    22 the grocery store. I am not creating any
    23 images for you?
    24 A. No.
    25 Q. Okay.
    1 MR. WOOD: Me either.
    2 MR. LEVIN: We will just leave
    3 that.
    4 CHIEF BECKNER: Before we go too
    5 far, for clarification for me, when you were
    6 asked about wearing garden gloves, you said
    7 not usually, I believe. Does that mean
    8 sometimes you would?
    9 THE WITNESS: I don't remember
    10 doing that. I mean, I do wear them now
    11 because now I am wearing these funny
    12 fingernails, I don't want to get them messed
    13 up, but I don't think I was doing it then.
    14 So I don't, I don't ever remember -- I am
    15 not a big gardener, so I didn't have all of
    16 the trappings, you know, all of that stuff.
    17 So I do not remember having any gardening
    18 gloves.
    19 Q. (By Mr. Kane) You started to say
    20 that John had. John had what?
    21 MR. WOOD: Let's see exactly what
    22 she said.
    23 MR. KANE: Lin, she said John had
    24 30 seconds ago. What did John have?
    25 MR. WOOD: Excuse me. The
    1 question was, do you recall ever seeing in
    2 your house brown kind of work gloves, cotton,
    3 and you went brown cotton, and you said John
    4 had, and you said I don't remember brown.
    5 All I want to do is put it in the context
    6 of what she said. Do you remember saying
    7 that?
    8 THE WITNESS: Yes.
    9 MR. WOOD: Now, Mr. Kane, go
    10 right ahead.
    11 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Now that you've
    12 had time to think about it for a minute,
    13 what did John have?
    14 A. What kind of gloves did he have?
    15 Q. What were you about to say? You
    16 said John had.
    17 A. John had ski gloves.

    18 Q. (By Mr. Levin) In addition to
    19 his ski gloves, Mrs. Ramsey, do you recall
    20 John having any kind of work gloves that he
    21 might have kept in the car if he had to
    22 change a tire or anything like that?
    23 A. No.
    24 Q. Just for clarification, for the
    25 record, when you say no, does that mean no,
    1 you don't recall whether he did or didn't or
    2 no, he did not own any work gloves?
    3 A. I don't recall that he did. You
    4 will have to ask him if he did.​

    All this, jmo and thoughts, of course
  3. cynic

    cynic Member

    It’s difficult to say whether the chain may or may not have simply been inadvertently snagged during the process of bringing the ligature around the front of the neck.
    Also, the process of initially applying the ligature may have involved a different positioning of JonBenet with the final tightening involving a face-down JonBenet – perhaps?
    In terms of the “unexplained†brown fibers, or any other “unexplained†fibers: Between what was never collected and what may have been carted off by good ol’ Pam lies the answer to the fiber issue.
    It’s doubtful that John was much of a gardener, but if circumstances were present where there was a blond in need of assistance, well, what kind of “southern†gentleman would he be if he didn’t help her/himself?
  4. questfortrue

    questfortrue Member

    Oh, my . . .
    You mean Patsy might have engaged her own sister to become an accessory after the fact, as good ol' Pam unwitted. . .(I mean :D) . . unwittingly may have removed evidence in a homicide investigation? That bag of old clothes she removed wasn’t just some items for Goodwill? Now I’m shocked!
  5. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    What gave LW the opportunity to :(:(:(:( down the line of questioning about the gloves was the constant reference to "work gloves". The brown cotton fibers (which I have also seen referred to as tan) were never definitely sourced to work gloves. They may just as easily have been those ski gloves or something else. There is no proof they were gloves at all, really.
    I do recall discussion about the tan cotton body of the American Girl dolls possibly being the source for the cotton fibers. Those dolls also had a vinyl head that was attached to the stuffed cotton body by a nylon cord. I am nit suggesting that the doll's cord had any connection to the garrote cord, BUT- the dolls' manufacturer (the Pleasant Doll Company) recommended that parents put a piece of duct tape over the cord knot at the back of the doll's neck if the knot interfered with brushing the doll's hair or fastening her clothes. If someone needed a piece of duct tape and knew about that doll (which a parent would but an intruder would not) that could be a source for the tape. I don't believe police ever tested the doll against the fibers. Nor do I believe LE ever tested the fibers against a pair of cotton work gloves. These also could have been purchased at McGuckin's Hardware. Or if JR was into gardening, mystery blonde or not, these types of gloves work for that too- most gardening gloves are made for women, and I could see men who garden as using these cotton work gloves instead.
  6. Elle

    Elle Member

    Good research

    Thank you questfortrue,cynic and DeeDee for your interesting posts. Although I don't research this case any more, I am still interested in it and I like to keep up with what you younger ones are posting. I know it takes a long time to do research for this case. I am sorry this little girl's killer hasn't been brought to justice. I wish you all the best with the rest of your research. Keep up the good work!
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