Arms in rigor: Warning! Autopsy photos!

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by koldkase, Dec 1, 2010.

  1. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    It never hurts to use a copyright note, but professionals know copyright laws very well, and anyone who goes to the trouble to "steal" an idea does, too. "Ignorance" doesn't hold up in court anyway.

    I've been researching this stuff for years, Elle, as far as Lockheed. I don't post much about it because it's a topic that goes dead in the water, for the most part. There's no way to prove any of this, for one thing. So I make sure I state it's just my thoughts, opinions, etc., as I'm only working off of pure theory based in logic and the stunning revelation Thomas gave us that Hunter obstructed the routine collection of evidence by LE.

    But it's a conspiracy theory, isn't it? Not too popular, because we do not want to believe that those who are supposed to be protecting us and are well paid to do so, who have taken oaths and present themselves as arbiters of truth and justice and Democracy, are in fact nothing but profiteers and corrupt down to their black hearts. Their loyalty is sold on the black market daily.

    Imagine how many people have died from these weapons sold by these Lords of War. Imagine the pits of inhumanity in which these death merchants exist.

    One molested and murdered child--wouldn't even create a blip on their radar, IMO.

    But for the unbridled wild horse of the Internet and the Ramsey-hated free speech John would have stopped in its tracks if he could have, I doubt we'd even remember the name of JonBenet Ramsey after an initial Christmas season/slow news day report. :reporter:

    To think! The power of Lockheed Martin exec. John Ramsey thwarted by one lowly detective with a conscience, Steve Thomas, and BEER CAN COLLECTORS on the Internet!

    I love that. I really do. :floor:
  2. LurkerXIV

    LurkerXIV Moderator

    Poor Baby!

    Will we ever know the true horrors she went through on that long Christmas night 14 years ago?

    I still hold out hope that her murderer will some day be exposed and prosecuted.
  3. Elle

    Elle Member

    I can see you have been deeply involved with this Lockhheed Martin information by all you have written, KK, and I agree with all you're saying here. Even although your posts are just your own thoughts, I sincerely hope no harm will come to you because of them.

    I saw George Clooney in "Michael Clayton" a few months ago. It was an excellent moviie. He is a terrific actor and good to look at too :) It's amazing the corruption which goes on in these huge business companies. I would like to watch this movie again. I'll look for it in the stores and buy it.

    Three cheers for Steve Thomas! He will always be highly thought of for his courage in speaking out. I believe him too!
  4. JoeJame

    JoeJame member

    Thank you. That explains a lot.
  5. JoeJame

    JoeJame member

    I have searched and can not find info about Lockheed Martin in the past that I have posted. In the back of my head, I have always felt uneasy about the involvement there. Powerful company, lost phone records, bad reputation and the whole nine yards. There was a fixer. We all knew that from the get go. After the incident, was he not basically banished? Remember when he tried to run for office in some state? can't recall now. But Tricia knew and called them on it. He wasn't much after this. He isn't nothing now. But what did they hide and need to? A mom or son that took a life of a baby or a sister? Protection is the name of the game. What happened?
  6. JoeJame

    JoeJame member

    What I find sad is the fact that no one really talked in their defense. Not Aunt Pam, not Grandpa Pugh or Nedra. But defend them. Heck, what am I thinking. They did not even defend themselves, did they?
  7. Elle

    Elle Member

    I don't think it was necessary for them to do one single thing JJ. Everything had been so well taken care of by the Master himself, Lin Wood.
  8. JoeJame

    JoeJame member

    I agree
  9. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    Without looking it up I seem to remember that the cops on the case had mutilated cats thrown on the lawn, cut garden hoses, gardens torn up, etc. Didn't one have someone shoot at him when he was in his house? I can't remember when these things happened. That might throw some light on who might have been pulling the strings.

    They would've used different tactics against the DA's office probably, but maybe you're right and they didn't even have to do anything.
  10. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    You know, you may have hit upon the truth about this case, kk. If FW goes to his rest without ever revealing his side of the story, I have to believe the powers made it clear to him, in one way or another, that things were better off left unsaid.

    In the world, money is power and big money controls even the best of governments. I don't want to admit it, I'd like to believe that one day the truth will out, but, I think it's a good bet that a "fixer" was running the show and keeping the real truth from coming to light.

    But why, if it were simply a small thing such as sibling attack or a mother who lost her grip...why would the powers be so adamant in covering this thing?
  11. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    My working theory is that John suspected that Patsy's "Plan B" was to frame him and that was suggested to him by the contents of the ransom note. John would have a strong interest in keeping Patsy from being questioned if he thought she might eventually finger him as the murderer.

    As for the powers that be, how would they know for sure which one did it or why?
  12. Elle

    Elle Member

    The more I read about this side of things relating to this case, the more I believe I am reading what truly happened with the Jonbenét case. It's a bit frightening KK.

    I'm not keen on Nicolas Cage as an actor [​IMG] but this I have to see. Thanks for the update on this.

  13. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    It could happen, Lurker, but not through the Boulder DA Office, I'm afraid. For practical reasons I've outlined many times, like cost, the time it would take to try the case (remember O.J.'s trial was 5 months), and the uncovering of Hunter's activities in this case through defense discovery, plus Lacy's public statements which would certainly render "reasonable doubt" for any Ramsey, not to mention her arrest of PERV Karr, etc., JonBenet will never see on this earth in a courtroom. As Steve Thomas said, not without a confession, and not a confession from a pervert media whore looking to make a buck, either.
  14. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Thomas wrote about the alleged scare tactics that happened, though the details were vague, as I remember, because no one was ever found to be guilty of any of the attacks on LE.

    Speaking from memory, what I remember is that not much was even investigated, and I'm not clear if there was ever proof these things happened to Linda Arndt (dead cat on her doorstep?) and another officer whose house was shot at? Those could be related to some other case, as well. Yeah, right.

    If there was any attack on a BDA lawyer, I have never heard about it.
  15. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    All I can do is speculate, of course, Learnin, but what I do believe is undeniable is that big companies do not like to have any bad publicity, especially with their CEOs. One with the kind of international business LM has would not look upon having a CEO implicated, much less convicted, in the molestation and murder of his own six year old daughter as acceptable.

    Remember that LM sold Access Graphics within the year, to G.E. I think it was, and part of that sale ended in JR being pushed out with his golden parachute to comfort him.

    Long ago there was a news article in a Colorado paper that stated JR was fired because he refused to take a polygraph for L.M. and/or G.E. It was a short article and it would take a lot to find it now, since I didn't save stuff back then, not having a clue I'd be here 14 years later. How a reporter got that info I don't know, or even if it was true. But looking up some of the later polygraph issues with the Ramseys today, they refused to answer direct questions in an interview about whether they'd ever taken a polygraph prior to the ones in 2000, citing attorney-client privilege--which tells me yes, at least one of them did. Maybe one or both did and one or both didn't pass.

    I figured if JR's company wanted him to take one and he refused and that contributed to him getting fired or "let go" when the company changed hands, that was either their official excuse to use a clause in his contract to dismiss him, or maybe they really wanted to know the truth.

    Let me repeat that I can only SPECULATE. It's all we have ever been able to do, and none of this may even be close to the truth. But in the spirit of theory, who's to say the Ramseys told anyone the truth the night of the murder or the next day? As suspects, what they said will always be suspect, too. If LM got a call that night and actually knew that the Ramseys were involved, even more reason to suspect what the Ramseys said, even to the LM contact, wasn't true. Maybe LM had no idea the child was molested, that night or prior to that night? Maybe they did and didn't care, but once the murder became the huge headline that wasn't going to go away, maybe LM decided it was time to wash their hands of it all because the one thing no one could have predicted was the Internet/World Wide Web break out of exposure in this murder.

    See, news cycles move pretty fast, as you all know. In 1996, the 24/7 news media channels were new and the effect they had on what the public focuses on was profound, but the only prior uber crime drama played out for a considerable length of time was the O.J. case. There was no Nancy Grace. Court TV was practically invented for the O.J. trial, or at least I knew nothing about it prior to that case. One thing we know for a fact is that the O.J. trial scared the bejesus out of ever D.A. in the country. No one wanted to live through that kind of case. Least of all Alex Hunter.

    But the Ramseys were not O.J. We're talking huge football star, Hollywood star...the works. TWO victims, sexy, young, glamorous, and brutally murdered. Then the low speed chase--I can remember where I was and what I was doing when I noticed it playing out on TV. I was spellbound. We'd never seen anything like this.

    So who could have predicted on that night, Dec. 25th/26th, 1996, that this case would end up in the same publicity stratosphere as the Simpson murders? Who outside the circle of family, friends, and schoolmates even knew JonBenet was a pageant queen, with a still astonishingly large portfolio of modeling shots and video footage in costumes that shocked most parents?

    I remember hearing about the murder on one of those 24/7 news channels when it was first reported, seeing the video footage. I remember even speaking of it to family at a Christmas gathering, mostly because a family member died tragically himself in an accident a couple of days later, a death that altered our family forever, so one tends to remember what at the time seemed trivial conversation.

    I don't know when or how Lockheed Martin received this info, but I have no doubt in my mind they knew about it and quickly, BECAUSE OF THE RANSOM NOTE. I can't believe the FBI wouldn't have notified them immediately, even if JR did not. That's not something an international defense contractor would not be apprised of.

    Terrorism was nothing new even then, and then-LM Denver security exec Norm Early asked the same question on TV later, because he never was informed about the potential threat to other LM exec's and their families at any time. That had to subvert safety protocol IF ANYONE IN LE, THE FBI, OR AT LM REALLY BELIEVED THE RANSOM NOTE, and how could ANYONE have proven in a matter of minutes that the ransom note was a red herring and the child was never kidnapped, but murdered in the home BEFORE THE BODY WAS FOUND? Unless THEY ALREADY KNEW IT before the body was "found"....

    Kidnapping is a very real problem in international business, money, and power, going further back than the kidnapping of John Paul Getty's grandson in Italy, whose ear was mailed in when Getty refused to pay. Mercedes doesn't have an E Class for fun and games: bullet proof. Exec's for international companies actually have KIDNAPPING INSURANCE in case their families need to raise a million quickly. I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP! This has been true for more than 15 years now, as I read about it in an article in Vanity Fair not long after the murder. Especially in countries where "rebels" are "foreign factions" who use kidnap money to fund their "cause", it's a full blown business where if you pay, you get your loved one back, guaranteed--because it's good business. If you pay and don't get your loved one back, who is going to pay?

    No "foreign faction" was going to leave the body or kill the victim and expect to get paid and keep doing business. But I would bet good money that John and Patsy Ramsey knew all about the danger of kidnapping execs faced who traveled overseas for LM. It would be irresponsible for LM not to have a training program of some kind on that for its execs.

    As Shadow has told us many times, btw, and he surely knows because he works in the field and knows FBI agents, as well.

    So why might LM have gone to the trouble of bringing in a "fixer" to help in a cover up with a little child molested and murdered? It's good business, that's why. Do they really want these headlines splashed across the media?


    Remember that LM had and still has some rather large production facilities in Colorado, as well. You better believe LM had/has plenty of power and influence in Colorado, all the way to the White House.

    Like I said, it's a conspiracy theory. If I could prove it, I'd probably be dead. :shadow:
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2010
  16. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

  17. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    A "fixer"?

    Okay, I said that I would bring some sources here for the term "fixer" as the first time I heard it was in a movie--not a good source. I did do some googling, however, and the screenwriter didn't make it up, though the definition is blurry--of course, it's lawyer talk! :deal:

    I have found that some people don't believe there is such a thing, including a law professor in Mississippi, who writes a blog about it in regards tot he movie in question, but nonetheless has an "anonymous" respondent who states he was a "fixer". Then there is a legal case going back to 2001 where a lawyer is called a "fixer" by none other than the American Bar Assoc. Journal and sues. lol I swear...lawyers.... :rolleyes:

    Here you go:

    I would like to point out that the character in the movie Michael Clayton was actually "listed" in the imaginary firm's lawyer roster as "special counsel" in something like wills. So I think it's clear the reference to Clayton as a "fixer" implies it's slang for what he actually does behind the scenes for the firm's clients who get into trouble, which bascially seems to be showing up early and getting defense players in place, sort of a pre-emptive strategy. (My, that does sound Ramseyesque.) While the character doesn't seem to be inherently prone to illegal activities--the woman who hires the hit men is employed by the agrichemical company in the story--Clayton in fact does step over the line by breaking the police crime scene seal to search an apt.

    Anyhow, the professor seems to live a sheltered life, as here is the legal proof the term is nothing new and it does have a "connotation" meaning a lawyer who "fixes" difficult client or in-house problems, though it could mean legally or illegally.
  18. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    From JonBenet:

    "I live in a small neighborhood at the edge of farming country, a place where people are caring and things are quiet, but when I stepped outside my house about eleven o'clock, I tripped over a cat that had been killed, mutilated and thrown onto my lawn. The garden hose was sliced, my wife's flower garden shredded.

    Ten days earlier, Sergeant Bob Whitson, who retrieved the ransom note tablet on December 26, was in his home when two shots from a high-powered rifle shattered his bedroom window and narrowly missed him. A third shot drilled through a wall, then a fourth struck the house as Whitson dove to a closet floor, grabbed his weapon and a phone, and dialed 911. Whoever had fired the shots vanished.

    Detective Linda Arndt, who rarely carried her gun, telephoned me several times during the investigation, plainly frightened. On one occasion blood was splashed on her front door, and another time she was concerned about a prowler.

    There was no follow-up by the police department, which apparently regarded bullets, blood, and dead cats as minor. No stakeouts, no investigation...."
  19. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Thanks for the reread, Fr Brown.

    It's stunning that Boulder LE wouldn't jump hard on attacks on their own detectives and officers, I think. But none of those attacked or in the BPD or BDA Office has ever disputed what Thomas wrote in his book about this, so I think that's strong evidence that what he said was true.

    The problem is without anyone getting caught for those attacks, no way to know who did these things or who was behind it.

    But most police dept's. take threats of violence and shooting at police officers very seriously. Guess not in the Republic of Boulder....
  20. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Good read, kk. I always wondered why John was pushed out of the company he built from the ground up. It seemed like a cruel thing to me, especially if John was innocent, that a company would not support a CEO who had suffered such a tragedy. This report, about LM acting after John refused a poly, is very interesting. It does ring with some truth.

    I think it very possible that, given the wide, persistent, publicity surrounding this case, that LM would want John to get his name cleared. It could be that John frustrated LM's attempt to get at the truth as much as he did BPD.

    I think you're right. With that ransom note, LM had to have been contacted immediately and there must have been some seminars on risks toward CEO's of the company....

    Some food for thought.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice