Autopsy evidence of ONGOING SEXUAL ABUSE

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by koldkase, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. BOESP

    BOESP Member

    Oh, I agree he was not protective of Patsy. Imo, he was protective of the image the family presented to the public and Patsy may have had some knowledge of him and/or his behaviors he didn't want the rest of the world to find out about ... maybe. I see him as an "I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch my back" kind of guy.
  2. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    He? HE?!!! It was Mary friggin' Lacy, a FEMALE District Attorney who fraudulently "cleared" the Ramseys!

    Geez, can NONE of the talking heads get their facts straight?!! Obviously, they are paid the big bucks for talking, NOT knowing case evidence.
  3. heymom

    heymom Member

    Yes, this is a problem for me as well. But I could never see how Patsy could have caused JonBenet's head injuries, not as described. The elements just didn't add up for me. Kolar's eyes are the most recent ones to go through the files, and more of his analysis makes sense to me. (Arndt had little experience and was biased by her own experience in other areas.)

    But I have had no access to the case files, so I will never know.

    Nice to see you back btw.
  4. wombat

    wombat Member

    John did everything he thought he could do for patsy while she was undergoing her chemo. I am not speaking up for him here. He just didn't have what we would now call "tools" to deal with the horror of stage 3c gynecological cancer. When he was raised, cancer wasn't discussed. When patsy was diagnosed, he found a trial that kept her alive for ten years, a noble achievement. Nedra did the grunt work, which was how everyone would have expected then. Patsy got a nice remission.

    Good will and action by all. Nobody dealt with the psychological damage that ensued, eventually causing the violent demise of JonBenet.
  5. Carol

    Carol Member

    Unless someone in the Ramsey family comes clean, this case will never be solved, unfortunately. As far as the talking heads, two were on fire yesterday on FOX News: Geraldo Rivera and Mark Fuhrman. Both believe that the Ramseys were involved in JBR's murder. Rivera said he covered the case from day one and he always believed, as he does now, that the parents were involved in some way and were/are lying.
  6. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    What?! I swear, that Geraldo is a FRICKING ROLLER COASTER!

    NOW he's BACK to believing the Ramseys did it? That man, that man....:rolleyes:

    I am sorry I missed that show. I think I'll try to find it online. I have always liked Fuhrman, his past "sins" notwithstanding. He wrote about the Ramsey case once--was it in a book? I remember reading it--wherever. Like Thomas, he's a serious investigator who pulls no punches. I call them SuperCops. Kolar comes from the same cloth, as well. They rub people the wrong way because they go up against the worst of the worst--not just criminals, but corrupt lawyers who will do anything to subvert the law and get rich doing so.

    Thanks for letting us know that somewhere yesterday, SOMEONE in TVLand was standing up for the VICTIM--JONBENET RAMSEY.
  7. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Oh, you have hit the nail on the proverbial head.

    When I read John describing the effects of the cancer treatments--including full hysterectomy and exploratory surgeries--to Lou Smit in the 1998 DA interviews, I got a glimpse of precisely what you're addressing.

    It's heartbreaking, really, when you consider that one of the worst side effects was the violent death of JonBenet--IMO.
  8. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Here are some excerpts from the transcript of JR's discussion with Lou Smit and Michael Kane in 1998 about Patsy's cancer treatments. They really were brutal. I can imagine they would be even worse for a former beauty queen.

    Also, in this interview segment John doesn't appear to be as cold a fish as he may appear elsewhere.

    It's a long segment but it's riveting reading for case followers who are interested in an inside look at the Ramsey's relationship, IMO. I bolded the parts most directly related to how the cancer and treatment played out for Patsy, in John's very descriptive relating of it.

  9. heymom

    heymom Member

    Wow, thanks for that KK! It certainly does give another dimension to John, and his relationship with Patsy. OK, I will have to reconsider my statement that he would not protect Patsy if she had been responsible for JonBenet's death.

    He really opened up to the detectives here. Spoke without much censoring by the lawyers too.
  10. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Here's the thing about this, heymom: I simply don't believe we can know the dynamics of any family not our own. Or even of our own.

    So I try to stick to the facts and what they tell me. I don't try to discern what I think someone can or can't do, especially someone who has presented lies and deceit, almost pathologically, to us.
  11. questfortrue

    questfortrue Member

    What's known about Dec. 17, '96


    HeyMom, I don’t know if you still read here, but I was researching some posts on FFJ and came across your question about December 17th. I thought I’d reply although a couple years have passed since your question. Since Tricia has wanted this forum to hold a record of facts, I wanted to add a little to what I know about that day. I’m going into some detail, because there is a lot of misinformation on the Internet about this. (gasp!)

    In looking at the 17th I discovered that it was a really great afternoon for JonBenét. She won the talent portion of the All-Stars Christmas Pageant, also called the Little Miss Christmas Pageant.

    Just to clarify some confusion in the transcription, Patsy and JR were in New York with SS and GS on the weekend of the 7th; Nedra and DP were looking after the kids in Boulder. Kolar also references the 17th as the day of the 3 calls to Dr. B’s office.

    There’ve been different dates thrown around on the Internet regarding the date of her award for the Christmas pageant. Schiller actually has the information correct. On December 17, JonBenét entered the All Star Kids Christmas pageant at the Airport Holiday Inn outside Denver. Her parents watched her win several titles, including Little Miss Christmas. When it was all over, John carried all her trophies and costumes to the car. It would be her last pageant. (Schiller, PMPT Kindle, Location 126.)

    From DOI, JR speaking: Her last contest had been in early December and was called the Little Miss Christmas Pageant. I had planned to be there for the talent show, but the program ran ahead of schedule and I missed both the performance and the award. (Kindle edition, Loc. 762-764).

    DOI, again JR speaking: After gathering up what we had asked for, Pam was getting ready to leave when she had a feeling that something important had been missed. She asked to go back to JonBenét’s room, and as she stood in the doorway, her attention was drawn to a seemingly insignificant gold medallion that JonBenét had won in the recent All-Stars Christmas Pageant, her last competition. (Kindle edition, Loc. 753-754)

    From JR’s interviews with Kane and Smit, June 1998. BTW Smit has the incorrect date of the Christmas pageant:
    LOU SMIT: Another thing that I have written
    1 down here is: on the 21st and 22nd, actually it
    2 was on the 22nd, there was an Amerikids Pageant,
    3 and that's what I have listed in my time line. Do
    4 you remember JonBenet participating in the pageant
    5 just shortly before the Christmas?
    6 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, there was one down in
    7 Denver that she participated in. I don't remember
    8 that name. I think it's the one she got this medal
    9 at, this All Stars. But she was in that. Patsy
    10 would remember exactly. It was in December some
    11 time.
    12 LOU SMIT: Did you go to that pageant?
    13 JOHN RAMSEY: I went to the talent part
    14 which is always what I wanted to support JonBenet
    15 on, was the talent part of it. So I'd actually
    16 gone. Her talent performance was supposed to be at
    17 like 3 o'clock and I got there at three and it was
    18 actually ahead of scheduled because she had
    19 already done it and she had one off the whole
    20 thing for talent. And I walked in and she took
    21 this off her neck and put it on my neck.
    She knew
    22 that was important.
    23 I had always said, you know, you have fun, you
    24 know, don't worry about winning or losing but, you
    25 know, work on your talent. So that was always kind
    1 of like (INAUDIBLE).
    2 LOU SMIT: Did (INAUDIBLE) go to the
    3 pageants, John?
    4 JOHN RAMSEY: I would go to some of them,
    5 and I would go to the talent part when she was
    6 doing her performance. But I usually wouldn't go
    7 to the whole thing. That was a mother/daughter
    8 thing they just had. And that, of course, got
    9 blown way out of perspective, I believe. It was,
    10 what we thought was a private setting among
    11 parents and gave JonBenet a chance to develop some
    12 self-confidence and presence, and it was nothing
    13 more than something she and Patsy enjoyed doing
    14 together.
    15 LOU SMIT: Who normally went to her pageants?
    16 Was it just Patsy and JonBenet or --
    17 JOHN RAMSEY: Well sometimes her mother
    18 would go. Her sisters would go if they were here.
    19 Yeah, just usually Patsy and JonBenet.
    Because it
    20 was usually an all day deal. They'd go in the
    21 morning and come back in the afternoon.

    There was another performance in December which some have confused with the All Stars Christmas Pageant. It was at the SW Plaza Mall in Littleton, Colorado, and was a performance, not a pageant. Whynut has this captured on youtube

    From PR’s interview with Haney and DeMuth, June 1998:
    PATSY RAMSEY: Just momentary. I
    16 remember -- remember laying the little red
    17 jumpsuit of JonBenet's over the ironing board,
    18 because it had a few spots on it, so I was
    19 thinking when I came back from the lake I was
    20 going to take that to the dry cleaners, and
    21 decided to lay that under there somewhere.
    22 TOM HANEY: Was that -- it wasn't
    23 something you were going to take to the lake?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: No, no, it was
    25 something she had worn for a Christmas
    1 performance. It was a little Christmas thing.
    2 TOM HANEY: When had she worn that?
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: She had worn it --
    4 well, she wore it, some of her pageant girls
    5 performed together in a group, some Christmas
    6 songs and things, down in a mall in Denver, she
    7 wore it for that.

    Cont. interview with Patsy, Haney and DeMuth, June 1998:
    THOMAS HANEY: How about John with
    19 JonBenet, did they do any special things
    20 together? Is there anything that she liked dad
    21 to take her to do?
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, she loved her
    23 dad to be around all the time. You know, she
    24 liked John to carry her up on his shoulders.
    25 And they liked to bike-ride. And he went to the
    1 pageants

    There are several unknowns surrounding this day and the pageant. Did BR stay with a friend after school; did Patsy and JR have separate vehicles at the pageant and, if so, return home at the same time; were the calls to Dr. B on behalf of BR or JB? What happened after the pageant to cause a need for panicked calls to Dr. B will go unanswered forever. But if the calls were on behalf of her daughter, I’m convinced Patsy (and Dr. B) had some reason for concealing it from LE, and it suggests Patsy knew at least from the December 17th date, that there were big issues in her home she needed to address. mho
  12. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Great information...thank you for adding it!
  13. Elle

    Elle Member

    I just read questfortrue's post. It was very interesting. Thank you QFT!
  14. questfortrue

    questfortrue Member

    Thank you for the feedback, Moab.

    Elle, I so appreciate that you still follow the case.
  15. heymom

    heymom Member

    Yes, I'm still here

    Hi Questfortrue! Thanks for picking up my earlier post and listing all of that good information about December 17th. A good detective that really wanted to solve this case would have gotten those records from the doctor and found out what happened on December 17th. JonBenet had won another pageant....Was Burke jealous of that? Or did something else happen? 3 frantic phone calls...They meant something, that's for sure.

    I came back to see if anyone had seen the news article from John Ramsey about Burke...I'll wait to see what others have to say.
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