Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by rashomon, Jan 23, 2008.
Thanks for the interesting link, KK.
A poster at Topix mentioned a similar case:
"After being thrown, the boy was actually able to grab a blanket and crawl to a bouncy chair, police said. Later, Calusinski "realized he was unresponsive and called for help,'' Hyde said.
Center staff attempted CPR and called 911 at 3:51 p.m., less than a half hour after the incident, police said. Benjamin was pronounced dead at the hospital an hour later.
Lake County Coroner Richard Keller said the boy's ability to crawl afterward isn't unusual, as it takes time for swelling and bleeding in the brain to reach fatal levels.
"These injuries are not immediately fatal,'' he said.
The autopsy found no outward signs of injury; the bruising was under Benjamin's skin, Keller said." (end quote)
Since there has been quite a discussion in the JBR case about the time it took for swelling and bleeding to be come fatal - interesting comment by the coroner that it takes some time.
Which brings Dr. Wright's estimate to mind - he said 20 to 60 minutes passed between the head blow and JonBenet's death.
I sincerely hope little JonBenÃ©t never felt all the staging tactics that came after the head blow, rashomon, with the Ramseys thinking she was already dead(?).
It looks like JonBenet instantly fell into a deep coma after the head blow, Elle, and could not feel the subsequent staging. The complete absence of any defensive wounds/marks in connection with the ligatures and the duct tape indicates this.
Those alleged fingernail marks on the neck which Smit "saw" exist only in his imagination. A while ago, someone posted close-ups of the neck area and there was only petechiae - nothing even remotely resembling fingernail marks.
No tongue indentations, a piece of small duct tape with a perfect lip imprint - JonBenet was already unconscious when the scene was staged in the basement. The forensic evidence leaves no doubt about this imo.
I agree, Rashomon. Everything indicates that JonBenet went down with the head blow. She might have been conscious for seconds, but looking at the skull fractures, I doubt it. Terrible blow.
You know, I was looking at some of the LE transcript with Patsy a few weeks ago, and they mention a trophy to Patsy, one that was in JB's room, it seems. They said it was lying on the floor? I may be a little fuzzy on that, but Patsy said she'd taken "all" of those upstairs...mumbled this and that. It just occurred to me, wonder if that could have been what JB was hit in the head with? Just a thought. No way to know. I've looked for the photo and don't think we have access to it anywhere.
KK, one of the pageant trophies possibly being the object JonBenet could have been struck with has always been in the back of my mind too.
For there was a whole collection of them on top of a wardrobe in her room, I think. There exists a picture of them, I'll see if I can find it.
As for a trophy lying on the floor - could you dig up that part of the interview? I only remember Patsy shedding some crocodile tears in one interview when seeing a pageant crown lying on the floor (that was when she tried to avoid being questioned further about the red turtleneck). But I haven't gone through all the interviews with a fine-toothed comb yet. TIA for your help.
If it was a trophy, it had to be a rounded part striking the head - for a sharp edge would have lacerated the scalp.
Here it is, Rashomon. I can't honestly tell exactly that they're still talking about the "trophy" lying down in JB's bedroom. It's hard to follow without the pics and the dialogue was not audible at times, of course. They talk about a "backpack" or purse on the bed. They talk about Patsy taking the trophies to the playroom. The "doll house" is mentioned, a "curio" where the crayons were, so maybe that's a photo is that's in the playroom? Hard to say, because then they go on to a pillow Patsy says she put on the "front" of the bed...? It's just not clear to me.
Thanks for posting that. So the scattered "hair ties" were really the potholder loops that she had been playing with on the floor. They weren't scattered hair ties at all. Actually, when I first saw the potholder loom in photos long ago, and read about the hair ties, I always suspected that they might actually be the potholder loops. I can easily see where LE, not familiar with either girls' hair ties OR the potholder toy, could mistake the loops for hair ties. There had been reported that there was a basket of hair ties that was spilled in the bathroom? OR was it just the potholder loops?
Hi DeeDee! Well I'm not sure so don't hold me to it but didn't LE show this pic of scattered potholder loops to LHP and she is the one who thought or said they were hairties and told LE that they were kept in a basket in her bathroom? That is what I seem to remember without cracking a book to check so take it for what it is. Maybe someone here can confirm or deny?
There's a photo of the loom included in this group here, DeeDee and KK, and one with the trophies, but still not the one with the trophy on the floor(?)
The same photographs with all the information is on the ACandyRose site.
There is also mention of a larger trophy on the floor, but this one I think would be too large for lifting by one hand, I'm thinking. You can only see a part of it.
Wow if each one of those trophies represents a pagent it sure looks like a lot more than "a few Sunday afternoons".
Thanks for posting these pictures, Elle. Does it say which room it was where all those trophies were kept?
Maddening, isn't it?
Thanks for posting the photos, Elle. That trophy is in a strange place, by the closet door on the right, isn't it? Seems like it would be easy to tip over?
The "loom" is on the painted table between the beds, isn't it?
Is that room with the trophies lined up on top of the cabinet/shelves the playroom? This is why I wish we had the PowerPoint.
According to this informaton it almost appears the trophies are in this master bedroom KK (?) Doesn't seem the right place KK, does it?
Looks like the loom on that photo between the beds Yes, the photos are too small. I'll check this page again tomorrow.
Perfect Murder Perfect Town - Lawrence Schiller
(courtesy of Little)
The third-floor master bedroom had a cathedral ceiling
and a view of the Flatirons. A framed print of red flowers
hung over the fireplace. The king-size bed had a 4-foot-high
hand-carved headboard. A Rider workout machine sat
beside an exercise bicycle. A comer desk held a computer.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" /><o></o>
Displayed on the floor and shelves were twenty-three of
JonBenet's pageant trophies. In a children's play area stood
a 5-foot-tall pageant trophy next to one that measured 8-
I found this rashomon: Blogs and Stories by Lucinda Franks
The way Schiller writes about the trophies in his book, one could mistake this as the bedroom floor rather than outside it.
Oh, but this is Patsy's own trophies. Sorry girls, back to the drawing board. Anyway, you might enjoy the above Blog.
Yes KK, I would think it is definitely the playroom as your post with the index guide does state Patsy moved the smaller trophies to the playroom, so I guess it is the playroom.
Well I guess the psychics are pinning their hopes on the male friend described in this article who JR and the Archuletta's find so suspicious. Maybe Pam wants JR since her marriage was busted up over having to hide the Ramseys.
The article only describes one time they hid the Ramseys, would that be enough to break up a stable marriage?
No way imo. That comment by Pam Archuleta sounds pretty strange indeed.
There certainly has to be more to this...if they kept them overnight before the GJ announcement...what has that got to do with a marriage breakup...unless Mike knows more than he is saying, and felt that Pam having them there even for one night would somehow implicate them.
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