Bienkowski, Krebs, mame, et al

Discussion in 'Mystery Woman/Lee Hill/Alex Hunter' started by Watching You, Sep 9, 2003.

  1. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    The Krebs interview answered a lot of questions we had about the credibility of many of the players in the Internet attack on Fleet White. Unfortunately, it also created many more questions.

    Take, for instance, Nancy Krebs' therapist, Mary Bienkowski. If I were to operate the way the mameslug and her mamebots operate, I could make some huge issues of the statements that have been made by more than one poster that Nancy and Bienkowski were lovers. I don't know if that is the truth, though, and it goes against everything I believe in to start making accusations of that sort without damn good evidence to back me up.

    What I am going to do, though, is take Nancy's own statements in her interview and try to fill in the blanks by asking questions that need to be answered. After much contemplation and study of the transcripts of the Krebs interviews, I am convinced there are answers to be found in the relationship between Nancy Krebs and her therapist, whatever that relationship is, and from there to Hill and Suma. My reasoning will soon become clear.

    This will be an ongoing effort, and since I don't have a lot of time during the day to research and such, I really would like others to pipe in, here. My kids tell me I have to analyze everything. Until they told me that, I really hadn't realized I do analyze everything, which is why they hardly ever pulled anything over on me when they were young, LOL. I have to know more than the end result - I need to understand how something got from point A to point B and so forth.

    I will start the list of questions that need to be answered. I don't have the transcript in front of me right now, but I do have some things in mind that I remember questioning. Please play fair and don't do a mamebot number on Bienkowski. While I feel she inserted herself somewhat into the JBR case by her involvement in the Krebs thing, we are only making a list of questions and our reasoning for those questions right now about Bienkowski and anyone/anything else in the transcript that doesn't add up.
  2. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Leaving home, abandoning vehicle

    This is an area that has been very fuzzy - the reasoning behind it didn't ring true, and Bienkowski's involvement was sketchy and convoluted.

    There are a few questions to be asked here.

    The impression I got from reading the transcript and from the mameslug and her bots over the past few years, was that Nancy was terrified that certain members of the sexual abuse club were going to get to her and cause her harm. There was, of course, confusion in that niggly little detail of what, exactly, the sexual abuse consisted.

    First it was a sex ring consisting of pedophiles. Of course, the word "pedophile" was used sparingly by the mamebots, but by definition, anyone who sexually abuses minor children is a pedophile. Thereafter the sex club morphed into a ritual sexual abuse club consisting of familial abusers as well as outsiders, and the implication was that this sex club was huge. Somewhere in there was Macky Boykin, the only member of this familial ritual sexual abuse club who Nancy ever turned in for raping her.

    At any rate, right from the beginning, confusing details were given. Who were these people in the pedophile sex ring/ritual sexual abuse club? Nancy claimed in her interview that Fleet White Sr., a man in his 80's, had called her several times offering her money -$50,000, $75,000 - not to talk to police. I know what the explanation of the mamebots would be - Nancy's grandmother knew what Nancy was going to do and notified FW Sr. Well, that explanation would make Nancy look really stupid, wouldn't it? Why would she tell her grandmother her plans? She didn't trust her grandmother, after all, because she was involved with the sex ring of pedophiles - her handler.

    My first question:

    If Nancy Krebs was so terrified of anyone in the sex club finding out she was going to the police, would she have notified any of her handlers or abusers of her intent? How, then, did FW Sr. find out about her intentions, because in order for him to try to bribe her, someone would have had to have told him that Nancy was going to squeal. Of course, Nancy would not have said anything to anyone, because she was scared of them. Right? Did FW Sr. read her mind? 1 + 1 = 2, but not in this case. It doesn't add up.

    The story Krebs tells about her "escape" from her grandmother's home raises other questions. The story mamesuma and her mamebots told was that Nancy had left her apartment, her cat, her clothes and ran. The actual events, as described by the in-credible Krebs, was that she left her grandmother's home, where she was living and caring for her grandmother (one of her "handlers" and of whom she was also terrified). We were misled by mamesuma. We were not initially told that Nancy lived with her grandmother - we were led to believe Nancy lived alone in an apartment - with her cat - and that her cat had been left alone. This was, of course, not true. I personally expressed concern about her cat being left alone at the time as did others, but none of the mamebots responded to that concern. That's because they knew the cat wasn't left by itself. The grandmother was there.

    We also learned, much later, that Nancy did have suitcases with her when she fled her grandmother's house, leaving behind her cat. We had been led to believe, through clever wording by the mamebots, that she had only the clothes on her back WHEN SHE LEFT HOME.

    What really happened was that Nancy's therapist, Mary Bienkowski, drove Nancy to, I believe, San Francisco? The story was, they felt they were being followed, so Nancy abandoned her car and her clothing and once again, fled.

    Wow. I mean, help me understand this. This one paragraph is full of holes, and I have a ton of questions.

    First of all, Bienkowski admittedly knew what Krebs was going to do, and she aided and abetted her in doing it. They drove as far as San Francisco (someone correct me if I've got the destination wrong here), decided someone was following them, and then????

    Where's the rest of the story? Seems to me the next thing I knew, Krebs was in Boulder. She had fled California, leaving behind her car and clothes, and now she was in Boulder at some safe house? I don't recall reading how she got to Boulder. Did she fly? If so, who paid for her plane ticket? Was the car abandoned at an airport? Did she walk to Boulder? Did Lee Hill drive her from her abandoned car?

    What was the plan in the first place? Did Bienkowski plan to drive Krebs the entire distance to Boulder? Or did she already have a plane ticket? When they abandoned the car, did they then go to a phone and call someone for help?

    What about Bienkowski. They abandon the car. After that, Bienkowski just sort of drifts off into oblivion until she next appears back in her office, talking on the phone to Lee Hill. How did she get back to her home? Did she take a bus? Walk? Stay at a hotel overnight? Call someone to come get her? Fly? What happened during that fuzzy period of time?

    All this may not seem important, but it all helps connect the dots from here to there and back. Before we can find out the why, we need to know the what and the how.
  3. Spade

    Spade Member


    Your version of the facts at the threashold of Krebscam is very close to the truth. nancy's only JOB was to care for her aging Grandmother. A few days before nancy came to Boulder, county sheriff's deputies came to her Grandmother's home and warned nancy that they would have to reposses her car if she did not pay $1,800. Her Grandmother loaned her the money that day. This act of kindness was repaid by nancy and bienkowski launching Krebscam.

    There never was a sex ring folks. Not in nancy's youth and not when nancy was in her 30's alleging that she was being raped by an 85 year-old. It was all a lie.
  4. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin


    None of the Krebs story concerning the therapist, Mary Bienkowski, rings true to me. In fact, each segment contradicts the other.

    From what I have read, Bienkowski was an advocate (or counselor?) at a rape center, and that is where she and Nancy met after the Boykin episode, I believe. It is unclear how long after that Nancy became a therapist, and it is also unclear if Nancy had therapy during the time before she started going to Bienkowski.

    The most puzzling issues about all of this are the contradictions. Bienkowski first offered to open all her records on Krebs to the BPD but she later retracted that offer, saying she wasn't happy with the way the BPD had handled the matter. I don't think investigators ever saw those records. They were given some statements that Bienkowsk allegedly gave Lee Hill about her client, Krebs - mainly that Nancy had told her the same things she was going to tell the BPD over the 10 years or so that she was her therapist and that Nancy could handle the interviews and was not mentally ill.

    Without access to the actual records, which Krebs claimed she waived privilege on so the BPD could examine them, no one except Bienkowski knows what was really there. But, the most amazing thing about it is - if Bienkowski's claims that Nancy had revealed names and incidences of sexual abuse to her - abuse that supposedly happened to Krebs since the age of three years - didn't Bienkowski have a legal obligation to go to the police with this information? Regular MD's are obligated, by law, to report cases of physical and sexual abuse, if they know it's abuse, ESPECIALLY child abuse of any kind. They don't have a choice, legally, they HAVE TO REPORT it.

    Do therapists and psychologists/psychiatrists practice under a different set of rules and laws? Someone, somewhere, can't remember who or where, published the California code of conduct for those in the field Bienkowski is in. It makes no difference that she was in private practice, she is still governed by the same laws and ethics all other doctors and practiioners are goverened by.

    So, the BIG question is, why didn't Bienkowski report and demand action on the awful, ongoing sexual and physical abuse by this pedophile sex ring/familial abuse club to the proper authorities, according to the rules and laws of California? The fact that she never reported anything to anyone, as far as I know, would seem to indicate there never was any abuse reported to her in the first place. I mean, she was legally bound to report this abuse. She was morally and ethically bound to try to stop the ongoing abuse against her client. Why didn't she? Because it never happened? That's how it appears to me.

    Instead, what Bienkowski did was enable Nancy to make up this story about FW and JR and her family members. She not only enabled her, she aided and abetted her.

    So, according to Bienkowski, (and common sense tells us)

    1. Krebs was not mentally ill. She just needed on-going therapy.
    2. Krebs had told her about the on-going abuse in the past.
    3. Bienkowski did nothing to stop the on-going abuse by calling authorities and reporting it.

    If Krebs was not mentally ill, then what sort of therapy was Bienkowski doing on her? Was Krebs delusional? Is that why she was in long-term therapy? I understand that sexual assault victims sometimes need therapy. In this case, the only PROVEN case of "rape" was the Mackey Boykin case - the statutory rape case. There are all kinds of rumors about Mackey Boykin and Nancy Krebs. Some who are in a position to know the truth claim it was consensual sex between Boykin and Krebs when Krebs was in her teen years, but Krebs blew Boykin in for rape. Good for her - she should have turned him in for rape. He was a grown man, knew Krebs was jailbait, but took the chance, anyway. He probably deserved what he got, which wasn't very much, because I hear the DA got wind of Krebs' shenanigans and also found out that Boykin wasn't even in the vicinity when she accused him of raping her the second time. It's rumor, to be sure, but it's rumor that hasn't been cleared up or discredited as yet.

    Back to Bienkowski. If Bienkoswki was treating Krebs for delusions and such, then she damn well knew that Nancy was not competent and her stories about the sex ring abuse were fantasy. So, why did Bienkowski represent these abuse accounts by Nancy as fact if she knew they were delusions? Or, did Bienkowski plant the suggestion, herself, that these things happened to Nancy? I don't know the answers here, that's why I'm asking.

    So far, nothing is adding up. What my suspicions are is that Nancy Krebs and Mary Bienkowski had a relationship outside the therapist's office. I'm not saying they were lovers. They could have been, but I don't know that. I am saying there were more than patient/client, as many have already asserted.

    I suspect the two of them cooked this all up between them and possibly one or two other persons. I think it was all planned - the phone call to Lee Hill, the car trip to San Francisco, the "escape" from the car, leaving everything behind (I'll bet she had her handbag with her when she ran, though), the story about FW offering her money not to go to the police, the sob story to tell about leaving her cat behind. It was all just too neat. Like, what the hell was Bienkowski doing driving her anywhere, if she wasn't more than just her therapist? I don't know of any therapists or doctors or psychologists who leave their practices and families to drive a patient anywhere, much less miles away to tell a crazy story to a police station in another state. Most people are lucky to get to talk to the receptionist for an appointment when they are not in a therapy session with their therapist. It doesn't add up.

    That really does raise the question of, what was the true relationship between Nancy Krebs and Mary Bienkowski? In most instances, it wouldn't be necessary to know that. But, those two tried to pull off a big scam in the JBR case, the result of which was a trail of destruction that still has far-reaching effects. In order to understand how it all happened, one has to know what the relationship between the two of them really was.
  5. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Hi Spade

    I'm glad you posted what you did. It brings to mind some other things I want to say, some of it involving you and the way the mameslug and her bots trashed you on the forums.

    I've always wondered, and felt bad about, Nancy's grandmother and the way Nancy treated her and other family members. Nancy claimed to be afraid of her grandmother; yet, it was Nancy who had the upper hand in that house. I had so much love and respect for my grandparents when they were alive, it is hard for me to imagine anyone who could use their grandma that way.

    Nancy apparently had no conscience. Is she a sociopath? Sociopaths are experts at fooling others into thinking they are wonderful, honorable people, when the truth is, they are masters of deceit. I think about my mom, my children's grandmother, and the way they honor and respect their grandma. They would never think of dishonoring and hurting their grandma that way nor would they accept money from her.

    Then, there's Spade. I remember Spade from long ago on the forums. I didn't really get into the Spade era, I only remember Chris Wheeler making assertions about him and, of course, the entire queen clique and mamebot group got into tearing him up. I had no way of knowing at the time what the truth was, I only observed at the time. I did know, though, that something was way off about Nancy's story.

    Now, I know why Chris and the others tried so hard to discredit Spade. This is what they did to anyone who knew the truth about Nancy Krebs and her family. Any logical, reasoning person can see the holes in Nancy's story and pretty much figure out what was going on there, just as much from what was left out of her story as what was told. Even without Spade just giving us that bit of information, I already knew it was a load of BS back in 2000 when the mameslug and her mini-mes came on JW with this outrageous, unbelievable, in-credible fairy tale.

    The biggest question is still - why did they do it?
  6. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Ahhhhhhh I and another poster here thought that eventually money might just be factor in this mess. So old "confused" and "child-like" victim Krebs was having money problems?

    By the way, The krebs Krazies went around in the beginning telling people that Krebs was offered $50 K or something like that from the tabloids for her story. It's a lie. Nobody at the tabs believed her crap, and hence, no money was ever offered. This is a fact.
  7. Spade

    Spade Member


    Thank you for acknowledging the slander that the White and Christoff/Sprague families have endured from the perpetrators of Krebscam. I hope our cooperation will facilitate the karmic payback this group of scumbags deserves.
  8. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    I'm not the only one, Spade

    who was against the wholesale slaughter of FW's reputation and also Nancy's family. There is a whole pack of us here and on other forums, as well, who fought this for so long, and I'm damn proud of every last one of them. I was raised to be very careful in accusing anyone of anything that I couldn't be sure of, and that could ruin his reputation and good name, but even if I hadn't been brought up that way, my conscience wouldn't let me do that. I value integrity and honesty above almost everything. The people involved in this scam had neither. It was the most disgusting, unjustified attack against another human being that I've ever witnessed.
  9. Spade

    Spade Member


    The alledged offer of hush money from FWSr is a total fabrication. FWSr and his wife had been in touch with nancy's Grandmother in the weeks before Krebscam because Alyce had serious medical problems that required surgery.(keep in mind that nancy not only slandered Alyce Sprague but deserted her when her Grandmother was physically unable to care for herself) The White Sr. family offered the use of their home in southern California for Alyce's recuperation.

    Nancy and the lamebots (good name for a punk rock band) lies were so egregious that they defy logic as to how anyone could believe this BS UNLESS they were being paid to flak it.
  10. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    And that is the big question.

    Was anyone paid to perpetrate this horrible injustice heaped upon the Whites?
  11. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    I doubt it, Tricia. I believe, and could be wrong, that all of this was a string of circumstances that came to an ugly head by accident. I think Krabs just came along when Singular was trying to sell his movie and book deal, and Mame involved herself because as we all know, she thought she'd get famous off it. Well SS ran off with his tail between his legs, Lee Hill is AWOL (and who can blame him?), and nobody cares what Maim has to say anymore.

    Krebs had a long history before involving herself in this case, so she's hardly case specific. I believe she was looking for money, whether she got it from FW or the tabloids--plus she got the all important attention she needed.

    Now--if one wants to look for a money trail, I would strongly suggest looking no further than Morgan.
  12. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    I agree with you, Bob

    and it's not the first time it's been suggested that Morgan was getting her bank account fattened for her part in all this. I don't know if it's true, but it would explain her relentless attacks against White and anyone who didn't follow that particular party line.

    As far as FW Sr. offering Nancy money, I always thought it was probably the other way around. Nancy demanded money, as in a false blackmail scam. When it wasn't forthcoming, she turned dirty.
  13. 1000 Sparks

    1000 Sparks Active Member


    Do you mean Morgan the judge or the other one?

    Tell us more, tell us more please.

    OT: Do you have a Pug dog?
  14. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Getting back to Bienkowski for a second.

    The fact that she wouldn't open the files for the BPD speaks volumes.

    IF the claims were true than what was she afraid of?

    WY with you putting the everything in black and white it seems even clearer now that Bienkowski could have acted inappropriately.

    What steps can be taken to investigate this?

  15. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    I mean JW poster morgan as in allegedly the sister of Holly. Thick as thieves with Susan Stein. Of course they will carry on and scream LIAR but it is a fact. Are they getting paid? Who knows--but God I hope not because they have done a really chitty job. But anti-Ram? They were never anti-Ram.

    Yes I have a pug named Barton. He is gawking at me with his little pumpkin head right now.
  16. Spade

    Spade Member

    Susan Stine

    is "thick as theives" with Holly and Morgan????? If this is right, and because it is posted by BobC I assume it is, we may have taken a giant step to explaining Krebscam. BobC, can you share some details of the Holly/Morgan connection to Susan/Beckner?
  17. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    All I know, and I can't say how I know, is that Morgan had a lot of contact with SS in the past couple of years. I don't like getting into who says what, and who's who, because I try to respect peoples' privacy. But yes the poster known as Morgan was communicating with SS. The only thing here that concerns me now is this bizzness about there being two Morgans, which I didn't know. I always assumed the Morgan in question was the one who was supposedly Holly's sister.

    And hence the problem with the internet--people playing games with identities! When I say Morgan, I am speaking of Stumpy from CS.
  18. AK

    AK Member

    Let's be clear:

    Susan Stine pretended to be Mark Beckner in some emails.

    In reality, she has nothing to do with Beckner.

    Beckner is not responsible for Krebs-gate or any of its supporters.
  19. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    I think Spade was making a joke about that impersonation. Nobody in LE anywhere believed Krebs. Nobody with a brain did after learning the details.
  20. Spade

    Spade Member


    BobC right-on! Just reminding everyone that Susan Stine has skated after impersonating the Chief of police in the Republic of Boulder.
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