Broken paintbrush

Oh my, this is not good news I'm reading here, DeeDee. I am thankful nothing ever happened to my boys, or granddaughters. One has to be very careful who one leaves their children with, boys or girls.

I think it's time Burke Ramsey was questioned again.

 

Yes, one has to be VERY careful, and a Nanny-cam is a good idea.

Burke will never be questioned. Legally, NO one has an obligation to talk to police or investigators unless they are indicted for a crime. Even if arrested, they have the right to remain silent. LE can always ASK to talk to him again, but he has no obligation to cooperate. If they do speak to LE, they have a right to always have an attorney present, and this is exactly what the Rs did. They NEVER spoke to LE alone.
The only time someone MUST speak to LE without a lawyer present is if they are indicted by Grand Jury. No lawyers allowed, and all questions must be answered unless the person invokes his Fifth Amendment right not to answer on the grounds that it would incriminate himself. And that very statement implies involvement in the crime, and it is also made public that the person has "invoked the Fifth".

 

Burke appears to have been well taken care of, but he himself still has to live with whatever happened that night. He certainly was old enough to have it come back and haunt him.(?).

One can fully understand why Steve Thomas left LE. This case was just a mockery of justice.

 

Question?

Wouldn't it cause one to question "IF" something was going on with JonBenet's frequent visits to her Doc? Weren't they often for urinary complaints? Oh yes, the famous bubble baths causing them...huurumph! Phooey on that excuse. I've mentioned this for years now that even her Doc didn't investigate, I mean really investigate why so many infections. This just isn't normal for a little girl to have so many. Patsy could have just blown it off while in the Doc's office too, and probably did.

 

JB's visits were allegedly for vaginitis. It is well known that many bubble bath products cause irritation in children, and actually, if you look on the bottles in ANY drug store or supermarket, they all clearly say "not for use by children". What is suspicious to me is that Patsy was not a stupid woman. How many times would a mother have to be told to stop the bubble baths because they are irritating your child before the mother stops the bubble baths? To suggest that these 33 visits were all for vaginitis and yet the pediatrician does not press further to see what is going on is simply not believable. If I were that doctor, I'd be asking the mother why she continues to give the child bubble baths. OR I'd be looking into abuse.
JB's doctor admitted he never did an internal exam on JB. This isn't really surprising because an internal requires use of a speculum, which is painful enough in an adult woman who has borne children, let alone a 6-year-old girl. In the rare cases where an internal MUST be performed on a child, the child is usually anesthetized.

 

Good point, Heymom.
Maybe it was the risk of beeing seen that tipped the scale for leaving the body in the home, rather than than not brining themselves to leave their child out there.
Having a "proper burial" was also so important for the fake ransom note writer (the evidence points to Patsy) that she mentioned in the note.
The histoy of criminal cases also shows that even parents who have who have committed atrocious murders of their own children, and then staged a scene, can still slip some elements of caring into it all.
Family killer Jeffrey MacDonald for example, after the blood bath, tucked his children in bed, even putting a baby bottle next the youngest child's mouth.
So one can find those elements of "parental care" together with elements of utmost cruelty.

It drastically shows that wanting to save their hide was more important to the Ramseys than anything else.
They had no empathy for JonBenet in life, abusing her as a puppet on display, and they had no empathy for her in death.

 

post-mortem petechiae

The autopsy report speaks of "a very faint area of violet discoloration"; imo it could also have dated back from an earlier incident.

As for what caused the genital wound: since the small paintbrush splinter was found in precisesly the same location as the wound, imo this connects the paintbrush to the infliction of the wound.

I was also surprised to learn that there exist post-mortem petechiae as well.
http://www.enotes.com/forensic-science/petechial-hemorrhage

 

splinter

I don't think the autopsy said anything about a splinter - it said birefringent material. It could have been from a paint brush but that could also have been on someone's finger and been a transfer. So it wasn't necessarily true that a portion of the paint brush was used in the vaginal area but that is a possibility. The faint purplish area could have been from some time in the past but the blood definitely was from that night. The bruise could possibly be determined to be old by a decent forensic pathologist but it doesn't mention whether it was fading or not. It could be just a light bruise.

How frustrating that it is very difficult to know anything for sure with the small bits of info fed to us and the autopsy was not done well unless there are details that have been held back.

 

yipes

Delmar still speaks! Yes the petechiae can be post mortem but they are usually different than those from asphyxiation - larger and less well-defined and usually found on the heart or lungs. JBR did have some on her lungs but the ones on her eyelids are the ones that tell the story. Delmar and I argued over this point several times. He insisted they could have been caused by something else - he usually said a disease process - but JBR didn't have a disease that would cause them.
I know that there are those that believe JBR wasn't asphyxiated at all but I am definitely not one of them.

 

splinter; petechiae

The autopsy report said birefringent material, but it is somewhere in the back of my mind that ST in his book spoke of a cellulose splinter (cellulose is birefringent) which was later found to be consistent with the paintbrush material. I'll see if I can find the passage in the book.
Since the birefrigent material was found precisely where the the genital wound was, and taking into account Dr. McCann's statement about the wound, imo it would fit the paintbrush tip being used as an instrument:

"It was his [Dr. McCann's) opinion that the injury appeared to have been caused by a relatively small, very firm object which, due to the area of bruising, had made very forceful contact not only with the hymen, but also with the tissues surrounding the hymen. McCann believed that the object was forcefully jabbed in – not just shoved in. Although the bruised area would indicate something about the size of a finger nail, he did not believe it was a finger, because of the well demarcated edges of the bruise indicating an object much firmer than a finger."

Source: Bonita Papers.
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums /showthread.php?p=139808#post139808
The missing tip could suggest that the stager of the scene did not want LE to know that the wound had been inflicted with the paintbrush.

I had several discussions with Delmar about the petechiae as well. There is indeed no indication of a disease, and imo the manifestation of petechaie right above and below the neck ligature do connect them to the tied cord. He replied that JonBenet also had petechiae e. g. on one shoulder and on lower parts of the neck, and how I would explain that? He supposed a physical fight between Jonbenet and her mother had preceded the head injury (the body also shows abrasions), leaving petechiae as marks.
But still, the neck ligature-petechiae connection is indisputably there.
Imo the stager, in order to make the strangulation scene look convincing, attempted to tie a tight neck knot, and this cut off the last oxygen supply to JonBenet, who was already in a near-death coma from the head blow.

Suppose the neck ligature had been applied post-mortem, would the furrow still have been red? I vaguely recall reading somewhere it would have been white, but haven't saved the link, so I'm not sure I recall it correctly.

 

rashomon,

"Cellulose" is mentioned on page 228 of the following extract from Steve Thomas' book. - Courtesy of Little. "JohnBenét" Inside the Investigation By Steve Thomas

 

on the shoulder

The petechiae on the shoulder are, imo, in the shape of fingers and could be where someone gripped her shoulder. I have seen the same thing where an automatic blood pressure cuff was on an arm - I have seen that many times actually. I think that is just another form of bruising. (which is also broken blood vessels) I have also seen it on a person who had been smacked hard on the back.

I think the ones around the neck are undeniably related to the rope and definitely not fingernail marks as Jams has claimed they are. That may be where the skin wrinkled and got rolled a little as the rope got tighter, pinching the skin.

Now that you mention it I do recall reading something about a piece of cellulose in the vaginal area. I don't think the autopsy we have read mentions it but I'm sure there are details that weren't made public through the autopsy.
The bruise mentioned is interesting - do you think that bruise you mentioned in the last post is a different bruise than the light violet bruise found on her labia? It sounds like the bruise from your last post was more defined.

 

The ligature furrow would appear white, not red, if the ligature was applied postmortem. And the coroner would have known this. The white marks are caused by the pressure of the object (cord, in this case) against flesh under which blood has stopped circulating and begun to "gel", in livor mortis. The pressure of the cord pushes the blood out if the way, as it were.
If you look at the autopsy photos of JB's bare back, you will see some white stripy lines. These are postmortem marks from the white Gap shirt she was wearing when she was found. These marks indicate she was wearing the shirt before livor mortis because the marks formed. If it had been put on her after livor "fixed", there would be no marks,
Also there would be no eyelid petechiae if she had been dead already. Petechia form because capillaries burst as the body is starved of oxygen.
There is another kind of petechiae that form as decomposition advances, as the capillaries dissolve and the body "bleeds out". The coroner can tell the difference.

 

Ella and Little, thanks so much for your help in finding the passage in ST's book.

Yes, it's a different bruise. In the quote I posted from Dr. McCann, he refers to the genital injury described in the autopsy report here:
"A 1 cm red-purple area of abrasion is located on the right posterolateral area of the 1 x 1 cm hymeneal orifice. The hymen itself is represented by a rim of mucosal tissue extending clockwise between the 2 and 10:00 positions. The area of abrasion is present at approximately the 7:00 position and appears to involve the hymen and distal right lateral vaginal wall and possibly the area anterior to the hymen."

Re the area of faint violet discloration, the autopsy report says:
"On the right labia majora is a very faint area of violent discoloration measuring approximately one inch by three-eighths of an inch. Incision into the underlying subcutaneous tissue discloses no hemorrhage."

Also interesting in that context:
"On the anterior aspect of the perineum, along the edges of closure of the labia majora, is a small amount of dried blood. A similar small amount of dried and semifluid blood is present on the skin of the fourchette and in the vestibule.A similar small amount of dried and semifluid blood is present on the skin of the fourchette and in the vestibule. "

Does "semifluid" indicate that JonBenet died before the blood could coagulate?

 

Not necessarily. The blood was all liquid when it was shed. The semifluid blood could have been liquid in the process of coagulating at that point, but blood also "gels" after death, when it is no longer circulating. I would think this gelled blood looks different than coagulated blood, especially to a coroner. Because dead bodies don't "bleed", whatever injury caused the bleeding in the first place caused BOTH typed of blood found.
However, dead bodies will exsanguinate (lose blood) if the decomposition advances to that point. The blood seeps from blisters that form in the extremities. This was not the case with any of the blood found in JB or her clothes. She was not at that point yet. Her blood, including residue of what was wiped from her thighs and pubic area, was from injuries caused when she was alive. Bruising also occurs only when someone is alive. For this reason, inserting a paintbrush in her corpse would not cause either the bruising or the bleeding, so those injuries were done when she was alive.
It seems that as ST mentions a cellulose splinter, that the missing paintbrush piece was not found inside JB.

 

yes

blood would coagulate after death because the blood that was found on JBR had been shed while she was alive. Blood coagulates due to factors found in blood such as prothrombin. Those factors would continue to work the same because once the blood is shed it is no longer influenced by the body. I don't know why it would be semifluid but it wouldn't be because clotting stopped after death. Perhaps it was mixed with another fluid?

I do know from experience that once blood clots it stays clotted but there is sometimes a small amount that may separate from the clotted blood. That usually happens when there is a large amount of blood though. My experience of this is limited to what happens in surgery so there may be others that know more about post mortem blood than me. The huge majority of my patients made it out alive.:tsmile:

 

Bubble bath

I will keep reiterating this until my last breath -

The vaginitis being caused by bubble bath is a very common COVER UP for sexual activity by an abuser or someone covering up for an abuser. If the young child has yeast infections or vaginitis or UTIs, you will hear that excuse being mentioned.

But I will tell you again, that bubble bath MIGHT cause irritation of the VULVA, the exterior of a girl's anatomy, but it will NOT go up into the vagina because that is what a hymen does, keeps things OUT. You would have to insert an instrument up into the girl and tear or penetrate her hymen in order to introduce bubble bath, or any substance, INTO her vagina. Just would not happen in a bath tub.

Vulvar irritation, yes, but anything inside of a young girl's vagina didn't get there by accident.

 

You can have OUTER irritation from a substance the child is allergic to. But you are not going to have INSIDE irritation unless something that shouldn't have been up inside a young girl has been up there. Her hymen will keep out infections from anything EXCEPT if she's been sexually abused. JonBenet had been abused, she had all the signs, we just don't know who did it, but whoever it was, probably had something to do with her death.

 

You're right. In JB's case, she had not much hymen left. As described in the autopsy, "the hymen is represented by a rim of tissue" then goes on to describe the erosion. Someone was abusing her before her death for sure. So in her case, bubble bath could have caused internal irritation as well. Though I have a hard time believing any mother would hear this that many times and STILL give her kid bubble baths. Ditto the pediatrician. How many vaginitis visits does it take before you start to look a little closer...but then, he was a friend of Patsy and JR. Belonged to the same country club.

 

Thanks Hey Mom,

And if he was doing his duty as a physician he would have reported this suspicion to the proper authorities...the devil be damned as it would be correct. Tough to do but who knows JonBenet could still be alive if this had happened...the reporting I mean.