DOI Discussion

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Moab, May 13, 2005.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia FFJ Senior Member

    :idea: Okay, it's like this the one legged intruder-kidnapping terrorist, who was forgetful, might have come from Olongapo City! Long shot I know, but still it is possible.

    Okay better go to sleep now and try to figure it out tomorrow. :)
  2. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me Member

    When you read the Ramseys' book with the left side of your brain, the message you mainly get is one of them trying to portray how innocent they are. However, when you read it using the right side of your brain and read between-the-lines to get beneath the surface, they are crying out, "We're guilty! We're guilty! We're guilty!"

  3. Sylvia

    Sylvia FFJ Senior Member

  4. Show Me

    Show Me FFJ Senior Member

    It is amazing how Patsy thinks she can boss God around and demand certain results. The Rams are not the least bit humble when it comes to interpreting God's words.
  5. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me Member

    One minute, Patsy is judging a women's beauty contest (the Miss West Virginia pageant) and the next she is told by her doctor she has stage 4 cancer. To top it off, it's ovarian cancer, the cancer of which made her a full and complete woman. This had to have devestated her.

  6. Sylvia

    Sylvia FFJ Senior Member

    To my opinion, she did not have stage IV cancer, based on the extensive description she gave in their book. I believe she had stage IIIc however, I even doubt that. If you lie that blatantly about such a serious disease then how much more are you willing to lying about it?

    First, there was no cancer in the colon as she states herself on page 81: “By the time I went into surgery on Monday morning, the doctors knew that the colon was not infected.â€

    Second, she states on page 83: “The cancer has spread to your lymph nodes, he said. This means that you are at Stage IV, rather then Stage III, as they told you in Atlanta.â€
    This is a blatant lie! Stage III as described according to standardized by the International Federation of Gynecology and Obstetrics (FIGO) definitions, which already where defined at that time: Stage III cancer of the ovary means the cancer has spread outside the pelvis into the abdominal cavity. Your cancer is also stage III if there is cancer found in the lymph nodes in the upper abdomen, groin or behind the womb. I assume that a physician working at the National Cancer Institute in Bethesda is well aware of these standardized stages defined by the FIGO.

    She states in their book on page 84: “There’s also a tumor about the size of a golf ball behind your pelvic bone.†Which would lead to IIIc = There are tumor growths larger than 2cm on the lining of the abdomen; the lymph nodes in the upper abdomen, groin or behind the womb contain cancer.

    Stage IV is defined as: The cancer has spread into other body organs such as the liver or lungs. (If there is cancer on the surface of the liver but not within the liver itself, then the cancer is regarded as Stage III.) She does not mention in their book that any organs were infested! And you think she would not have shouted that from the rooftops? Therefore, it could not be stage IV.

    I know what a horrible disease cancer is, I have seen it at work close by and with a deadly end. I have seen the severe suffering, in the worst possible way. Therefore, I hate it when someone lies about cancer in whatever way. It is bad enough, even if it curable, it is still terrible, since there is always the possibility that the disease recurs.
  7. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    You make a compelling case for Patsy's exaggeration of her cancer status (which can then reveal that she is prone to exaggerate other significant events, such as her supposed innocence, and/or her suffering over her daughter's death; just as Patsy could have cancer but make it seem worse than it is, she could be sad JonBenet is dead, but also make it seem that she is sadder than she actually is). I note that the only other woman to survive the clinical trial, Barbara Sanders, said in the book JONBENET'S MOTHER that she had stage IIIc cancer, and she subsequently died of it in 2003. It seems unlikely that someone with a worse stage of cancer would live longer than someone with a lesser stage, especially when they received identical treatment, but it makes much sense that a person with a less severe cancer would live longer than someone with a worse stage.
  8. Sylvia

    Sylvia FFJ Senior Member

    Yes, I think exactly the same thing. Not a word that comes from their mouths means a thing to me. To my opinion they are pathelogical liars, and every mean to gain pity or sympathy is justed. To sad that so little recognize it or dare to admit that they are suspicious.

    Like I said in the original page:

  9. Texan

    Texan FFJ Senior Member


    Maybe she is Patsy is just rounding to the next number. Just kidding - I'm in the thick of a chemistry class that I have to take and am in sheer misery over this math.
    I think IIIc probably is more accurate. Maybe her doctor told her it was stage 4 at one point and then when they had done the surgery they knew it was just IIIc and Patsy just continued to say it was stage 4. After all, 4 is pretty close to IIIc, and it is easier to say!
  10. Sylvia

    Sylvia FFJ Senior Member

    Sorry, Texan, but that won’t do, as I said it would have been stage IIIc. Nowhere in the book the stages, as given by here, are mentioned, there is only reference to III and IV.

    Fact remains that she CLAIMS a physician of the National Cancer Institute in Bethesda said: “The cancer has spread to your lymph nodes, this means that you are at Stage IV, rather then Stage III, as they told you in Atlanta.†I left out the he said for the continuity of the sentence. Fact is if it is in the lymph nodes it remains stage III. No one is going to tell me that a physician of a National Cancer Institute doesn’t know that. If that were true, to my opinion, he should not practice medicine there or anywhere. Stage IV is when other body organ, like liver or lungs are infested.

    Fact remains that she had surgery in Atlanta, on which she states: “By the time I went into surgery on Monday morning, the doctors knew that the colon was not effected.†She further states that she thought before the surgery: “Now if the tumor is not malignant, I am home free.†This is the normal procedure, at least here it is, they test and if necessary perform surgery, during which they will also take tissue samples of lymph nodes in your pelvis and abdomen, diaphragm, and tissue lining your abdomen and pelvis.

    Fact remains she states that she thought immediately after the surgery: “Obviously they had removed my ovaries and performed a radical hysterectomy.†This is normal and even is done when you are diagnosed stage I, unless you have a borderline or very low grade cancer. With stage II or III, they also remove the omentum, a sheet of fatty tissue inside the abdomen, plus as much of the tumor elsewhere as it is possible to remove. And although one complete chapter of 18 pages is about her cancer, she doesn’t state anywhere that anything else besides that her ovaries were removed and she had a radical hysterectomy.

    Fact remains that after the physician supposedly told her it was stage IV because it was in the lymph nodes, he goes as follows: “There’s also a tumor about the size of a golf ball behind your pelvic bone, it may have developed since your surgery.†That is possible since they won’t start with chemotherapy before you have recovered from your surgery. As she then tells the doctors to get that tumor out, they say: “Don’t worry, we’ll use it as a tumor marker. We’ll measure that mass on the CT scan and then we’ll watch how it is affected by the chemotherapy. Each time the chemo is working, the tumor will shrink.†Which happened as she herself states that before her third chemotherapy treatment she had a CT scan in Boulder and the tumor was gone. Fact remains that she did not have surgery at the National Cancer Institute at Bethesda before the chemotherapy started. The only surgery she had there was a lararoscopy after six chemotherapy treatments and states herself that she had one, that 40 tissue samples were taken from the lower abdomen, and all were clean. After that she had two more chemotherapy treatments, she says.

    What is important is that if you have stage I, II, or III ovarian cancer you have a higher survival rate. Stage I survival rate is 90%, stage II 60%-70%, stage III, 15-35% and stage IV means you have 5%-14% chance of survival.

    By lying about the cancer in the first place, makes me suspicious about whatever she says. You do not lie about cancer, it is worse enough if someone is diagnosed with it. There is no need to exaggerate when it comes to cancer.
  11. Texan

    Texan FFJ Senior Member


    My head was just reeling from the chemistry. It does sound like stage three to me and if she overstated the stage it was probably for attention and drama, for sure.
    By the way, I see omentum every day. I am a licensed surgical assistant so I can well understand what you are writing about, although I now avoid helping with ob/gyn procedures as much as possible. Earlier in my career though, I think I must have helped take out every uterus in our county.
  12. Elle

    Elle Member

    What a brilliant young woman you are, Texan?
  13. Texan

    Texan FFJ Senior Member


    wish I was both brilliant and young. Alas, I am middle-aged and a nut to stand for hours at a time (sometimes I work 16 hours in a day) in one place. Over heated most of the time, alot of stress, not enough pay. But I love it and couldn't think of any other career. :chicken:
  14. JustChillun

    JustChillun Member

    Even my 16 hour shift is gravy and easy. You should work with Pedes in a place where part of the missions statement of the place is to "have fun".
    Omentum can gain some momentum in the adult population.

    And...why should I believe a nonmedical person's assessment of ANYONE's health, it's so often inaccurate, PLUS, she is a liar, lying to modify how others might perceive her...
  15. Elle

    Elle Member

    Ah, but just think of all the women you have helped with this surgery, Texan. Not everyone can do this, so you have to be special, and you do sound very dedicated. I'll guarantee if you gave this up, you would miss it so badly, because this is what you were meant to do. So, long may you have the health to do it.
  16. JC

    JC Superior Cool Member

    Sylvia - did you do an thing on that internet rumblings chapter?
  17. Sylvia

    Sylvia FFJ Senior Member

    JC, I started to work on chapter 10, and my computer crashed, no worry had backups this time. After that, the problem was (maybe still is) that I was unable to put my thoughts on paper, my mind drifts off all the time. Happens at times that I lose creativity, it will come back (it is extremely hot here and that is no plus.) That with constantly being interrupted because someone starts talking to me (that drives me crazy, LOL.) So if it is somewhere in the chapters I have no doubt I will get to it, once I can write again. Do you have any idea which chapter deals with it? I do have a few chapters that survived the crash a dew years back and those are still in tact. However most I will have to rewrite again.

    Anyhow, since I was unable to keep my mind from wondering off and since I was constantly interrupted, I decided to let is rest for a couple of days. I’ll try to start writing again this evening.
  18. Elle

    Elle Member

    Sylvia and JC,

    Rumble on the Internet (Paperback) Chapter 28 Page 317

    (Hard Cover)Chapter 28 Page 303

    Sorry you have to type some of your chapters again, Sylvia.
    Takes time when there are other jobs to be done elsewhere.
  19. Sylvia

    Sylvia FFJ Senior Member

    Elle, thanks for the reference.

    Doesn't matter if I have to type them again, but yes other jobs or work or responsibilities go first and get in the way.

    JC, you want me to go through this chapter first? Last time I didn’t make it past chapter 25 first half, I was sick to the stomach afterwards. If so indicate why if you want my comments on that particular chapter?
  20. JC

    JC Superior Cool Member

    Only if you'd like to. :) No big deal at all.

    The comments on that chapter I'd like to hear from you only regard jameson.

    That chapter, from my understanding, is what motivated someone from here to contact and compell her to put another case on her site. Imho, there have been devastating consequences. Working relationships and friendships have been severed.

    But that's when I read DOI. I was disturbed by her words to the Ramsey's when I read it. And I am wondering if you were.

    I know most of you were on to her ways by then. I wasn't.
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