If John Ramsey Runs For Office.....

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Tricia, Apr 30, 2008.

  1. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    If John Ramsey Runs For Office…..

    John Ramsey is thinking of running for state rep in Michigan again. He has to file certain papers by the middle of May.

    I, along with many others from around the world would like John Ramsey to think about this before he files the paperwork to run….

    We will tell the good people of Michigan the truth about you…AGAIN.

    As we did in 2004 we will tell everyone how you promised to continue a non-profit foundation in the name of JonBenet Ramsey and yet, your promises to provide money and help to children were nothing more than hot air. Nothing more than lip service to make you look good to the public. To make it seem like you really gave a damn about helping other people. You did NOTHING with the foundation other than flat out lie about it.

    We will tell everyone how you promised that proceeds of your book would go to the foundation when in reality not one dime from your book when to the foundation. The money from your book most likely went to your favorite charity, the John Ramsey Personal Fund.
    For those in doubt about John Ramsey’s insincerity, read this:


    The foundation is just the beginning of letting your constituents know the truth about you. About what a flat out liar you are, about how you didn’t care enough to find the “real killer†of your daughter.

    We will let the people of Michigan know how you lied to the world concerning Judge Carnes decision that said an intruder killed JonBenet. We will tell everyone how Judge Carnes only had the information that your lawyer Lin Wood wanted her to see. We will show how Judge Carnes not only did not have ANY access to the police files; Carnes didn’t have ANY INFORMATION other than what Lin Wood presented. This is like allowing O.J. Simpson to present only his side in his civil trial.

    For those in doubt about John Ramsey lying concerning this case please read here:

    I can go on and on but you get the picture.

    John Ramsey, you have my word that I will personally send out press releases, contact media, buy advertising, and do whatever it take to let the people of Michigan know just what type of person you really are.

    I will be able to back everything up with facts. Just the facts. Nothing else.

    What is so ironic is we can stay totally away from the actual muder of JonBenet and still show the good people of Michigan what a liar you really are.

    We have all the information ready to go. We may have to add a few things that have happened since 2004 but most of the work is done. We are waiting to see what you decide.

    By the way, remember JonBenet? Your daughter? The one who was murdered in your home? How is the search for the “real killer†going?

    PS. Feel free to add your own ideas on what we can let the Michigan voters know about John Ramsey.
  2. Barbara

    Barbara FFJ Senior Member

    I think we should remind the good citizens of Michigan that John Ramsey is the type of man who sued the universe on behalf of Burke, collected money from many lawsuits and then had to be sued by the attorneys to get their fees

    Nice, honest guy

    I still can't believe that he'll run; just a gut feeling. Could he be that foolish?

    Personally, I hope he runs and becomes even more of a public figure, once again in the limelight and subjected to UNcontrolled questions!

    BTW, for those who may know

    If he runs for office, doesn't the public have the right to see his tax returns?

    I'd be curious to know how he has been supported all these years. Where his income is from?

    Do we know? Why_Nut?
  3. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    I keep looking for any sign of John's supposed business he operates, but he certainly has no corporation listed in Michigan. If he truly is the consultant he has on occasion said he is, he may well be operating as self-employed under his own name, which would not require registering as a business, just paying the self-employment tax.

    I will tell you what really needs to be nailed down, though, and the answers could be problematic to John. Just a few days before Patsy died, the Patsy P. Ramsey Ovarian Cancer Foundation was formed.


    According to its articles of incorporation, it was supposed to be a 501(c)(3) tax exempt organization, and was also organized as a nonprofit. But from what I have been able to find, it never did get that 501(c)(3) exemption from the IRS. This company has been the business that has received income from the sales of Patsy's artwork.


    So the question right now is, what is the deal with the relationship between John, this source of income, and the legality of calling it a foundation when it may in fact not be? Fortunately for John, the art-selling site does not represent itself as offering any tax-deductible feature for buyers, but the public ought to know the status of whatever money is flowing through this chain in the name of John's dead wife.
  4. Barbara

    Barbara FFJ Senior Member

    Good questions Why_Nut

    I see the paintings are still for sale and pretty hefty prices too

    I wonder how many people are actually buying them now

    I'm sure right after Patsy died, they probably sold some to good friends and such who wanted something of hers but do you think people are still buying them and at those prices?

    I'd be curious

    Why_Nut, do you know if John MUST disclose his tax return if he runs for office?
  5. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    He is not required to disclose his tax returns. Any candidate can do so voluntarily, and if a ground swell has the other candidates doing it, and he does not, it will probably be to his disadvantage to hold back, but if many, most, or all of the others keep theirs to themselves, no harm, no foul to John.
  6. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Why_Nut, I had totally forgotten about the Patsy Ramsey Foundation.

    Here we go again. Another questionable foundation.

    If it is not a 501(C)(3) and John hurries and makes it so he will still look bad.

    Anyone have any idea how we can nail this down like Why_Nut said?

  7. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    Oooooo, another John problem. If he has not even filed the paperwork to make the foundation, there is no such thing as hurrying. Ruling on the Foundation's status would be entirely in the hands of the IRS, and I can reasonably assume that there is no incentive on anyone's part in the agency to give John Ramsey any priority at all in ruling on whether his foundation is worthy of tax-exempt status. He can get in line behind the hundreds of thousands of other applicants and wait the 60 days or more that at least everyone else has to.

    He had better be able to provide a Employer Identification Number for this Foundation on the day he announces, it would be red meat to the local media to be able to show yet again that John says one thing ("Michigan is my home/The Foundation does good for local people") and does another ("I lost my Michigan voting rights because I was deemed a non-resident/The Foundation does nothing for local people because there is no Foundation").

    Edited to add: The IRS has added a stellar requirement. It used to be that whatever private Foundation John has pretended to found was not required to report to the public if they had income of less than $25,000. That rule changed in 2000, now he has to make available a public report every year the Foundation is active.
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2008
  8. Karen

    Karen Member

    So assuming it's been active since 2006 where can the public go read about it?
  9. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

  10. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Never forget.....


    Wednesday, March 23, 2000 - Today Show - Part 4

    COURIC: How are you all doing financially? John, you write about being fired by General Electric, NBC's parent company, when your company was sold to GE.

    Mr. RAMSEY: Mm-hmm.

    COURIC: According to GE, the company has a policy of not commenting on personnel matters. Are you working at all? Are you doing consulting work?

    Mr. RAMSEY: No, no. This is a--a pretty serious cloud over my head. I mean--I mean, it's difficult to--to expect people that--who don't know me in a business environment to...

    COURIC: To name you as employee of the month?

    Mr. RAMSEY: Yeah, that's right.

    COURIC: Are you hoping to make money from this book?

    Mr. RAMSEY: The book--any of the profits from the book will go to the foundation that we set up to honor JonBenet.

    COURIC: What is that foundation, and what--what does it do?

    Mr. RAMSEY: We want the foundation to focus on protecting America's children against predators. I would like the murder of a child to be treated in this country as a federal offense. But there's been over a thousand children murdered in their homes since JonBenet was murdered, yet we don't know about it. We should, as a country, respond to that the best that we can. We don't today.
  11. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    The following summation of Foundation activities was derived from official public legal and IRS documents. Very little activity occurred during the life of the Foundation. When Patsy lied on the May 12, 2004 LKL show about the Foundation giving $1,000 to a day-care camp, she knew the Foundation had been defunct for over four years.



    EIN: 84-1397683

    Directors: John Ramsey
    Patsy Ramsey

    Officers: President - Patsy Ramsey
    Vice President - John Ramsey
    Treasurer - Gail Heinzman

    Statement of Purpose: "To raise money for children's education and care" and to protect against "the victimization of children."



    Incorporated in April as non-profit corporation in Colorado w/IRS registration as 501(c) charitable tax-exempt organization

    Media articles and Crime Stoppers ad disclose JBR Foundation offer of $100,000 reward for information regarding "well dressed male" approaching children at Christmastime, 1996; no such funds in Foundation account to back up offer

    Per partial 990 PF dtd 08/19/98:

    Contributions received: $12,533
    Donor: John Ramsey
    Charitable contributions made: $769
    Recipient of charitable contribution: Unknown
    Market value of trust assets (including interest earned on bank account: $4,354


    Per partial 990 PF dtd 08/18/99:

    Contributions received: $2,703
    Donor: Unknown
    Charitable contributions made: $0
    Recipient of charitable contribution: None
    Purpose of charitable contribution: N/A
    Market value of trust assets (including interest earned on bank account: $5,506


    Per 990 PF dtd 08/25/00:

    Contributions received: $3,865
    Donor: Unknown
    Charitable contributions made: $2,000
    Recipient of charitable contribution: St. Johns Episcopal Church, Boulder
    Purpose of charitable contribution: "Assistance to children's programs
    and other unrestricted church use"
    Market value of trust assets (including interest earned on bank account: $6,415


    Foundation terminated per IRS

    Per 990 PF dtd 08/29/01:

    Contributions received: $1,405
    Donor: Unknown
    Charitable contributions made: $0
    Recipient of charitable contribution: None
    Purpose of charitable contribution: N/A
    Market value of trust assets (including interest earned on bank account: $7,860


    Line 8a: Foundation reports to state of Colorado but CO "does not require any report"

    Part IXA Summary of Direct Charitable Activities: "N/A"

    Part IXB Summary of Program-Related Investments: "N/A"

    Part XVI List any managers of the foundation who have contributed more than 2% of the total contributions received by the foundation before the close of any tax year (but only if they contributed more than $5,000): "NONE"

    Part XV Grants and Contributions Paid During the Year: "NONE"

    Part XVI-B Relationship of Activities to the Accomplishment of Exempt Purposes: "This section is blank because the foundation's revenue was either from gifts or from interest on its account. The foundation generated no income from activities."

    Statement 1/Form 990-PF/Part 1 Line 1/Contributions, Gifts and Grants: "No single contributor gave $5,000 or more during the year."
  12. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    So, what we want to know is ...


    Only $2,769 was donated by the JBR Foundation to charity, and $2000 of that was to the Ramsey's church.

    Total contributions to the JBR Foundation were $20,506. Subtract $2,769 from that total, and the difference is $17,737.



    The JBR Foundation folded in the year 2000 with close to $18,000 in unspent contributions. (That figure does not include interest accrued on the Foundation's bank account assets.)

    That's a pretty nice chunk of change, but I guess it takes lots of money to live high on the hog in Atlanta and redecorate a huge house in style, not to mention funding a private plane and summer home in Charlevoix.
    Last edited: May 1, 2008
  13. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Fantastic job, Woman!

    And how many books did they sell?!
  14. Karen

    Karen Member

    Thanks I've seen that but I think I meant the part about what he has to report monetarily to the public. Where is that report? :)
  15. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Thanks for asking. First, let's look at some background information taken from the www.supportramseytruth.com website:"+ramsey+foundation&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us


    JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation TRUTHS

    - The JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation was incorporated March 31, 1997

    - Where are the $15,000 PER year pledges from John and Patsy Ramsey?

    - Where are the Grants?

    - Where is the SHOES organization?

    - Where is the legislation to protect children against predators?

    - Where is the legislation to advocate child murders to a federal offense?


    JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation ~ The Mysteries ~ Facts and Fiction


    The web site link above contains 130 documented historical archived references, including links to download files on the "JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation Articles or Incorporation," "JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation ByLaws," "JonBenet Children's Application for Recognition of Exemption forms," "1997/1998/1999 and 2000 Federal Income Tax forms. In addition, the web site contains excerpts from documented testimony from both John and Patsy Ramsey in legal depositions/interviews, Quotes from John and Patsy Ramsey's book, "Death of Innocence," Newspaper article references, Quotes by and about John and Patsy Ramsey from public interviews.


    There are "130 documented references on this web page above" directly relating in one way or another to the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation. The foundation was set up as the source of funding for the $100,000 reward being offered. In the Ramsey's book, "Death of Innocence," HB page 164/165 where the Ramsey are explaining the purpose of the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Founation, they are quoted as, "Patsy and I guaranteed a reward of one hundred thousand dollars."



    Included sources of monies pledged and possible donated contributions from friends and family, corporations and the general public. John and Patsy Ramsey pledged $15,000 PER YEAR for 1997, 1998 and 1999. There are no contributions of this scale from any source in any one of the three tax years listed.

    The Ramseys friend/attorney Mike Bynum pledged profits from the resale of the Boulder house, Ramsey friend Linda McLean pledged all profits from the sale of her book when it was released August 21, 1998, Ramseys pledge profits from their hard back book released March 18, 2000 after legal expenses and ALL of the profits from their soft back (January 2001 edition) book. Ramseys book had a first printing of 300,000 copies.

    John Ramsey even said in August 2000 that one of his original plans was to sue the tabloids and donate the money to the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation. Although the Ramsey said there were no plans for fundraising, a Ramsey press release was issued in February 1997 giving a bank address in Colorado where public fund contributions could be sent. In March 26, 2000 an Internet poster who made a donation to the Foundation in Janaury received an e-mail from "PtsyR@aol.com" and signed by John Ramsey. That e-mail provided a new foundation address for donations as P.O. Box 724505, Atlanta, GA 31139.


    Included the $100,000 reward, plans to offer a grant program, plans for an outreach program called SHOES that would advocate legislation, SHOES would offer resources and rewards, SHOES would use tools to track pedophiles, SHOES would put reward funds in place, SHOES would advocate child murders to a federal offense. John Ramsey said in an online ABC Chat "In Their Own Words" on March 20, 2000 that he wants the Foundation to protect children against predators, through legislation and that he wants child murders to be a federal offense. Where are the grant programs? Where is the SHOES organization?

    Early documentation shows that the Ramsey family web site at www.ramseyfamily.com displayed press releases as well as ads and flyers the Ramseys sent out in search for their daughter's killer in the spring and fall of 1997. Later the web site was used to advertise the $100,000 reward. In December 26, 2001, Ramsey attorney, Lin Wood is quoted in the media as saying that the Ramsey family no longer has the reward money. By November 25, 2002, the Ramsey family, via their attorney Lin Wood stated they will no longer communicate with one Susan Bennett whose web site URL is listed in the Ramseys books and was on their Ramsey family web site as the main source for the garotte illustrations. By 2003 the Ramsey family web site no longer existed and the domain at www.ramseyfamily.com expired April 19, 2004.

    Patsy Ramsey said in August 2000 during the Atlanta interviews that she had never even seen the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation books or financial records. The Foundation was opened on March 31, 1997 and Patsy Ramsey is listed as the President of the Foundation.

    The "Bylaws of the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation stated, "the Board of Directors shall annually prepare a report, verified by the President and Treasurer or by a majority of the Directors, to be prescribed at the annual meeting of the Board of Directors, showing in appropiate detail the following: (a) the assets and liabilities, including the donated funds, of the Corporation as of the end of the fiscal year."

    The Board of Directors consisted of John Ramsey and Patsy Ramsey.
  16. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Now, let's see how many of the 300,000 Death of Innocence hardcover books published on March 10, 2000 had their profits donated to the JBR Foundation.

    Oh dear, this doesn't look good. I can't believe it. The JBR Foundation was terminated in 2000!


    JBR Foundation Records:


    Foundation terminated per IRS

    Per 990 PF dtd 08/29/01:

    Contributions received: $1,405
    Donor: Unknown
    Charitable contributions made: $0
    Recipient of charitable contribution: None


    How could any of DOI's profits be donated to the Foundation if it closed that same year?

    And what about the paperback version of Death of Innocence? It states that: AUTHORS' PROCEEDS FROM THE SALE OF THIS BOOK WILL GO TO THE JONBENET RAMSEY CHILDREN'S FOUNDATION."

    The paperback version of Death of Innocence was published on January 1, 2001.

    How can the proceeds from a paperback published in 2001 go to a Foundation that closed in 2000?!!
  17. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    A farce, indeed. More like a flat lie.

    It was TWO WEEKS after the show when a reporter checked with the day-care camp and found out there had been no check forthcoming from the Ramseys or any foundation. Of course, we know the JBR Foundation was defunct by then, but Patsy didn't know we knew. She was playing to the audience after Tricia's call-in question. It was a quick attempt by Patsy at CYA. When the reporter called the Ramseys to say the day-care hadn't received any funds from them, Patsy quickly wrote out a $1000 personal check and hurried it down to the day-care. She had been hoping no one would follow up on her lie about the donation from a foundation that didn't exist.
  18. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    I'm not sure if I know what web site you're asking for, but there is a lot of information regarding the JBR Foundation on ACandyRose's site at the following:

    Here are some excerpts from ACR's excellent timeline regarding the JBR Foundation and Death of Innocence.

    03-10-2000 Ramsey book has a first printing of 300,000 (RMN)

    03-18-2000 JonBenet Children's Foundation (DOI HC Pg 164-165)
    03-18-2000 SHOES Foundation Outreach program (DOI HC Pg 390)
    03-18-2000 SHOES will advocate legislation (DOI HC Pg 390)
    03-18-2000 SHOES will offer resources and rewards (DOI HC Pg 390)
    03-18-2000 SHOES will use tools to track pedophiles (DOI HC Pg 390)
    03-18-2000 SHOES will put reward funds in place (DOI HC Pg 390)
    03-18-2000 SHOES will advocate child murders/federal offense (DOIpg390)

    03-18-2000 Bookstores report sales brisk (www.tennessean.com)

    03-28-2000 LKL - John Ramsey re: Profits to legal then foundation

    05-31-2000 LKL - John Ramsey says book money going to charity

    08-29-2000 Atlanta 2000 J.R. re: Foundation no fund raising plan
    08-29-2000 Atlanta 2000 J.R. re: Denies providing address for fund raising
    08-29-2000 Atlanta 2000 J.R. re: Offended on questions re: Foundation
    08-29-2000 Atlanta 2000 J.R. re: Original plan was to sue tabloids
    08-29-2000 Atlanta 2000 J.R. re: Never solicited public funds
    08-29-2000 Atlanta 2000 J.R. re: Wrote DOI because they needed the $$
    08-29-2000 Atlanta 2000 P.R. re: Never seen foundation books
    08-29-2000 Atlanta 2000 P.R. re: Never seen foundation financial

    08-29-2000 Atlanta 2000 P.R. re: Never did any fund raising

    00-00-2000 Foundation Tax form: Revenue $1,405, Contributions $.00

    01-00-2001 DOI PB edition profits to JBR Foundation ONLY
  19. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    If ACR's website doesn't answer your question, Why_Nut gathered quite a bit of information regarding the defunct JBR Foundation. He posted some of the info here in the past. You could probably find it using the forum search engine.
  20. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

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