Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by koldkase, Mar 1, 2007.
Never underestimate anyone.
You're asking ME who killed JonBenet??? LOL I have my thoughts, based on what I observed initially when Patsy and John were on TV right after the murder (they are lying and they were involved), and mostly what I have since read here, having found this forum during the John Mark Karr debacle. I go back and forth in my mind, thinking John snapped during a molestation, or Patsy snapped for some unknown reason, maybe JonBenet wetting her bed. I don't put anything past John - he gives me the absolute creeps - and I think Patsy may have been very easily controlled and manipulated by this deceptive and egocentric man. But Steve Thomas, who has seen all the evidence and met them in person, has a theory that it was Patsy who accidently killed JonBenet, and then both of them helped with the staging. I do believe that lawyers were called during the night, to ask certain questions, and that is why the home phone and cell phone records were never obtained. I am sure that John Ramsey made a plan and carried it out, to the best of his ability, not leaving Patsy to make it up as she went along, knowing that she is a talker and likes to ramble on.
Also, JonBenet was previously molested and I believe that JR could have been the molester, although many here think it may have been Burke. Some believe it could have been Patsy, although that would be more of a harsh punishment, not for sexual gratification. I admit that the brother situation is more likely based on statistics.
John meets many of the signs of a person who is lying. You have to know what to look for. His tongue flicking out is just totally weird and I don't think it's insignificant. When you expose such an intimate part of your body during a conversation with strangers, anyone, it's very symbolic.
Maybe it's just me, but I think the TV has a funny effect that shows up people who are lying - since it enhances emotions, maybe fake emotions look more fake? You can tell the sincerity partially when the person cannot cry tears, but attempts to pretend to cry. But that is not a subtle sign...The lying look just hits me right in the face. I mean, I knew Susan Smith was lying the second I saw her on TV. Same with Michael Jackson, Scott Peterson, just about anyone - once he or she is in front of that camera, it just seems obvious. Now, I am talking about people with a conscience that KNOW they are lying. A sociopath or psychopath has a different framework than ordinary people, and may not come across as lying because in his mind, it's HIS reality that's correct.
Now, I'm going to hide and wait for the others... :couch:
Thanks HeyMom and no need to hide. I love reading your posts. What about Susan Smith made you think she was lying?
Her eyes, her face, her demeanor. She was trying to be upset, trying to do what she knew a distraught mother in that situation would say, but she had GUILTY! written all over her. True anguish comes out in a person's voice, face, motions, eyes, everything. Witness Patsy trying to pretend as if there was a killer loose in Boulder. She knew that no such person existed, so she strained to act out that warning.
Let me poke around on the 'net and send you to some other websites on analyzing someone's words and actions for lies.
Well, one BIG CLUE was that THE DAY AFTER BURYING THEIR MURDERED CHILD, they were on TV DEFENDING THEMSELVES!
Another BIG CLUE was that HOURS AFTER FINDING THEIR CHILD'S MURDERED BODY IN THEIR OWN HOME, they were HIRING LAWYERS--SEPARATE LAWYERS WITHIN DAYS.
What devastated, grieving parent whose child has been murdered is thinking about THOSE THINGS?
Blind with grief...yes. Desperate to find the killer...yes. All over LE to do so...YES.
Hiding behind lawyers and defending themselves on TV? I don't think so....
Many of us here have noticed just how John Ramsey jumped in to save Patsy Ramsey from saying too much, or saying the wrong thing when they were on camera. This was very noticeable. If anything, John Ramsey was always on guard when on TV, and he watched Patsy like a hawk.
Though you didn't ask me, I'll be glad to tell you how I knew Susan Smith was lying. She cried NO TEARS. None, nadda...the fakiest thing I'd ever seen. When they were little, my kids faked crying better than she did.
Yes, exactly!!! My younger son could give acting lessons and I can still see right through him. He always watches for the reaction to see if he needs to keep up the display or if he can quit. Ridiculous.
John Ramsey in DOI. p. 672:
"I've often told friends that if I were trying to stage this, as the police contend, I could have done a much more convincing job."
I believe John would have done a better job indeed than Patsy, whom he let run the staging show because he probably was in some kind of paralyzing shock over what had happened.
I also think John did not believe that they would get away with the staging, which is why he put no effort in it on his part ...
Thanks HeyMom, would love to read it.
It would have been so much easier for me to accept, hypothetically, that Burke had been playing at doctor, than thinking it was her father, John Ramsey. The ten year olds know much more today without going into detail.
Here is a start - this one has video clips that my computer is blocking. It isn't the one I was thinking of, but I lost all my favorites when I reinstalled XP a couple of weeks ago. I can find the old links but it will take some time, so hang with me.
Edit: Here's another one I dug up, this person writes about JR, and it's been updated since Patsy died.
In the Eyes for Lies piece on JR, she describes EXACTLY what I saw when I watched JR during the British interview for the crockumentary. Here is the text.
In Tracey's British documentary of the case, Tracey asks the Ramseys..."Did you have anything to do with the death of JonBenet?" Watch John Ramsey's face. He shakes his head up and down in a yes motion. Then he sighs.
Don't you find that perplexing??
Then his conscious mind appears to kick in, and he shakes his head in a side to side "no" motion before he speaks..."That is the most difficult question I have ever been asked...ah...I would have given my life for JonBenet and I regret...I will regret...(he continues on)...
What does Ramsey regret? Why does shake his head yes, at first and then no before he answers? Why the inconsistency? He does this again later on, too.
I read a whole article on John's reactions in this "documentary" and the author brings that up - the fact that he shakes his head yes before answering and then realizes and says I would have given my life for her. The subconscious is powerful, it gives the order of the day and if one is not careful every single minute, one's head will shake "yes" before you even realize it when answering if you murdered your child. No wonder lawyers tell their clients to shut up.
Not to mention--and I'm sorry, I found this STUNNING and VERY REVEALING and I always will--last year, when LKing asked John IF HE THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT JONBENET WOULD BE LIKE IF SHE WERE ALIVE TODAY, John PAUSED...and then said SHE WAS A HANDFUL.
And THAT WAS IT!
ON the 10th anniversary of his SIX YEAR OLD DAUGHTER BEING MURDERED...all John can think of to say about her is SHE WAS A HANDFUL?
Not a compliment IN ANY WAY, not in that context, because HE SAID NOTHING ELSE ABOUT HER!
What that said to ME was that somewhere in his psyche, John may even blame JonBenet for what happened, for how their lives changed once the horrible deed was done and the consequences set in.
Well, that's how I saw it, anyway. With Burke looking on in the studio, John's response really changed some ideas I have about what part Burke may have played in all of this. John and Burke are the two left in that family unit. They have a strong bond. Was John afraid of upsetting a delicate balance of some kind, by praising JonBenet and dwelling on WHO SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN HAD SHE NOT BEEN MURDERED THAT NIGHT?
It's something I wonder about after that Larry King show.
What a thoughtless answer KK. That wasn't even a compliment. Any child who is normally classified as a handful is a child who is difficult to control. This makes me go Hmmmmmm!
My husband and I watched that particular LKL together. When JR made the "She was a handful" remark, we just starred at each other in disbelief. What a strange thing to say.
This statement is...
One of the things that made me believe that JR could have done the deed and not looked back. As KK said, it's almost as if he was saying she deserved to die. If you loved your child, you'd term it differently - maybe, "Well, there was always excitement and activity around JonBenet, so I imagine we'd be busy all the time." or something like that. Even, "She loved attention so she might be in her high school theater program," but that would mean you were still looking back in fondness for your dead child.
None of that with JR - just that JonBenet was and would still be a "handful."
Sounds to me like some of you are thinking that John wants Patsy or anyone else, to be the red herring.
As in the possibility of JonBenÃ©t's reactions to the nightly ritual of being wakened that fateful night, at midnight, to go to the bathroom (?). That JonBenÃ©t provoked Patsy and caused her rage (?). Remember Nedra's comments to Steve Thomas. JonBenÃ©t screamed blue bloody murder if she was hauled out her bed.
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